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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Arnaud Gabet on Monday 06 November 17 20:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am french and I search informations about the german origins of Rudolf Felton who was married the 8 of february 1863 at Queenstown with Ellen Sullivan. Thank you very much for your answers.
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The marriage is in the Cobh parish register for 18th April 1863. (Cobh is the modern name for Queenstown). The couples witnesses were John Tohan & Mary Coughlan. See:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633020#page/100/mode/1up
That limited amount of information is fairly typical for a Roman Catholic marriage at that time. No parents names, no addresses, ages etc. No easy way of identifying his origins that I can think of.
Family in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban_No__1/East_Hill/1138201/
Carl Rudolph Felton died 2.3.1906 in Queenstown:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05566/4562805.pdf
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Hello,
I am french and I search informations about the german origins of Rudolf Felton who was married the 8 of february 1863 at Queenstown with Ellen Sullivan. Thank you very much for your answers.
Hello Arnaud & welcome to Roots chat. As you are researching Rudolfs german origins this post would probably be better suited to the European board the Moderator may move it for you.
Do you have Rudolf & Ellens marriage record if so does it give Rudolfs fathers name>
Was Rudolf in the Military or Navy? There will not be a Civil Marriage Cert for the couple as Civil Registration wasnt introduced in Ireland until 1864. Rgds
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Elwyn,
Thank you for your answer.
Do you know when Ellen Sullivan was dead ?
Can I find list of german migrants in Ireland to know the origins of Rudolph Felton ?
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Arnaud,
Some Irish death certificates are available to see free on-line, on the Irishgenealogy site that has Carl Rudolph’s death. However deaths before 1891 are not yet available free.
There are 2 Ellen Felton deaths in the period 1864 to 1901, in Cork, in the irishgenealogy site indexes. If you want the full details you need to send off for a copy of the death certificate.
One was registered Cork, Jan – March 1886. Volume 5, page 170, age at death 45. The other was Cork, Jan – March 1885. Volume 5, page 100. Age 48. The information is very similar in the two entries, and I think it may be the same death recorded in the indexes twice, by mistake. By cross referencing to another source, I think the correct year of death was 1885.
You can order a photocopy of the civil death certificate from GRO Roscommon for €4 (euros). http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx
You have to download and print off the form. Then either post or fax it. You can’t e-mail your order to them. However if you want them to e-mail the cert to back to you, they will do that, so tick the relevant box.
I noticed this family in the 1911 census. I suspect it’s connected to your family:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/Ballyvoloon__part_of__Ileen_Terrace_/405715/
There’s no list of German migrants to Ireland in the 1860s (or earlier). Immigration procedures then were next to non existent. If Rudolf ever applied for citizenship (and it would have been British Citizenship then as Ireland was not yet a separate nation) there might be a file in the National Archives in London. You could check there. But he was under no obligation to have applied for citizenship. He might just have remained a resident German citizen. There would be no record of that now, so far as I am aware.
I looked to see if Rudolf left a will, but he does not appear to have done so.
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Thank you Elwyn for these new informations.
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Bonsoir Arnaud,
The registers for one of the cemeteries in Cobh ( Queenstown) are available to view online.
They are available on the www.corkarchives.ie website. This is the link to the page
http://www.corkarchives.ie/media/UDC-CO-CY-1879-1907_Part10.pdf
( if this does not work use the next one below and scroll down to section that has March 2nd 1906)
http://www.corkarchives.ie/collections/onlinedigitalarchive/cobhqueenstowncemeteryrecords/
Details
Carl R Felton Died March 2 1906 ( although it looks like 1904 possible just the writing)
Male
Aged 73 Years
Widower
Died from Paralysis
Place of Birth Germany
Religion Catholic
Last place of Residence Queenstown
Burial March 4th 1906
Burial Plot
Section A Plot 10 Row 22
Are you an ancestor of this man? Approximate Birth Year 1833 . You might find more information if you could locate his birth details from Germany.
The Cobh Library does have transcriptions of all of the headstones in this cemetery which is known as "Old Clonmel Cemetery, Cobh". They don't have an email address - I will see if I can contact them by phone and maybe get the transcription for you tomorrow.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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This is a better form for ordering Certs
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/images/content/GRO_Documents/Form_for_DAHG_site.pdf
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Thank you for all these informations, the certificate of death of Carl Rudoph Felton said he was "clerk". What is this job ? What is the french traduction of this job ? Thank you very much for advance.
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travailleur de bureau
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thank you for this proposition, so he was probably "secrétaire"
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Is it possible to obtain a photography of the tum of Carl Rudolf Felton in the cemetery of Cobh
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Yes,
I tried to contact the Cobh Library ( Bibliotheque) and discovered it has been closed.
