RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: NicolaasMars on Wednesday 01 November 17 21:16 GMT (UK)
-
Mathew PAREL was born on 13 Aug 1880 in New Ross, Co. Wexford, out of wedlock. His mother was Margaret Parel/Parle, born 1855.
Mathew was baptized RC in St James Church, Templetown, Co. Wexford, the following day. There both his parents are given: his father was William Duffin, born 1861.
William Duffin and Margaret Parel married on 16 Aug 1882 in New Ross, and had later eight more children.
I have been unable to find out what happened to their first child, Mathew Parel. I do not find him in the 1901 and 1911 census. Family lore has it that he emigrated to the USA, but so far I have been unable to trace him there.
All help is welcome.
Nicolaas
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Ballyhack/Saltmills/1797815/
-
No, that cannot be "my"Mathew Parle, as he is the son of the parents mentioned in the census record, rather than of William Duffin and Margaret Parle.
-
Was wondering if they adopted him..... Is there a birth registered for this one?
-
Ah, there is an interesting theory. I had not thought of that possibility!
I will try to find out whether I can get his birth certificate. (I do have that of "my" Mathew.)
Sorry for dismissing too quickly your post.
Nicolaas
-
Birth results for Parle from 1877 to 1890 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kzg/ nothing
-
There were 2.....
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02916/2068406.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02849/2044148.pdf
-
Yes. The 1880 one is my Mathew; natural son of Margaret.
The other, 1879 one, is not the one in the 1901 census! His father is also Matthew, not Nicholas.
-
Ah, there is an interesting theory. I had not thought of that possibility!
I will try to find out whether I can get his birth certificate. (I do have that of "my" Mathew.)
Sorry for dismissing too quickly your post.
Nicolaas
Certs are online...
-
cert
.
.
-
Birth, Marriage and Death results for Mathew Parel
Displaying results 1 - 2 of 2. already posted, no marriages
-
According to the 1911 census, the couple Nicholas Parle and Catherine were married 40 years. (That might be a slight overstatement, as I think I found their marriage in 1865.) They had 7 children born, of whom 3 living in 1911.
Was there an official adoption procedure in Ireland in 1880, leaving a paper trail?
-
Often a mother would pass a baby off as her own if daughter was pregnant or older married sister...
-
Wouldn't he be using his father's surname?
Or rather he might be using...
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Ballyhack/Saltmills/1797815/
Not him, here's the birth, age in 1901 slightly understated:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03066/2124049.pdf
-
Wouldn't he be using his father's surname?
Or rather he might be using...
All Mathews, RC age 20 -/+ 5 yrs, born Wexford, on 1901 census http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kzh/
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Ballyhack/Saltmills/1797815/
Not him, here's the birth, age in 1901 slightly understated:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03066/2124049.pdf
Yes I know, have posted that there were 2 and links to them
-
The Nicholas Parle and Catherine who in the 1901 census are given as the parents of a Mathew Parle, were not the parents of Margaret Parle, the mother of "my" Mathew Parle. Margaret's parents were Michael Parle and Catherine Meyler. That leaves the possibility of Catherine being an older sister of Margaret open. (I do not have the other children of Michael and Catherine prior to 1855. ) However, Michael and Catherine were born in 1831 and 1839, so to late to be the parents of the Catherine who married Nicholas Parle. [I hope this all still makes sense...]
Nicolaas
-
Have you searched the parish registers? they start 1830
-
Not yet, but will do.
Nicolaas
-
Hi Nicolas, my name is Andrew Parle. My Dad's Dad was Mathew Parle from Wexford. Are you related to the Parle family? Andrew
-
Welcome to RootsChat, AP :)
Nicolaas was online here just a few days ago, so he should reply to you soon.
Best of luck!
KG
-
No, I am not directly related to Matthew Parle/Parel, but my daughter-in-law is slightly, hence my interest! She is a descendant of Matthew's sister (?) Margaret Duffin, born 03-02-1890 New Ross, Co. Wexford.
I must admit that I have not yet followed up on the suggestions given earlier on this very helpful forum. If you have more information on the Parle family, that would be most welcome.
(I am a Dutchman, living in the Netherlands, and overwhelmed by the difficulties of Irish genealogy.)
Nicolaas Mars
-
This whole thread is almost certainly operating on an incorrect basis.
There was no Mathew Parle. He was Mathew Duffin.
His parents married. That legitimated him in cannon law.
Even if they had not married, the common practice in Ireland was to call bastards by their father's name, despite the contrary being mandated by English law.
-
Do you have a document about Matthew's "legalization" by his parents? And do you know when and where he died? I would be happy to close this gap in my daughter-in-law's family tree!
Nicolaas
-
Do you have a document about Matthew's "legalization" by his parents? And do you know when and where he died? I would be happy to close this gap in my daughter-in-law's family tree!
Nicolaas
You don't seem to follow.
1. In canon law, the fact that his parents subsequently married automatically legitimated him. No document required.
2. In any case, the "custom of the country" (at least for Catholics) was to call bastards by their father's surname, the provisions of English law not withstanding.
-
Thank you for the clarification.
And do you know when and where he died?
-
Thank yopu for the clarification.
And do you know when and where he died?
No idea!
That is a big ask. Much easier to work backwards than forwards!
If he died in Ireland, death might never have been registered. Lots weren't.
-
Note - my previous comments assume that he stayed with his mother, and later his parents.
It is also entirely possible that he may have been given up for adoption in the period before his parents married, or that he was put in an institution. In which case he could have become almost anyone. No formal adoption rules at the time, as far as I am aware.
-
I just looked at the Templetown parish register.
William's surname is clearly stated to be Duffin, not Parle. I think this is definitive.
-
I just looked at the Templetown parish register.
William's surname is clearly stated to be Duffin, not Parle. I think this is definitive.
Meant Mathew, of course, not William.