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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: TNGeneWhiz on Friday 10 November 17 23:29 GMT (UK)
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I am somewhat familiar with Welsh research, but mostly in the South and West. I'm helping a young friend with his Denbighshire lineage, and I've hit a roadblock that is exacerbated by my unfamiliarity with the geography of Northeast Wales.
Local help will be appreciated.
The 1911 Census of Enumeration District 9, Rhosllanerchrugog Civil Parish, Schedule 47, contains the following family at the address 9 Greek Road, Ponkey, Ruabon:
William Griffiths, Head, age 31, married, coal miner, born Ruabon, bilingual
Mary Griffiths, Wife, age 31, married 9 years, mother of 3, 2 living, born Tyldesley, Lancs, bilingual (née Roberts, from other records)
Edward Wm Griffiths, Son, age 8, born Ruabon, bilingual
Oswald Griffiths, Son, age 3, born Ruabon, bilingual
I'm fairly certain this Edward William Griffiths emigrated to Pennsylvania, USA, and was the ancestor of my friend. His Edward William Griffiths was born 17 Dec 1902, according to various U. S. records.
I have located a possible Oswald Griffiths' death registration in 4Q 1980 at Wrexham Maelor RD, his having been born 12 Mar 1908.
My questions --
- Is anyone connected to this family? If so, I'd love to coordinate research.
- Can anyone help me identify the family's 1911 residence on a modern OS map?
- Does anyone have access to Parish Registers and would look for the Christenings of Edward and Oswald Griffiths and any other members of this family?
Many thanks in advance!
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Hi and welcome
Greek road is indicated on this map
https://goo.gl/maps/FtD9dVTwhaG2
I have the parish transcripts for the area but as it is late, I can't look them up now. If no one has helped, I'll check tomorrow.
I was born and raised in the area.
Gadget
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It seems likely that William Griffiths married Mary Roberts in what is given on North Wales BMD as a "Wrexham Civil Marriage".Almost certainly this one in the GRO marriage Index; Wrexham Registation District,Denbighshire,March Quarter,Volume 11b,Page 394.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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It would seem that the family were not C of E and nothing on FreeReg so you would have to obtain the birth registration documents:
Edward William Griffiths, 1Q, 1903, Wrexham, vol 11b, page 241
Oswald Griffiths, 2Q, 1908, Wrexham vol 11b page 237
These can be ordered from the GRO via PDF
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
The GRO is piloting a service from 12 October 2017 to provide portable document format (PDF) copies of digitised historical birth and death records. The pilot will run for a minimum of 3 months to enable GRO to assess the demand for this service over a prolonged period.
Applications for each PDF cost £6, must be made online, and include a GRO index reference.
England and Wales records which are available as PDFs in this extended pilot include:
Births: 1837 –1916
Deaths: 1837 –1957
Gadget
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The first quarter (Jan-March) 1903 registration would be compatible with a December birth.
Gadget
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Pennsylvania Death Certificate - Edward W Griffiths born 17 December 1902 North Wales passed away 20 May 1959 - parents William Edward Griffiths and Mary Roberts.
Sandra
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See later posting
The most likely family for William (b.c. 1880, Ruabon) is this one:
1881
Bank Street, Ponkey, Ruabon RG11/5512/129/29
Edward Griffiths, 42, coal miner
Sarah, w, 42
Hannah, d, 12
John, s, 10
Sarah Ann, d, 8
Edward, s, 6
Elizabeth, d, 4
William, s, 2
All b. Ruabon
1891
Same address RG12/4612/119/12
Sarah Griffiths, wid, 52
John,s, 20, coal miner
Edward, s, 15, -do-
Elizabeth, d, 14, scholar
William, s, 12, coal miner
Joseph, s, 9, scholar
All born Ponkey
1901
23 Australia Lane, Rhosllanerchrugog RG13/5216/154/24
Sarah Griffiths, wid, 62
William, s, 22, coal hewer
Joseph, s, 19. -do-
All b. Ponkey
Mary Roberts is more difficult as there are a few born or living Tyldesley on the censuses.
I think obtaining the marriage certificate would help in tracing the family further back.