I also tried to contact the local studies section ( Cork History) at our Cork County library without success.
If you email them localstudieslibrary@corkcoco.ie and ask them
" If they have the records of the Old Church cemetery in Cobh and if they have ask them if they could give you a translation for the headstone ( transcription d'une pierre tombale) of Karl Rudolf Felton who died 1906. "
Peut-être que vous n'en avez pas besoin de lat transcription!
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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I answered "Yes" to your question about Carl working at a bureau!
This is the map of the Old Church cemetery. Carl is buried in Section A
http://www.visitcobh.com/index.php/old-church-cemetery/
It is possible that he does not have any headstone!!!
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Note also that in 1901 Rudolph’s occupation was “retired interpreter” – interpreter qui a prendre sa retraite, or something like that.
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https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/639651
Some headstone photos from Old Church Cemetery Cobh, unfortunately none listed for C. Felton.
You could go through them and see if he is included in a grave for Sullivan or O'Sullivan - as he might have been buried with his wife's family????
No transcriptions on this site.
There is a section if you want to request a photo of the headstone
https://www.findagrave.com/photo-request/search/cemetery/639651?name=Old%20Church%20Cemetery&page=1#pr-8049654
As I said maybe there isn't any headstone for Carl Rudolf.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Rudolph FELTON is shown as a Water Clerk in 1882 when a witness at a court case
He is shown as a witness quite often and once described as an interpreter.
This was in September 12 1873 in Cork. The case against Johann Mueller (a painter) charged with murder in Germany of Anton Robins (a carpenter) and remanded for extradition.
He is also described as a Water Clerk on his children's birth records
1864 Mary - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03621/2336688.pdf)
1865 Francis
1867 Ida
1868 Margaret
1870 Robert
1873 Florence
1874 Charles Carl
1877 Ellen
1879 William
1881 Edward
all on www.irishgenealogy.ie
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Hi Arnaud,
I contacted the Cork County Library today and they sent me a very quick reply.
Carl Rudolf Felton is not in any of the transcriptions however he is listed as being buried there so
I was right in thinking that they probably did not have any headstone. ( Je pense qu'il ny a pas de pierre tombale).
He is in a list of burials and the other people listed as being buried in
Section A Plot 22 Grave 10
Cinq personnes sont enterrées dans cette tombe -
C. Felton ( Carl Rudolf known as Rudolf)
C. Felton ( Carl R Felton d aged 17 in 1919)
C. Felton ( probably Carl Rudolf's son he died in 1947 aged 77)
J. Felton
W. Felton
The first C. Felton's is your Carl Rudolf who died in 1906
The second C. Felton is probably Rudolf's grand son - Carl Rudolf Felton who died aged 17 on 12th September 1919. he was an apprentice ( a trainee - learning a trade) at the Cobh Dockyard. He died at Queenstown hospital. His address at death is 8 Cloyne Terrace, Cobh
Charles Felton - Rudolf's son is the third person with the initial C buried there.
His death cert here -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05141/4416300.pdf
The third C. Felton is probably Charles ( Carl Rudolf's son) he died at the Bon Secours Hospital Cork and his address at death was 11 Hawthorn Terrace Cobh Co. Cork. He died 6th September 1947 aged 77 years His death certificate below -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1947/04577/4209890.pdf
J. Whelton - No information on him
The W. Felton was Carl Rudolf's son who died aged 14 years on 21st September 1893
his death cert - address when he died was 18 East Hill Cobh son of Rudolf Felton a water clerk
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05990/4703828.pdf
Avez vous trouvez le ceritificate de naissance pour Carl Rudolf ??
Es tu un cousin de Carl Rudolf?
Bonne Chance
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Thank you Mary for all your informations and numerous resarchs ! I search genealogy for a descendant of Carl Rudolf Felton (1833-1906). He was the father of Florence FELTON (1874 Quuenstown-1935 Calberwell) who was married in july 1892 (i havent'got the act) at Queenstown with Edward John MAC FARLANE (1868 Athlone Irlande-1947 Mid Eastern Surrey), sergeant-major in the Manchester Regiment and who became Lieutenant-colonel during the first world war, father of Charles William (1898 Aden, Arabia), captain in the Warwickshire Regiment married in France in december of 1919 !
I don't know the site of birth of Carl Rudollf FELTON about 1833 in Germany. I know only he was married in1863 at Quuenstown with Ellen Sullivan.
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You are welcome.
