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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ju1 on Thursday 02 November 17 13:03 GMT (UK)
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On the 1911 census for
George Cragg b1851 Liverpool
Margaret Cragg b1847 Dublin
living at 4 Moss yard Lancaster
It states they had 10 children born alive but only 2 living!
on previous census it shows them to have -
Robert Cragg 1878 Liverpool
Agnes Cragg 1882 Liverpool
George Cragg 1881 Liverpool
Robert must die as they have George with them in 1911 and Agnes is alive and married with her own family.
So I am missing 7 births and deaths that all must have fallen between census years.
How do I find them?
Thanks Ju
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Have you tried using the GRO index which gives mothers maiden names for the births
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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Hi,
No, I didn't know that it was searchable, thanks, I'll have a look :)
Ju
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Looks as if the mother's maiden name is Cross
CRAGG, ROBERT CROSS
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 581
CRAGG, GEORGE HENRY CROSS
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 546
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Sorry, yes I meant to put that, it is indeed Cross.
I have Found a -
Henry 1855
Alexander 1888
George 1892
All born West Derby which fits.
I need to look for their deaths now.
Still missing 4 kids though
Ju
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Alexander looks promising b1880 West Derby mother Cross as their is a death for him 1880 aged 0
Not found deaths for the others though.
ju
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It is possible that, although the 1911 asks for children born alive, she may have given birth to still born children, but still (naturally) have counted that as giving birth. However, their birth and deaths would not be recorded on the GRO register.
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Yes that's a good point, though 8 is a pretty high number.
I have still only found one potential birth and death and that is Alexander who fits and Margarets dad was called alexander too.
I can't find any more as yet.
Ju
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I had a look as well and could only find the ones you have. When did they marry as that may give a starting point?
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They married in 1877
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The only 5 births I can see are:
Robert 1878
George Henry 1881
Agnes 1882
Alexander 1888
George 1892
You have George as being born 1881, did you mean abt 1891? There is this death
Deaths Mar 1882
CRAGG George Henry 0 W Derby 8b 409
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Hi,
there seems to be a George Henry and a george.
On 1881 census they have a Robert and George henry with them, George Henry is 1 mth old and so that death must be his in 1882.
In 1901 census there is a George, he is 9 so yes 1892. I think i mixed the 2 up in my records.
So the living children in 1911 are Agnes and George, we have found deaths for George henry and Alexander but not for Robert.
That still leaves 5 kids to find.
puzzling!
Ju
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Date slightly out but a possible?
ROBERT CRAGG
Age 6
Death quarter 2
Death year 1886
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B
Page 380
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Do you have
James Cragg baptism 4 Nov 1890 St Margaret, Toxteth Park - parents George Cragg, coal carter & Margaret. Address is 80 Lovat St, same as for the baptism of George in 1892
Added: GRO have messed up the registration
CRAGG, JAMES mmn CROSS
Q4 1890 Volume 08B Page 95 - no district listed
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death
CRAGG, JAMES
age 0
Q4 890 LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 398
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Oh thanks, no i didn't have James, yes that looks promising as does the Robert death. I didn't have a George either.
Thanks for helping!
ju
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James buried Walton Park 9 Nov 1890 - so indeed a short life
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Well found, Mabel. So that's 6 births found, 4 to go!
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There's this one but Rochdale, so probably not connected
CRAGG, EDWARD CROSS
1890 S Quarter in ROCHDALE
Volume 08E Page 79 Order
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There's this one but Rochdale, so probably not connected
CRAGG, EDWARD CROSS
1890 S Quarter in ROCHDALE
Volume 08E Page 79 Order
Also probably too close to James b Q4 the same year!
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Thank you so much for finding James :)
It seems so tragic that 8 out 10 children died, I will send for all their death certificates once I find them all.
So far apart from Robert who was 6 the others don't seem to have made it past 3mths.
I'm not sure about the Rochdale birth (Edward) 1890, because James was born that year and the location doesn't fit but I'll keep a note of him and maybe send for his birth cert if we don't manage to find the other 4 children,
Thanks everyone.
Ju
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James buried Walton Park 9 Nov 1890 - so indeed a short life
I looked for a Cragg grave on the Walton park online search but no Craggs at all.
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James buried Walton Park 9 Nov 1890 - so indeed a short life
I looked for a Cragg grave on the Walton park online search but no Craggs at all.
Ancestry index it as Walton Park - the record book says burials at the parochial cemetery, Rice Lane, Walton, Liverpool. same or different cemetery? The abode given is Ladies charity, Brownlow Hill. Age 6 days. Note by the side says C54, 4/- J70. All entries on the page say J70 - communal grave perhaps?
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Thank you so mush.
Yes Walton park and Rice Lance are the same cemetary.
Ladies Charity, Brownlow hill was a materity hospital/service.
Do you have a link to the information?
Could have been a paupers grave.
Ju
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It may take a while to go through all the years recorded - but have a look through the Newspaper Death notices on here
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/merseysidedeathsmain.html
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ADDED - only one possible at Toxteth Park Cemetery http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/dbase/toxsearch.php
check on Gertrude Cragg buried 18th May 1886 on that list
I will have a look on Liverpool Necropolis as well ..
added- NO Cragg buried at Liverpool Necropolis Cemetery
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Thank you so mush.
Do you have a link to the information?
Ju
it's on Ancestry. My suspicion is paupers' grave as well, given the birth/death was in the local charitable maternity hospital.
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It may take a while to go through all the years recorded - but have a look through the Newspaper Death notices on here
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/merseysidedeathsmain.html
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ADDED - only one possible at Toxteth Park Cemetery http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/dbase/toxsearch.php
check on Gertrude Cragg buried 18th May 1886 on that list
I will have a look on Liverpool Necropolis as well ..
added- NO Cragg buried at Liverpool Necropolis Cemetery
Nothing that matches on these but thanks for sharing the links.
Ju1