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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cornwall => England => Cornwall Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lucymags on Monday 30 October 17 10:25 GMT (UK)
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Having managed to trace this branch of my tree back to this ancestor, I cannot seem to find anything earlier. I have checked all of the suggested links, including the list of baptisms for St Mary's Parish on the Truro.homestead site, but cannot find parents for James or a marriage record, which would lead to Jane's maiden name.
This is what I have of substance so far (definite):
GRO death record:
COCK, JAMES 78
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in TRURO Volume 05C Page 97
1841 Census (From FreeCEN):
Piece: HO107/147/15 Place: Powder -Cornwall Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Kenwyn Truro Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 27 Page: 1
Address: Castle Street
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
COCK James M 35 Builder Cornwall
COCK Jane F 30 Grocer Cornwall
COCK William M 10 Cornwall
COCK Edward M 8 Cornwall
LEACH Joseph M 5 Cornwall
LEACH Jane F 2 Cornwall
YEOMAN William M 30 Hatter Cornwall
TREGASKIS Ann F 20 Female Servant Cornwall
1851 Census:
Piece: HO107/1910 Place: St Clement -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1f
Civil Parish: Kenwyn Ecclesiastical Parish: St George's
Folio: 402 Page: 1 Schedule: 4
Address: Francis Street [note: Frances St]
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
COCK James Head M M 48 Builder (Employing 2 Men) Cornwall - Truro
COCK Jane Wife M F 47 Cornwall - Truro
COCK William Son U M 20 Printer Cornwall - Truro
COCK Edward Son U M 19 Grocer Cornwall - Truro
COCK James Son U M 17 Teacher In British Schools Cornwall - Truro
COCK Joseph Son U M 15 Painters Apprentice Cornwall - Truro
COCK Jane Dau U F 12 Cornwall - Truro
COCK John H Son U M 9 Cornwall - Truro
WEBBER Mary Servnt U F 20 House Servant Cornwall - Truro
I'm not looking for their other children's records at this time, but am trying to go backwards up the line.
This is what I have found of possible interest:
Possible marriage record, in or near St George's Parish, Kenwyn, Truro: http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=491740
Day Month 24-Jul ;Year 1829
Parish Or Reg District Kenwyn
Groom Fn James
Groom Sn COCK
Groom Condition B
Groom Rank Profession Sojourner
Bride Fn Jane
Bride Sn GILES
Bride Condition S
Witness Fn1 Susan
Witness Sn1 Giles
Witness Fn2 Edward
Witness Sn2 Cock
Note that headers for missing information (e.g. parents' names) are not included.
I then looked for Jane Giles, assuming her to be the mother of Jane, but the only Jane Giles that could be found to match in the area was born 4 Jan, 1800, baptised 1802 in the Bethesda Nonconformist church...?
And then I went looking for Jameses with fathers called Edward, then William (name of firstborn of Jane and James), but could only find one born St Keverne, the other Roche.
Question: Does "Sojourner" mean that the groom in the record above was from out of town?
Any suggestions of where to look further based on local knowledge of Cornwall records and history, or if anyone has other lookups available, would be greatly appreciated.
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There are GRO births in Truro for Jane Cock mmn Giles in 1838 and John Henry Cock mmn Giles in 1842. (Also an Edwin Cock mmn Giles in 1844. )
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I then looked for Jane Giles, assuming her to be the mother of Jane, but the only Jane Giles that could be found to match in the area was born 4 Jan, 1800, baptised 1802 in the Bethesda Nonconformist church...?
I am not following your logic here - do you mean that you are looking for a Jane Giles with a mother Susan ?
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Oh, brilliant, thanks Shaun.
(I actually wondered why the name Giles sounded familiar - I may have come across one of those records when you were helping in the London thread, or I was doing lookups for the children last week, and forgotten... Also didn't think of the ability to search by mmn. ::))
Next question - would James have been considered a sojourner in Kenwyn, if he was from Truro (which as I understand it was an adjoining parish)?
With regard to looking up Jane, I think that I just looked up based on approximate birth date... Will have to go back and double check if it mentions the mother's name.
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Does "Sojourner" mean that the groom in the record above was from out of town?
Yes.
As to the 1829 Marriage witness Susan Giles;
FreeREG has a Burial of a SUSAN Cock 25 Mar 1849, St Mary, Truro.
Age 40
Abode Kenwyn
So she might be a Sister of Jane Giles if she is the Marriage witness.
