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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: HermitCedar on Monday 30 October 17 15:06 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I am writing here (I've been getting more active on RootsChat lately) requesting some assistance clarifying and working on one of my ancestors, William Harrison.
From the censuses I have found, assuming they're correct, he appears to be from Lincolnshire, potentially Boothby, and born around 1844-1846.
If this is the right William Harrison (if the name William is even right), I have him as married to a Mary Anne Jones (born around 1851, Llangadfan, Wales) in 1872.
Now, how I even got this far, is that I know my Great Grandfather, whose name is Robert Harrison. Robert was born 6 JUN 1889 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England, and died on 10 OCT 1945 in Liverpool North, Lancashire, England. This I know to be fact.
Also fact, is that Robert married Ethel Salter Phillips (born 16 FEB 1891, in Liverpool, Lancashire, England, and died 22 MAR 1934). They were married on Feb 29 1916 in West Derby, Lancashire. They had five children, Margaret (died young), Ethel (died young), Robert Henry, Sidney, and Arthur Edwin (who is my grandfather).
So, to go over this again, I need help confirming who the mother and father are of Robert Harrison (the one born in 1889, this Robert is the father of my grandfather). If Robert's father is the William Adam Harrison that I suspect it is, I need to confirm who is mother is (maybe Mary Anne Jones).
Once I do that, I need to confirm William Harrison and Mary Anne Jones's parents. Primarily I am focused on William's parents. I believe that they COULD be Thomas Harrison (born around 1811 in Lincolnshire) and Ann Lovelee (spelling could be different, born around the same time, also in Lincolnshire).
So, now that I dumped out a ton of information... does anyone here have any thoughts?
Thank you!!!
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Hi
Robert Harrison 1889 QtrSept West Derby Vol8b P309 has a mother's maiden name of JONES
(via GRO)
Easy job to order the certificate and confirm your man.
Ray
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Hi
Robert Harrison 1889 QtrSept West Derby Vol8b P309 has a mother's maiden name of JONES
(via GRO)
Easy job to order the certificate and confirm your man.
Ray
Hey Ray,
So, I've actually already done that, and I have found a William Harrison married to Mary Anne Jones... the only reason I was saying that I was a little unsure is because Jones is such a common name in Wales, as is Mary, so even though I've done the legwork, it always feels a little wonky based on the common names.
The real thing I need assistance with is confirming birth dates and locations of William Harrison so I can confirm his birth location and etc, to then find out who his parents were.
Thank you,
Camden
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Hi Camden,
So presumably you have 1891 /2953 /135
William A b Lincolnshire
Mary A b Montgomery, Wales and several children b Liverpool.
Heywood
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Hi Camden,
So presumably you have 1891 /2953 /135
William A b Lincolnshire
Mary A b Montgomery, Wales and several children b Liverpool.
Heywood
Hey Heywood - thanks for the reply! I do have those two names... but what do the numbers you posted represent?
Thank you,
Camden
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That’s the census reference.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:73WG-FMM
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There was a William HARRISON bap in Wellingore 20 Oct 1841. (See FreeREG)
His parents John and Mary had 3 kids later in the 1840s at Boothby, where they lived in 1851.
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I’m looking at that one too Geoff.
That family have a son William and a son Adam.
I think the marriage certificate is needed for William’s father.
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Just to say there are two Boothby's in Lincolnshire
Boothby Graffoe, and Boothby Pagnell. They are about 20 miles apart
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There was a William HARRISON bap in Wellingore 20 Oct 1841. (See FreeREG)
His parents John and Mary had 3 kids later in the 1840s at Boothby, where they lived in 1851.
Hrmm.... I thought based on his age in the censuses i've found, he would have been born a couple years later than 1841.... it seemed like 1844-1846 is the target area.
Still, though... I do wonder how I could confirm or deny this one.
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The marriage certificate ;)
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The marriage certificate ;)
Hrmm... the marriage cert for William Harrison's parents? Because i wouldn't think that would tell me when or where William was born, and I wouldn't be able to find William's birth cert until I know his parents names and when/where he was born.
Did that make sense?
