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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: JennMorgon on Tuesday 07 November 17 18:17 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find birth details or census returns prior to 1901 for Robert Henry James O'Neill. His death certificate (1927), marriage certificate (1893) and census returns for 1901 and 1911 all indicate a birth date of 1872. The 1911 census suggests his birth place of Chatterton on Medlock but the 1901 census states Manchester. Both census returns state his occupation is a loco engine packer. The marriage certificate names his father as Robert Henry O'Neill a butcher who was deceased (1893). His address on the wedding certificate states 1 Shepherds Street, West Gorton, Lancashire. I have tried searching on Find My Past and Ancestry but couldn't find either father or son prior to 1901 census. I am quite new to family research so have no idea where to look next. If anyone can find either man please let me know where to look as I have a subscription to both sites.
Many thanks
Jenn
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Hello,
I would imagine that the birthplace in 1911 should be Chorlton on Medlock.
Heywood
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cant find any of the records you have mentioned? can you be more specific? who did he marry? where is he exactly in 1901/1911?
edit.....found him now.
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Chorlton on Medlock would make more sense.
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I suspect he wasn't born as O'Neill. There is no Robert Henry O'Neill death in the Manchester area between 1870 - 1893
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I thought the same Carole. I did find a Robert O'Neil who died in West Derby in MQ 1888 aged 52. It a million miles away but still couldn't link him as father to Robert James Henry O'Neill. It's more likely that another spelling of O'Neill was used. I tried a few variations O'Niel, Oneil Oneel etc but went round in circles. Hence my request for help ! The biggest clue must be the fact that the father was a butcher who lived in Chorlton on Medlock around 1872.
Jenn
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Is there any way of searching Chorlton on Medlock in 1871 (just before birth of Robert junior) to see what butchers were living there ? I do have access to Find My Past and Ancestry .
Jenn
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The biggest clue must be the fact that the father was a butcher who lived in Chorlton on Medlock around 1872.
Not necessarily. That's only what he told the vicar which is not always the truth. Many illegitimate children made up fathers names and occupations when they married so as to appear "respectable".
It was not uncommon for these "fathers" details to be based on relatives and it's amazing how many were deceased by the time of the marriage.
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West Derby in near Liverpool, not (as one may assume) near Derby in Derbyshire. It's about 30 miles from Manchester.
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Is there any way of searching Chorlton on Medlock in 1871 (just before birth of Robert junior) to see what butchers were living there ?
I don't know about FindMyPast but you can't search the 1871 on Ancestry using an occupation.
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I think you can search on FindMyPast for whoever was living at 1 Shepherds Street, West Gorton in 1891. It may be that RHJ O'Neil was there with his family or nearby with his family at the census prior to his marriage..
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I think you can search on FindMyPast for whoever was living at 1 Shepherds Street, West Gorton in 1891. It may be that RHJ O'Neil was there with his family or nearby with his family at the census prior to his marriage..
Is it SHEPHERDS street or Shepherd Street Gorton, as 1, Shepherd Street, Gorton is a Thomas Groom
Census ref RG12/3172/16/25
Keyboard86
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The wedding certificate states 1 Shepherd Street. The marriage took place in All Saints Church Gorton.
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The wedding certificate states 1 Shepherd Street. The marriage took place in All Saints Church Gorton.
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Have you searched for him under various spellings of Neil, without an O in front? Also with an O but without an apostrophe? Some Irish people didn't use O in front of their surname until late 19th-early 20th century.
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Birth reg Sept qtr 1872 ref 8b 364 West Derby Robert James O'Neill, but I can not find him on the GRO index.
Jennifer
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Looking at the GRO index I think it's page 304 not 364 but there's still no match on GRO online. He signs as Robert Henry (Henery) on his marriage cert. No mention of James
Nothing for that birth on Lancs BMD either
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1871 census Chorlton-on-Medlock: baby James A. R. Neill was with his widowed mother Mary.