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Looks like Susan may have been related;
1841 Census
Kenwyn
Hugh Giles, 73, Hatter
Ann Giles, 35, Grocer
Susan Giles, 28, Grocer**
James COCK, 7***
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James Cock, b.13/12/1802, bp.27/3/1803 Bethesda Chapel - Independent, Truro, son of William and Sarah.
Edward Cock b.21/11/1805, bp.1/3/1806 ditto ditto
Joey Cock bp.21/7/1798 ditto ditto
William Cock bp.8/2/1796 ditto ditto
Annette
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COCK: Nov. 15th, at Frances-street, Truro, after a short illness. Mr. James Cock, builder, aged 79.
(Cornishman, 24 November 1881)
At Truro, on the 13th inst., after a long illness, Jane, the beloved wife of Mr. James Cock, builder, aged 55 years, universally respected and deeply regretted by all who knew her.
(Royal Cornwall Gazette 19 February 1858)
COCK: At the residence of his brother 1 Frances Street, Truro, April 5, Mr. William Cock, compositor, of 42, Richmond-road, Islington, London, aged 55 years, eldest son of the late Mr. James Cock, builder
(Royal Cornwall Gazette 10 April 1885)
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1841 Census James Cock c 1834 is not with his Parents but with Hugh Giles.
As you have posted James is with his Parents James/Jane Cock in 1851 Census.
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FreeREG has the Marriage of Hugh Giles 1789 Launceston
Possible Burial for his Wife 1826 Truro
Hughs Burial 1849 Truro
Both Burials have age,
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Oh, fantastic - while I was away fixing up and adding to James' and Jane's children's records, a mine of information has arrived! Thanks so much, Trish, Shaun and Annette. That will keep me busy for a while!
But looking at the GRO records for the births of Jane, John Henry and Edwin (who died in 1845, I've found), they are all recorded as being born in Truro Union. This was a workhouse (although the new building in Truro was only built later, in 1849, apparently - before that, it was at St Clement). But the census records seem to reflect a family with a shop and trade, so why would the children be born in a workhouse?
Another curiosity is that Joseph and Jane are recorded with surnames Leach in the 1841 Census (which had previously led me to believe that they were adopted and changed their names to Cock later) - but now that Jane's birth record records Cock, I can only assume that the 1841 Census was incorrectly recorded.
(I probably won't get back to this until at least tomorrow, Australian time, as it's going to take me a while to create all of the records for the people you have provided.)
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I think you'll find that all births registered in Truro from 1837 until circa 1852 come up as "Truro Union" in the GRO online index. That seems to have been the name of Truro Registration District back then.
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1841 Census Freecen has it wrong on Anc they are all Cock but the image is a bit hard to read.
I have a inkling James Parents were married 10 July 1785, St Mary, Truro
William COCK to Sally KELLA
(Sally being a another name for Sarah)
(FreeREG)
Looking at Familysearch.Org we have;
SALLY KELLOWS Cock christened 9 July 1788 Truro to William/Sally
1st child seems to be JOHN 18 Nov 1785 Truro to William/Sarah (died 31 Oct 1790)
So Sally/Sarah Kellow I would say.
There are lots of children 1785-1805 for them if I have this right!
I agree that Truro Union was a Reg District
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Another curiosity is that Joseph and Jane are recorded with surnames Leach in the 1841 Census
As Trish says, that is just a mistranscription. Always check the original image !
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This is fabulous. I have already found lots of supporting info for the (now even more expanded, having found other records!) Giles family via FamilySearch, so have created profiles for them and added all of the various details added in this thread for their and other profiles. Will start work on the Sally Kella/Kellow branch later.
Re the 1841 Census names: - yes, always worth checking the original image! (But at this point I don't have access to that.)
And yes, I see now, about Truro Union. Thanks for that.
Edit: And very nice to have those obits as well - great find!
Found some more on Sally/Sarah (although not sure about the baptism record - couldn't find anything nearer).
GRO death record:
COCK, SALLY 74
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in TRURO UNION Volume 09 Page 212
The only baptism record found which seems to fit the date (bearing in mind that she must have got married young, and already pregnant, based on birth of first child, marriage and last child):
Day Month 05-Apr; Year 1767
Parish Or Reg District Egloshayle
Forename Sarah
Surname KELLOW
Sex Dau
Father Forename William
Mother Forename Honour
(Also on FamilySearch)
- but Egloshayle is nearly 30 miles from Truro. ??
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Another, separate question.