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There was a William HARRISON bap in Wellingore 20 Oct 1841. (See FreeREG)
His parents John and Mary had 3 kids later in the 1840s at Boothby, where they lived in 1851.
Hey Geoff, I may be misunderstanding something here, but how do we know that Wellingore is significant? It looks like there are several William Harrisons born in Lincolnshire in 1841.
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There was a William HARRISON bap in Wellingore 20 Oct 1841. (See FreeREG)
His parents John and Mary had 3 kids later in the 1840s at Boothby, where they lived in 1851.
Another thought... from the censuses I have that I'm pretty sure William Harrison is on, it looks like his father's name is Thomas Harrison and the mother is Ann Harrison.
Not sure if you can see this link, but this is for the 1851 census... https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/8860/LINHO107_2101_2101-0023/9898179?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/67058037/person/170144113454/facts/citation/640361459729/edit/record
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The William born to Thomas and Ann has Wellingore as place of birth in 1851 and 1861. This falls under Sleaford reg district and there is a matching birth in 1853 in Sleaford ( also matching Sleaford entries for two siblings Henry b around 1849 and Thomas born around 1851). Boothby Pagnall comes under Grantham reg district. Only birth in right period is a William Burrows Harrison ( not William A /William Adam). Boothby Graffoe comes under Lincoln reg district. Three possible births - Sep 1843 ( mmn Limb - looks to have died before 1847 when another William Harrison /mmnLimb is recorded)) Dec 1843 (Mmn Jackson) and June 1844 (mmn Picksley).
There is a possible match for the William mmn Jackson in Skellingthorpe in 1851 - father George and mother Rebecca ( the other two siblings listed -Thomas (age 9) and Mary ( age 11) look to have matches in Lincoln reg district with mmn Jackson).
Isobel
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I mean the wedding certificate for William. You should get his father’s name and occupation which would help.
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I mean the wedding certificate for William. You should get his father’s name and occupation which would help.
Yes - this is true, but first I would need to confirm which William I am looking for.
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The William born to Thomas and Ann has Wellingore as place of birth in 1851 and 1861. This falls under Sleaford reg district and there is a matching birth in 1853 in Sleaford ( also matching Sleaford entries for two siblings Henry b around 1849 and Thomas born around 1851). Boothby Pagnall comes under Grantham reg district. Only birth in right period is a William Burrows Harrison ( not William A /William Adam). Boothby Graffoe comes under Lincoln reg district. Three possible births - Sep 1843 ( mmn Limb - looks to have died before 1847 when another William Harrison /mmnLimb is recorded)) Dec 1843 (Mmn Jackson) and June 1844 (mmn Picksley).
There is a possible match for the William mmn Jackson in Skellingthorpe in 1851 - father George and mother Rebecca ( the other two siblings listed -Thomas (age 9) and Mary ( age 11) look to have matches in Lincoln reg district with mmn Jackson).
Isobel
Hi Isobel!
Wow - again, you come in with a lot of wonderful information! Thank you so much!
As I've said before, I am still learning a lot about this, so I apologize if my questions seem silly/have obvious answers.
How would you recommend I take the information that you just gave me and go about confirming which William is mine?
Thanks again!
Camden
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I mean the wedding certificate for William. You should get his father’s name and occupation which would help.
Yes - this is true, but first I would need to confirm which William I am looking for.
Now this might be me but I mean the one who married Mary Ann Jones. Where have I gone wrong?
If you can’t confirm that he is your ancestor, all the searching in Lincolnshire is wasted.
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I mean the wedding certificate for William. You should get his father’s name and occupation which would help.
Yes - this is true, but first I would need to confirm which William I am looking for.
What I meant is that there are multiple William Harrisons born in Lincolnshire in the relevant period. How do I know which one is mine? Yes, I can tell later in his life by having a wife with a maiden name of Jones, but that wouldn't help me when trying to find Willam's birth/baptism information, correct?
Now this might be me but I mean the one who married Mary Ann Jones. Where have I gone wrong?
If you can’t confirm that he is your ancestor, all the searching in Lincolnshire is wasted.