This is the marriage certificate for Florence and Edward. He was a British soldier based at Kinsale Barracks.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/5300497579653?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dflorence%26namel%3Dfelton%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26type%3DM%26submit%3DSearch
Mary
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Thank you Mary for this information very important for me.
Is the father of EDward John : Robert Henry Mac Farlane alived beacause i think he was dead at Belfast in 1891 ?
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Before you proceed any further i dont think this man
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPTQ-P68
is the same man on the marriage certificate
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10646/5878793.pdf
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Before you proceed any further i dont think this man
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPTQ-P68
is the same man on the marriage certificate
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10646/5878793.pdf
Hi Dathai Edward MacFarlane gives his place of birth as Westmeath Ireland in English censuses in the households are Florence (wife) & children :) 1901 family are in Portland Dorset 1911 in Wood Green Middlesex
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Birth for Helen marguerite MacFarlane 31st July 1902 parents Edward MacFarlane & Florence Felton Residence Cork Barracks.
Edward & Florence had 5 children born & 2 living in 1911 a son Charles born in Aden 1898 & Helen as above details
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yes i just found Helen's birth with father Edward John
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01894/1735954.pdf
strange how both father and son are different on marriage cert
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Mary,
I am sure Edward John Mac Farlane is the son of Henry Mac FARLANE(FARLAND) and Anne Mc MULLEN, and I know Henry Mac FARLANE, pensionnar of army in 1875 live to Seapont Terrace, Ringsend, Dublin (cf. Mariage on 12.07.1875 of his girl Jane MAC FARLANE, born 18.03.1855 Berwick upon Tweed) with Sidney Churchill. But I dont'know the real date of death of Henry MAC FARLANE(FARLAND). Thank you for your help.
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Birth registered in Athlone Co Westmeath for a Lucy Helena MacFarlane 16th Feb 1872 address Northgate Street Athlone. Parents Henry MacFarlane Pensioner & Anne McMullen.
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Thank you Ballydw,
Jane Mc FARLANE, daughter of Henry Mac FARLANE, was born at Berwickupon Tweed, Northumberland, 18.03.1855
Robert Henry Mc FARLANE, son of Henry was born at Saint-Thomas, Portsmouth, Hampshire, 15.01.1859
But I havent' got births between 1859 and 08.04.1866 (birth of Mary-Ann at Athlone) ???
A Census would be necessary to know all the children of Henry.
An Henry (born in 1806) marry with Nancy have got five children between 1832 and 1851 at Killed, Antim (CEnsus 1851). Pehaps it is the same person ?
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Birth registered in Athlone Co Westmeath for a Lucy Helena MacFarlane 16th Feb 1872 address Northgate Street Athlone. Parents Henry MacFarlane Pensioner & Anne McMullen.
Possible marriage 25th December 1902 St Annes Parish Belfast for a Lucy McFarland Father Robert McFarland - TO James McCracken. Robert MacFarland Occupation a Grocer.
Your family seem to move around a lot was Robert MacFarlane in the Army ? Also his name seems to vary from Robert to Henry at times. :)
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Yes, Henry and his son Edward John and his Grandson Charles William was in the Army.
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This is the birth of Edward John Mac Farland (spelling), Athlone, Co. Westmeath to parents -
Henry MacFarlane a Pensioner in Army and mother Anne McMullen
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03418/2253663.pdf
It certainly seems to be the correct Edward despite the fact that Edward Robert is on his marriage certificate. Marriage cert again for comparison??? He signed it E.R. MacFarlane as opposed to E.J ???
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10646/5878793.pdf
Edward has Edward John on his daughter's birth certificate -
This is very unusual but it does seem to be the SAME Edward ??? Would you all agree???
You could imagine an error on his marriage cert if the person completing the form entered Edward Robert ( maybe confusing it with his father's name) but to see Edward had signed it E.R. McFarlane seems that he was using Edward Robert as his name at the time. It is possible when he joined the Army they entered his name as Edward Robert and he just stuck with that for his official marriage record. Other than that reason I can't think why he would use both.....???
Any other theories from anyone??
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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I don't know Mary, it's very difficult with all these Mc FARLANE !
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This is the card of Helen Mc Farlane
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An other Edward John Mac Farlane is born 1st december of 1867 at Stepney (county of London), but I dont know this parents.