1881 census Salford: James A. R. Neill was with sister Edith. Head of household & stepfather was John E. Alton.
Death registration Salford 1871 Robert Neill, aged 36.
Butchers on 1891 census:
James H. Neale , Didsbury, Chorlton
William Neale, Salford
John R. O'Neill (20), Chorlton, Hulme was a carter for a butcher.
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1871 census Chorlton-on-Medlock: baby James A. R. Neill was with his widowed mother Mary.
1881 census Salford: James A. R. Neill was with sister Edith. Head of household & stepfather was John E. Alton.
Death registration Salford 1871 Robert Neill, aged 36.
Butchers on 1891 census:
James H. Neale , Didsbury, Chorlton
William Neale, Salford
John R. O'Neill (20), Chorlton, Hulme was a carter for a butcher.
Hi Maiden Stone,
Do you have the 1871 reference. I can’t find it. You have mother Mary but 1881 refers to Margaret.
I noticed 1881 family last night but discounted them. Edith seems to be Edith Renton Neill mmn Worthington and James is James Albert Robert mmn Worthington.
Edith gives her father as Thomas Wood Neill, deceased on her marriage in 1887. I don’t think that is the right family.
Heywood
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Thank you everyone for trying to help. The 1872 West Derby Robert James O'Neill is not the right one as I found his baptismal record and his parents are Marguette and Laurence . I think you are right he must have been registered somewhere with a different variation of surname. He may have grown up in Chorlton but actually been born and registered elsewhere e.g. his mother's hometown.
Thank you for your help
Jenn
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Is this your Robert's death?
Robert J H O'Neill
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1937
Registration District: Manchester North
Age 65
Birth Year (Estimated):1872
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Hi, Looking at find my past, I found Robert O'Neill in the Manchester rate book for 1874 living at 28 Cross Lane, Gorton.
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According to the opening post he died in 1927 unless that’s a typo and should be 1937
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1871 census Chorlton-on-Medlock: baby James A. R. Neill was with his widowed mother Mary.
1881 census Salford: James A. R. Neill was with sister Edith. Head of household & stepfather was John E. Alton.
Death registration Salford 1871 Robert Neill, aged 36.
Hi Maiden Stone,
Do you have the 1871 reference. I can’t find it. You have mother Mary but 1881 refers to Margaret.
I noticed 1881 family last night but discounted them. Edith seems to be Edith Renton Neill mmn Worthington and James is James Albert Robert mmn Worthington.
Edith gives her father as Thomas Wood Neill, deceased on her marriage in 1887. I don’t think that is the right family.
Heywood
1871 family were at 1 Kingsmount ? St., Chorlton on Medlock. RG 10/3990/F pages 159-160.
I read the mother's name as Mary E. but having squinted at it again I agree it could have been Margaret. The only name I made out with certainty was Edith.
The mother was definitely Margaret on 1881, then married to John E. Alton and living at 17 Vere St. Salford with Edith R. and James A. R. Neil. RG 11/3977/F
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Thanks M S. I see now why I couldn’t find the family. On mine he is transcribed as Jera R Mell ::)
However, I don’t think it is the right one.
It’s a difficult one this.
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Agree doesn't look right from the info he gives on his marriage cert
Baptism: 26 Dec 1869 St Saviour, Chorlton on Medlock, Lancashire, England
James Albert Robert Neill - [Child] of Thomas Wood Neill & Margaret Elizbeth
Born: 20 Jul 1869
Abode: 1 Kingsdom St.
Occupation: Builder
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I was wondering about this chap on the Lancs OPC site
Baptism: 28 Jun 1870 St Mary, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Robert O'Neil - son of Dorothy O'Neil
Born: 18 Jun 1870
Godparents: Maria Jana Orange
Parents' Marital Status: unmarried
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There is a death for a Robert O'Neill in Ashton in 1875 aged 5 :-\