Gadget
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See later posting
In 1871
Same Address as 1881/1891 RG10/5653/166/17
Edward Griffiths, 32,
Sarah, w, 32
Hannah, d, 2
John,s, 7 mths, b. Rhos(llanerchrugog)
Others b. Ruabon
Note that Ponkey/Ponciau, Rhosllanerchrugog, Ruabon were all in same area. The first two were part of Ruabon parish until the parish was divided circa 1844.
So far I've not found a marriage for Edwards and Sarah. Will look at other records.
Gadget
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See later posting
*Only Hannah Griffiths registered Wrexham 1868+/- 1 had mmn Jones
So
Marriage Ruabon, St Marys 30th March 1867
Edward Griffiths, 28, collier and Sarah Jones, 28. Both living Ponkey
Edward's father - John Griffiths, collier
Sarah's father - John Jones, collier.
Both made their mark.
Witnesses - John Griffiths and Mary Griffiths
Gadget
*Added - omitted my first step - found possible Sarahs married to Edward Griffiths in Wrexham RD on NWales BMD 1865 +/- 5 which gave me Rogers or Jones. Then looked for Hannah Griffiths on GRO site.
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Best match I can find for Mary Roberts:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27G-HFLM
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*****I've found another more likely William Griffiths (b. 1880) - Also in Bank Street, Ponkey. It's maybe a closer fit to his DofB ~
1881 Bank Street, Ponkey RG11/5512/134/40
Fred Griffiths, 27, coal miner, b. Hanley Staffs
Ann, w, 25, b. Ruabon
John, s, 2, b. -do-
William, s, 10 mths, b. -do-
Possible marriage in Wrexham (civil ceremony)
Frederick Griffiths and Ann Dodd Wrexham March Q, 11b 374
I think this family is more likely. The marriage cert for William and Mary is really important to purchase to go back further with any confidence.
I see a rather jumbled online tree which seems to have the whole family going to Pennsylvania. From other evidence I think Edward was the only one who emigrated! It does show Edward W's death cert though with correct parents.
Gadget
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Interesting perhaps,Edward W's father is given as a William Edward Griffiths
Regards
William Russell Jones
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I think that was possibly his wife's memory, WR. I've found Oswald and father later on which led to my corrections.
Don't you have some Dodds in your line?
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Birth reg of the most likely William Griffiths
Jun Q, 1880, Wrexham 11b 318. MMN Dodd
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The Dodds I have are from the Maelor area of Flintshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thank you all so much! I appreciate the assistance, since I'm new to research in this region.
I've coped with Davies/variants in Dyfed and Evans/variants in Glamorgan. I'm also quite experienced with brick walls from NC families.
Looking at older maps has helped somewhat, but I need to study the local culture to learn more.
Griffith(s) appears to be very common in Denbighshire. My friend has already decided he's descended from Llewellyn, of course!
Perhaps I'll discover someone who has sorted the Griffith(s) families in the Ruabon area. There were a couple of ladies on a Clwyd mailing list at Rootsweb, both apparently in Canada, who shared a great deal about the Griffith(s) around Ruabon several years ago. Fingers crossed, I'll be able to locate them!
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There are so many different Griffiths lines in the area that sorting them out is not really what you need. If you want to find William Griffiths who married Mary Roberts's line, you need to get the wedding certs that we have indicated and work back from there. That is good practice.
WRJones and I have studied the region extensively as out own lines come from that area. We are both members of the Clwyd FHS and have most of the resources available from there.
Good luck.
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Thank you. I intend to get the marriage cert on order. Then we shall go from there!
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Do either of you have the 1939 Register access from FindMyPast? I wonder if William and Mary Griffiths were still living in Ponkey or vicinity.
Just dabbling, I found an Oswald Griffiths who played football for union and league teams in the 1930's. I can't find much on-line, but I wondered if he might be the Oswald from this family.
Oswald seems to have been a forename in use in the area around Ruabon in the 19th Century. I thought it might be uncommon.
The search continues!
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We're not allowed to give info from the 1939 register on this forum (also against FindMyPast copyright) but you would be able to get some information about the family for free:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1939-register
district.
I suggest you look for Oswald first . Use Wrexham R.D. as District/Borough.
Also, see my replies #10 and #12 above.
Gadget