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Camden -Am I correct in assuming that you have a copy of the 1889 birth of Robert Harrison which confirms his date of birth as 6th June and gives his parents as William Harrison and Mary Ann nee Jones. If so, then this dob looks to tally with the 1939 register entry for the Robert who was married to Ethel Phillips. 1891 census entry for William Harrison ( wife Mary Ann Jones) says he was born in Lincolnshire - 1901 says Boothby, Lincolnshire. Year of birth varies between 1844/1845.
Isobel
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Camden -Am I correct in assuming that you have a copy of the 1889 birth of Robert Harrison which confirms his date of birth as 6th June and gives his parents as William Harrison and Mary Ann nee Jones. If so, then this dob looks to tally with the 1939 register entry for the Robert who was married to Ethel Phillips. 1891 census entry for William Harrison ( wife Mary Ann Jones) says he was born in Lincolnshire - 1901 says Boothby, Lincolnshire. Year of birth varies between 1844/1845.
Isobel
1881 Says age 36 born Lincolns.
Occupations - Carter, Dock Lab, Carter 1871-91. Are these appropriate for Thomas's son who was apparently apprenticed to his father in 1861? :-\
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Camden -Am I correct in assuming that you have a copy of the 1889 birth of Robert Harrison which confirms his date of birth as 6th June and gives his parents as William Harrison and Mary Ann nee Jones. If so, then this dob looks to tally with the 1939 register entry for the Robert who was married to Ethel Phillips. 1891 census entry for William Harrison ( wife Mary Ann Jones) says he was born in Lincolnshire - 1901 says Boothby, Lincolnshire. Year of birth varies between 1844/1845.
Isobel
Hi Isobel,
I have a couple things...
First, I have the original copy of Robert Harrison's birth cert, confirming he was born on June 6th, 1889. It is the original copy my family was handed back in 1889, however, so it's just a reg sheet. There are no parents names. But I literally got this from the hand of my grandfather and he got it from his father's things when he passed, so we know for 100% sure that this birthday is correct.
I also have Robert Harrison's marriage cert to Ethel Salter Phillips, which confirms that Robert's father's name was William Harrison. Sadly there is no mother's name information on the marriage cert.
Thoughts?
Camden
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Camden -Am I correct in assuming that you have a copy of the 1889 birth of Robert Harrison which confirms his date of birth as 6th June and gives his parents as William Harrison and Mary Ann nee Jones. If so, then this dob looks to tally with the 1939 register entry for the Robert who was married to Ethel Phillips. 1891 census entry for William Harrison ( wife Mary Ann Jones) says he was born in Lincolnshire - 1901 says Boothby, Lincolnshire. Year of birth varies between 1844/1845.
Isobel
An apprentice dock laborer, how fun :/
Yes, dock laborer seems appropriate, but I don'tknow about the others...
1881 Says age 36 born Lincolns.
Occupations - Carter, Dock Lab, Carter 1871-91. Are these appropriate for Thomas's son who was apparently apprenticed to his father in 1861? :-\
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On Robert's marriage cert what is his occupation and address? What is father's occupation - does it say he was deceased? Who were the witnesses? All of this will help in finding the correct census information.
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On Robert's marriage cert what is his occupation and address? What is father's occupation - does it say he was deceased? Who were the witnesses? All of this will help in finding the correct census information.
Hello,
On the marriage cert it shows Robert Harrison as married at 26 years old. His job was a railway shunter (sounds like a fun time). Address looks to say "15 Thorndale Street, Everton."
His father, William Harrison, is not listed as deceased at the time, and his profession is just "laborer."
Witnesses were Henry Phillips, the father of Ethel Salter Phillips, and "the mark of William Dallorzo."
I think it says Dallorzo... kind of hard to make out.
This wedding cert is from 1916.
I don't know if this gives us much more to go on :/
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Still trying to find William in Lincolnshire. As you say there are many.
As has been written, there is a William born abt 1844, Wellingore son of Thomas and Ann in 1851 and 1861.