I have just been trying something I hadn't tried before, looking up street names in FreeCEN, after finding that James' brother Edward was innkeeper on Frances St in 1841 (probably at what is now the Wig & Pen at no. 1 - and remembering that 1 Frances St had turned up on one of the other Cocks' records too, forget which now).
Is there a way to make this work? I could get no hits on Frances or Castle St. Or is there another way of looking up addresses?
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Edward was innkeeper on Frances St in 1841 (probably at what is now the Wig & Pen at no. 1
Edward Cock was landlord at The Globe Inn in 1841 (per newspaper reports)
https://i2-prod.cornwalllive.com/news/history/article364144.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/The-Globe-Truro.jpg
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Edward Cock was landlord at The Globe Inn in 1841 (per newspaper reports)
Oops - added 2+2 and made 5 again... :-[
Thanks for that, Shaun. I have now found quite a lot of articles about that establishment (as yet unread), which is just next door to the Wig & Pen (which was previously known as the Star Inn, apparently), is called the Old Globe Bistro and painted in a lurid greeny-turquoise hue: https://goo.gl/maps/BinEjM65qQ12 :o
Edit: Found a Reeds Pharmacy history page which explains the "jade green", but also, more interestingly, a very long and informative article by Tony Mansell on a number of pubs, including the Globe and the Ship/Victoria, with illustrations, in which Edward Cock and James Jr are both mentioned.
The site (Rootsweb) seems to be playing up tonight and I need a break anyway, so will be back another time...
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As to looking up addresses in censuses, there are two subscription services that allow you to do that: FindMyPast and The Genealogist. You may be able to access one of these at your local library.
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There are also Truro directories and Cornwall directories which you can search and/or download at the University of Leicester website. The directories for Truro have listings by street
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4
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Okay, thanks Shaun. I will have a look at those directories shortly. Unfortunately my library doesn't have either of those - just the Library Edition of Ancestry.
In the meantime, I have located the building which was once the Ship Inn (run by James Jr & Emily), based on Tony Mansell's long article, with Victorian photograph (http://bit.ly/2yl7nMr). The address is shown as being 3-4 Victoria Square (not Place) in that article, and by comparing photographs have worked out that it's this corner building, here: https://goo.gl/maps/nfprEc6Ukc32
Edit: I now have a suspicion that I was incorrectly remembering the no. 1 as Frances St relating to a Cock family, when it may have been 1 Castle St. I will know when I rediscover the record!
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Edward Cock was a grocer at 1 Frances Street in the 1880's
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Edward Cock was a grocer at 1 Frances Street in the 1880's
Ah, great, thanks.
In the meantime I have established that Sarah/Sally Kellow is the Egloshayle one (at least pretty sure at this point) - just need to sort out all of the children as there are some baptisms at Megavissey Independent for a Sarah and a John with parents William and Sarah... I think that Sarah Kellows Cock may have died as well and there may have been a second Sarah and a second John, but will have to check further tomorrow.
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Good luck with it all :)
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Thanks, Trish! :-)
I have charted out all of the children, but a couple of them look a bit too close in timing, and I will need to try to establish if there may have been another William and Sarah Cock who produced 3 of them in Mevagissey (and there's a 3rd John if I include the one at Mevagissey!). I won't have time to complete my investigations today, but will plough on tomorrow and post again once I have either sorted everything out or have hit another wall...
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Well I've managed to establish that there were in fact two couples called William and Sally/Sarah Cock - the ones in the Mevagissey area had 3 children, one of whom was a John, but apart from finding her maiden name (Billing), I don't know if or how they were connected, as yet. That can wait.
I've added the census info re Frances St. (- so it looks as if what is now the Wig & Pen was once a grocer, although according to the pubs of Truro article, it was also called the Star Hotel in 1864, so perhaps became a grocery store for some time before turning back into a pub). Being on the corner of Frances and Castle, I wonder if in fact the different addresses recorded for various Cocks actually refer to the same Cocks? I will have to go through those again...
I've hit the wall with the father of the William Cock who was married to Sally Kellow, as far as parentage is concerned. There are no likely baptisms in Truro; one in St Just in Roseland (1760) and one closer to Sally's neck of the woods, at St Minver (1752), but there are a lot of other potential candidates and I can't think of a way of linking any of them definitively, or at least more strongly, with my William. Will have another look with fresh eyes tomorrow. ???