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I send you in french (excuse me !) the researchs about the FELTON of Queenstown
I/ Carl Rudolf FELTON, interprète au tribunal de Cork le 12 septembre 1873 (lors du procès du peintre Johann MUELLER accusé de meurtre en Allemagne d’Anton ROBINS, charpentier), water-clerk ( ?) en 1893, interprète-retraité en 1901, né vers 1833 en Allemagne, décédé d’une hémorragie cérébrale à Queenstown le 2 mars 1906 (domicilié 20 East Hill), épouse le 18 février (ou avril) 1863 à Queenstown (Irlande) Ellen SULLIVAN, décédée entre janvier et mars 1885 à Cork (Irlande), d’où :
1) Marie, née le 18 mars 1864 à Queenstown
2) Francis dit Frank J. FELTON, né le 13 mars 1865 à Queenstown, immigre aux Etats-Unis en 1890, décédé le 20 mars 1916 à Sommerville, Middlesex, Massachussets (USA) épouse le 28 juillet 1892 à Fitchburg (Massachussets) Ellen HOLMES COTTER, d’où :
a) Carl Rudolph FELTON, né le1er juillet 1892 à Fitchburg (Massachussets), décédé en janvier 1969 à Medford (Massachussets), d’où :
A1. Francis FELTON, né en 1924 , décédé le 25 juin 2013 à Woodsville (New Hampshire)
b) William Holmes FELTON, né le 25 juillet 1895 à Fitchburg (Massachussets), décédé après 1940 à Watertown (Massachussets épouse Margaret C. , d’où :
B1. Jane E. FELTON, née vers 1933
c) Francis (Frank) FELTON, né le 04.01.1900 à Fichburg (Massachussets)
3) Ida, née le 23 mai 1867 à Queenstown, décédée le 21 décembre 1941 à Bermarton (Washinhgton)
4) Margaret, née le 24 novembre 1868 à Queenstown, décédée le 15 novembre 1947 à Bermarton (Washington)
5) Robert Stephen, né le 25 décembre 1870 à Quuenstown
6) Florence, née le 15 avril 1873 à Queenstown épouse en 1892 Edward John Robert MAC FARLANE
7) Charles FELTON, catholique, né le 15 octobre 1874 à Queenstown épouse Jennie …, domiciliée à Ballyvollon (Queenstown en 1911), d’où :
a) Carl Rudolph FELTON, apprenti, né en 1902, décédé de phtysie pulmonaire le 7 septembre 1919 à l’hôpital de Queenstown
b) Cathleen FELTON, née vers 1905
c) Ellen FELTON, née vers 1908
8) Ellen dite Nellie FELTON, née le 2 avril 1878 à Queenstown, domiciliée 20 East Hill à Queenstown en 1901
9) Wiliam FELTON, domicilié 18 East Hill, né le 25 septembre 1879 à Queenstown, décédé d’endocardite le 17 septembre 1893
10) Edward FELTON, né en 1881
???? Charles FELTON, officier de marine, domicilié 11 Hawthorn Terrace, Cobh (anciennement Queenstown), né vers 1870, décédé le 6 septembre 1947 à l’Hôpital Bonsecours de Cork
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Bonsoir Arnaud,
Je comprends presque toutes les informations que vous nous avez fournies.
Il est bon de voir cette information - ces tres interessant - merci pour cela.
Je pense que vous avez maintenant la pluspart des informations sur les Feltons.
I think you now have most of the information about the Feltons from Cobh (Queenstown)
Many of Carl's family seem to have emigrated to the USA.
I think maybe you should post a query on the German Forum to see if you can find his birth.
Je pense que vous devriez peut-etre poster une question sur le forum Allemand sur rootschat.
I know a lot of the German records can be difficult to find but it might be a good idea.
Si vous avez une question particuliere n'hesitez pas a demande. ( If you have a particular question please ask us)
It would be interesting to discover why Carl Rudolf Felton came to Cobh/Queenstown ???
Il cerait interessant de decouvrir pourquois Carl Rudolf est venu a Cork????
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hi Ballydv,
In reply 23, you say that Edward John Mac Farlane and Florence Felton have 5 childrens. I know Charles William born in 1898 at Aden, Florence born in 1901 at Aldershot (dead Young) and Helen Marguerite born in 1902 at Cork. Who are the two other childrens and where they were born. Thank you for advance.
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Hi Ballydv,
In reply 23, you say that Edward John Mac Farlane and Florence Felton have 5 childrens. I know Charles William born in 1898 at Aden, Florence born in 1901 at Aldershot (dead Young) and Helen Marguerite born in 1902 at Cork. Who are the two other childrens and where they were born. Thank you for advance.
This was recorded on the 1911 census stated 5 children born alive, children still living 2 children that had died 3
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Thank you Ballydw. So it isn't possible to know their names and site of birth (perhaps Aden ?)
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Thank you Ballydw. So it isn't possible to know their names and site of birth (perhaps Aden ?)
Difficult to find as the family lived in so many different locations maybe you could try for births/deaths in Uk before 1911