1871, 1881 shows William b 1844/3, Wellingore married to Fanny and living in Nottinghamshire following a marriage 1867 to Fanny Richmond. :-\
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Occupations - Carter, Dock Lab, Carter 1871-91. Are these appropriate for Thomas's son who was apparently apprenticed to his father in 1861? :-\
Sorry if has already been posted but I can’t see it
1861 2354/43/23
William Harrison 17yrs Carter b Boothby Graffoe in the household of George Cock, Boothby Graffoe.
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Still trying to find William in Lincolnshire. As you say there are many.
As has been written, there is a William born abt 1844, Wellingore son of Thomas and Ann in 1851 and 1861.
1871, 1881 shows William b 1844/3, Wellingore married to Fanny and living in Nottinghamshire following a marriage 1867 to Fanny Richmond. :-\
I just had a thought.... how could Robert Harrison's mother's maiden name be Jones?
He was born in June 6th, 1889. That puts him in the June quarter. When i go to GRO and search for Robert Harrisons born in 1889 and select the June quarter, there is NO Robert Harrison with a mother's maiden name of Jones.
Can you all see the same thing, or am I mistaken?
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1871, 1881 shows William b 1844/3, Wellingore married to Fanny and living in Nottinghamshire following a marriage 1867 to Fanny Richmond. :-\
Sorry, that is wrong ... Fanny RICHMOND married Frederick John POINTON (FreeREG). That William HARRISON married Sarah KEIGHTLEY, both marriages at Thorney (Cambs)
Fanny was nee SEWELL (according to birth of son Wm Henry in 1871. EDIT: or possibly SANDS
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The William who is in Skellingthorpe in 1851 and 1861 seems to be living with his elder brother Thomas and his wife Harriet in Chorlton in 1871. He is 27 and employed as a railway labourer, place of birth Skellingthorpe. He is listed as a lodger in the house but the head ,Thomas Harrison, is also shown as born Skellingthorpe and matches in age with brother Thomas in earlier census. In 1851 parents appear to be George and Harriet ( they are lodgers, so relationships between Harrison adults and children not shown). In 1861 they are shown as children of William Harrison and Harriet ( almost certainly the same Harriet as in 1851).
Isobel
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1871, 1881 shows William b 1844/3, Wellingore married to Fanny and living in Nottinghamshire following a marriage 1867 to Fanny Richmond. :-\
Sorry, that is wrong ... Fanny RICHMOND married Frederick John POINTON (FreeREG)
Is it? Oh sorry. I thought I found a child with mmn Richmond. I will go back. However, there is still a William married to Fanny :)
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The William who is in Skellingthorpe in 1851 and 1861 seems to be living with his elder brother Thomas and his wife Harriet in Chorlton in 1871. He is 27 and employed as a railway labourer, place of birth Skellingthorpe. He is listed as a lodger in the house but the head ,Thomas Harrison, is also shown as born Skellingthorpe and matches in age with brother Thomas in earlier census. In 1851 parents appear to be George and Harriet ( they are lodgers, so relationships between Harrison adults and children not shown). In 1861 they are shown as children of William Harrison and Harriet ( almost certainly the same Harriet as in 1851).
Isobel
Hey Isobel,
Did you see my last post?
.....
I just had a thought.... how could Robert Harrison's mother's maiden name be Jones?
He was born in June 6th, 1889. That puts him in the June quarter. When i go to GRO and search for Robert Harrisons born in 1889 and select the June quarter, there is NO Robert Harrison with a mother's maiden name of Jones.
Can you all see the same thing, or am I mistaken?
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He was most likely registered in the September quarter.
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He was most likely registered in the September quarter.
Why would he be registered in the September quarter if he were born in June?
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He was most likely registered in the September quarter.
Why would he be registered in the September quarter if he were born in June?
You are allowed 42 days to register a birth.
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He was most likely registered in the September quarter.
Why would he be registered in the September quarter if he were born in June?
You are allowed 42 days to register a birth.
In that case, there are 2 prospects in the September quarter. One Robert Harrison born with MMN as Jones, and one as Stewart.
How do I confirm Jones is the correct one?
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I really think you need to obtain the Sept quarter West Derby certificate where the mmn is Jones to ascertain if the birthdate is 6th June and parents are William and Mary Ann nee Jones. As others have said it is not unusual for Births in the latter part of one quarter to be registered in the next.