Edit: A quick last note. Looking at the history of the Wig and Pen in the pubs article, it was a pub called the Star in 1864 and then again in 1933. However the Census records of 1851 and 1861 seem to indicate that there was a Cocks' grocer shop in Frances St at that time, and in 1881 Edward was a grocer at no.1. Perhaps there was more than one dwelling involved?
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Looking at Truro directories for 1883 and 1888, the Star was at 25 Frances Street, next to the Globe at 24.
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Perhaps there has been a recent renumbering of Frances Street. If you look on Google Streetview the house next to the Old Globe is clearly numbered 23, yet the Wig&Pen (the old Star) two doors away seems now to be number 1 rather than number 25.
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The Star is in some directories as 1 Castle Street (it is on the corner) so maybe that is where the confusion has crept in.
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Perhaps there has been a recent renumbering of Frances Street. If you look on Google Streetview the house next to the Old Globe is clearly numbered 23, yet the Wig&Pen (the old Star) two doors away seems now to be number 1 rather than number 25.
Yes, after seeing your earlier post, I have been studying the numbering and street views on my tablet. They're all over the place, and I suspect that you're right about the renumbering at some stage. Perhaps I'll try emailing the local council to ask if they can shed some light on the confusion.
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After studying the map and street views up and down Frances Street closely, I think that no. 1 Frances St is actually the little boarded up shop on the opposite corner, and the Wig and Pen should be either no. 1 Castle St. or No. 25 Frances.
Nos. 2-17 Frances runs up (leftwards) one side, and down the other side, 18 to 23, then the Globe (no. 24), then the Star/Wig and Pen (variously no. 25 Frances, no. 1 Castle and (mistakenly) no. 1 Frances). Now I just have to revisit the various census records to see if there are any more clues which may indicate the exact properties inhabited by the various Cocks.
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Number 13 is obviously of interest. Home of James Cock and then in later years of his daughter Jane Harry.
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Frances Street in 1883 & 1888 https://imgur.com/a/FvzW6#DYFZqeg
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Frances Street in 1883 & 1888 https://imgur.com/a/FvzW6#DYFZqeg
Ah, thanks very much for those, Shaun - those are all (facts & extracts) very useful.
I have just had another attempt at finding my way amongst those Leicester Uni directories, having been too tired to try the other night. It'll take a while to find and navigate around the best sources (and I really shouldn't have downloaded an entire directory - not necessary, I realised afterwards!), but I've found Edward at no.1 and James Sr, builder, at no. 13, in the Cornwall 1873 PO directory. Unfortunately I have not as yet managed to find either The Ship or James Jr in Victoria Place, where he was supposed to have been in January of that year... But I'll keep looking. Now that I've worked out how to access them, I'm sure that I'll find other things of interest there too - very nice to have!
Edit: I forgot to add - here's a beauty: "Cock John grocer& sugar confectioner, 1 puke street"!
Also, I realised as I was sorting things out that I had occasionally been confusing two Edwards. The innkeeper was brother of James Sr; the grocer his son. The inkeeper Edward went on to run the Duke of Cornwall after the Globe.
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It might be worth going over the ground again and checking that you are researching the right person. There are a couple of online trees which identify the parents of the James Cock who married Emily Woollcott in 1862 as William Cock (1805-1873) and Betsy Whitford (1803-1862).
Do you have the 1862 marriage certificate?
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It might be worth going over the ground again and checking that you are researching the right person. There are a couple of online trees which identify the parents of the James Cock who married Emily Woollcott in 1862 as William Cock (1805-1873) and Betsy Whitford (1803-1862).
Do you have the 1862 marriage certificate?
Aaarrrggghhh!!! I hope not! But I'm too tired to go over it all tonight, having spent many hours today scrutinising difficult text, amongst other things.
No, I don't have the marriage certificate, but the reference I've put in for the marriage is a FamilySearch one: "England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DVC-MVW : 13 December 2014), Emily Woolcott, 1862; from “England & Wales Marriages, 1837-2005,” database, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : 2012); citing 1862, quarter 4, vol. 1B, p. 460, Islington, London, England, General Register Office, Southport, England.
I'll have to have another look tomorrow. :-\
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Just a quick one here (as Emily-James are covered in the other thread) today. I rediscovered the Cornwall Online Census Project, realising how this one complements the other online census sources, in that it follows the street names. I was able to cover a bit of the history of the Ship/Victoria Inn and Victoria Place/Square there.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/cocp.html
I haven't as yet used it to explore Frances & Castle Streets further as yet, but will have a look later or tomorrow.