Isobel
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In that case, there are 2 prospects in the September quarter. One Robert Harrison born with MMN as Jones, and one as Stewart.
How do I confirm Jones is the correct one?
There are records for Robert Stewart Harrison - census, marriage and death.
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In that case, there are 2 prospects in the September quarter. One Robert Harrison born with MMN as Jones, and one as Stewart.
How do I confirm Jones is the correct one?
There are records for Robert Stewart Harrison - census, marriage and death.
Robert S HARRISON (11 in 1901) appears to be son of Thomas (48) and Ann J (43) - married 1876 L'pool
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I really think you need to obtain the Sept quarter West Derby certificate where the mmn is Jones to ascertain if the birthdate is 6th June and parents are William and Mary Ann nee Jones. As others have said it is not unusual for Births in the latter part of one quarter to be registered in the next.
Isobel
Just ordered the PDF version via GRO. Hopefully it arrives within a few days!
Thanks again!
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In that case, there are 2 prospects in the September quarter. One Robert Harrison born with MMN as Jones, and one as Stewart.
How do I confirm Jones is the correct one?
Okay, so it's likely then that Jones is the correct MMN for Robert, as I know William is his father, not Thomas.
There are records for Robert Stewart Harrison - census, marriage and death.
Robert S HARRISON (11 in 1901) appears to be son of Thomas (48) and Ann J (43) - married 1876 L'pool
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Re Lucy HARRISON aged 14 in 1901 ... mother was nee JONES (Q1 1887)
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Good luck with the certificate.
If it is correct, then the marriage certificate of William Harrison and Mary Ann Jones will help with their fathers and occupations.
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Occupations - Carter, Dock Lab, Carter 1871-91. Are these appropriate for Thomas's son who was apparently apprenticed to his father in 1861? :-\
Sorry if has already been posted but I can’t see it
1861 2354/43/23
William Harrison 17yrs Carter b Boothby Graffoe in the household of George Cock, Boothby Graffoe.
Great find Heywood -completely missed this one. Probable match with a William Harrison born Boothby who is listed in Bootle in 1871, occ Carter. This is a much more likely match than the Skellingthorpe one, who can probably be discounted. Wonder where this William was in 1851.
Isobel
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Isobel,
Possibly the family with parents John and Ann mentioned in replies #6 and 7.
They have a William and an Adam :-\
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Possible. Age is just a little off all the other census entries, which suggest he was born 1844/45.
Isobel
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I wondered more about Adam rather than William. I can’t see him later but it is all speculation. I have no evidence.
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Found Adam Harrison in 1861 2356/53/3 so probably puts him out of the picture. He is a Waggoner, living in Nocton, Lincs.
He is mistranscribed on one site as Hansson.
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I don’t want to complicate matters anymore but thought I would just post this to bear in mind when you start searching for Robert’s father.
You know from Robert’s marriage that his father was William.
I had a quick look for other Harrisons in West Derby district
1871 3802/80/25
Thomas Harrison 32yrs Carter b Wellingore
1871 3832/56/14
William Harrison 26 yrs Carter b Boothby. *previously mentioned as yours
But there is also this man
1871 3802/79/24
He is transcribed as William Harbeson 28yrs b Wellington, Lancashire
But it should read Harrison and Wellingore -although it still shows as Lancashire. His wife though shows Lincolnshire and there is a marriage.
Here is the F S link
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBN3-DJJ
He is a Drayman so it is interesting that Adam Harrison mentioned earlier is a Waggoner and there are a couple of Williams who are a Carter and a Drayman - similar occupations.
Heywood
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I don’t want to complicate matters anymore but thought I would just post this to bear in mind when you start searching for Robert’s father.
You know from Robert’s marriage that his father was William.
I had a quick look for other Harrisons in West Derby district
1871 3802/80/25
Thomas Harrison 32yrs Carter b Wellingore
1871 3832/56/14
William Harrison 26 yrs Carter b Boothby. *previously mentioned as yours
But there is also this man
1871 3802/79/24
He is transcribed as William Harbeson 28yrs b Wellington, Lancashire
But it should read Harrison and Wellingore -although it still shows as Lancashire. His wife though shows Lincolnshire and there is a marriage.
Here is the F S link
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBN3-DJJ
He is a Drayman so it is interesting that Adam Harrison mentioned earlier is a Waggoner and there are a couple of Williams who are a Carter and a Drayman - similar occupations.
Heywood
Sorry, I may have missed this... what does Carter mean?
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Sorry, I may have missed this... what does Carter mean?
A man with a horse and cart who transported stuff
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Sorry, I may have missed this... what does Carter mean?
A man with a horse and cart who transported stuff
Ah, okay, thank you!
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The William and Sarah in 1871 ...
This marriage
Marriages Dec 1867
HARRISON William Lincoln 7a 1033
MINGS Sarah Lincoln 7a 1033
Sarah MINGS was bap in Coleby in 1844 (FreeREG)
EDIT: William (son of John) to Sarah (dau of William) at Lincoln (St Peter in Eastgate), 15 Oct 1867.
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Thanks, that’s the one I saw Geoff. They had two daughters who both died as babies before 1871.
Thanks good re the marriage - Father John.
I couldn’t see them later though.
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I don’t want to complicate matters anymore but thought I would just post this to bear in mind when you start searching for Robert’s father.
You know from Robert’s marriage that his father was William.
I had a quick look for other Harrisons in West Derby district
1871 3802/80/25
Thomas Harrison 32yrs Carter b Wellingore
1871 3832/56/14
William Harrison 26 yrs Carter b Boothby. *previously mentioned as yours
But there is also this man
1871 3802/79/24
He is transcribed as William Harbeson 28yrs b Wellington, Lancashire
But it should read Harrison and Wellingore -although it still shows as Lancashire. His wife though shows Lincolnshire and there is a marriage.
Here is the F S link
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBN3-DJJ
He is a Drayman so it is interesting that Adam Harrison mentioned earlier is a Waggoner and there are a couple of Williams who are a Carter and a Drayman - similar occupations.
Heywood
Hello everyone!
So, I received the birth cert for Robert Harrison.
I am now extremely confused....
So, I have that Robert Harrison was born on June 6th, 1889, in Everton North, Liverpool. His mother is listed as Mary Ann Harrison nee Jones.
His father, however, is listed as "Adam Harrison." Not William Adam or anything else, just Adam Harrison.
On his wedding cert, where he married Ethel Salter Phillips, which I know to be fact, Robert Harrison's father's name is William Harrison.
The William Harrison I found in the censuses always appeared to be William Adam Harrison as his full name... so I don't know if I should consider this accurate or false.
What do you all think about this?
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Hello again,
I think you need to get the 1872 marriage certificate for William and Mary Ann to see who is named as father to William and his occupation - sorry it’s more expense. :-\
Heywood
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At least you have now confirmed the June 6th birthdate which does tally with the 1939 register entry for 'your' Robert.
Isobel
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At least you have now confirmed the June 6th birthdate which does tally with the 1939 register entry for 'your' Robert.
Isobel
This is true - at least I got that!
I'm trying to figure out how to confirm this is the right robert... the ages between the marriage cert and the birth cert tally up correctly... and I have found many copies of the marriage cert for William Harrison and Mary Ann Jones.... but the birth cert for the Robert I ordered has Adam Harrison as his father.
Does this sound like it could be relevant to the William Adam Harrison I found on the censuses?
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What about occupation and address for Robert and siblings?
Does the certificate tie in with any census information.
Where have you found the copies of the marriage certificate for William and Mary Ann?
I haven’t seen one online. There are a couple of published trees but none have a copy of the certificate.
People with two names often interchange them and you have William using just one name and then both.
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Given that all other facts tie up and William who was married to Mary Ann Jones does seem to have the middle name Adam ( per 1911 census), I think that the balance of probabilities is that Robert is the son of the William Harrison and Mary Ann Jones who married in 1872.
Isobel
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Think this is the marriage of Robert's sister Lucy Aug 20 1913 to Edwin Mason Jones in Everton- her father is showing as Adam Harrison, a carter.
William