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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: eileendavid on Sunday 12 November 17 10:50 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone advise me of the profession and whether this man was widowed.
Name John Evans
Event Type Census
Event Date 1841
Event Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Residence Note St Ann Street
Gender Male
Age 55-59
Age (Original) 55
Birth Year (Estimated) 1782-1786
Registration District Liverpool
Parish Liverpool
County Lancashire
Page Number 41
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 559/24
Affiliate Record Type Household
Your help would be gratefully accepted
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1841 census does not give marital status (though there is no possible wife with him)
His occupation was Wholesale Druggist - he was not born in county not were the rest of the 'family'
Others in property
Edward 24
Aaron ? 17
Mary 16
Henry 11
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[ As usual, Rosie beat me to it :'( ]
In case it adds anything, his son Edward was also listed as a "Wholesale Druggist" ( "do" ) .
Ray
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Thanks for that Rosie & Ray,
This guy was like chameleon changed his profession all the time but at the time of his daughter's marriage in 1841 he said he was a shoemaker so I guess it's not him? ??? back to the drawing board. He did have a son Edward but he was a labourer and on checking think he was born 1833
Thanks again I love this site so helpfull
Eileen
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Aha
1832 Electoral Roll says that there is a John Evans , Shoemaker, in Circus Street.
[ link coming up ]
'Yertis . . . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l1n/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l1n/)
Robert Evans Druggist next line
Ray
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Good find [Ray] :)
It's really frustrating when you spend time looking for something only to find you are too late with your reply. Still it keeps the mind active ;D
Rosie
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Thank you both on your research. Elizabeth Evans married Robert Forshaw in 1841 at St Peter's Liverpool. She was a minor. She is on the 1841with her husband and then a widow on the 1851, 1861 census with her sister Mary Evans. On the 1871 census she has her brother Edward living with her born 1834 on this census she is born 1826.
These are from the Lan opc
Baptism: 31 Mar 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Edward Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Myrtle St
Occupation: Comb Maker
Baptised by: C. Wray
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1834, Page 399, Entry 3191
Source: LDS Film 1656421
Baptism: 24 Jun 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Addison Street
Occupation: Combmaker
Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Baptisms 1826 - 1827, Page 286, Entry 2283
Source: LDS Film 1656419
Baptism: 10 Sep 1821 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Lumber St
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1822, Page 88, Entry 699
Source: LDS Film 1656418
Couldn't find any thing for Mary Evans but think she married Samuel Saunders at St John’s Old Haymarket 02.10.1863 father John Evans age 27. Lan opc doesn't go this far so was unable to see if it gave any helpful information
John Evan's in Circus Street Shoemaker is right area any way I can find anything else about him (1832 electoral rolls) Shoemaker is what was on his daughter's marriage certificate.
Thanks for your help
Eileen
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There are these 2 marriages for cordwainers ( shoemakers) named John Evans in Liverpool:
1830 St. Nicholas, to Elizabeth Greenhalgh, widow.
March 1834 St. John, to Margaret Brannan.
There was also Edward Evans, shoemaker. He & wife Rachel had son, Edward baptised at St. Peter 1834.
(LAN OPC)
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There were 38 marriages of a John Evans to a bride named Elizabeth in Liverpool 1810-1835 listed on LAN OPC. An Elizabeth Evans, aged 89, of Circus St. was buried in 1833.
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There were 4 shoemakers named John Evans on 1851 census in Liverpool. 2 of them were too young, around 30.
2 possibles :
Rathbone St. Age 72. Born Wales. Sons William & Robert and daughter Catherine in household.
Workhouse. Age 48. Born Wales.
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Thank you all for your help so far.
I have gone through the Lan OPC and have discarded all but the following which I got from the LDS and non of these were on the records so couldn't check to see if any of these John Evans was a shoemaker or cordwainer.
8 June 1818 John Evans – Elisabeth Ann Chandler
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
20 October 1816 John Evans – Elisabeth Midghall
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, Englan
6 May 1817 John Evans – Elisabeth Gulburn
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
8 October 1817 John Evans – Elizabeth Lewis
St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire England
The Elizabeth Evans aged 89 who died in 1833 of Circus Street she would be too old to be Elizabeth, Edward and Mary's mother (born between 1827-1834) could be a grandmother though as I have also been told of a John Evans being on the electoral roll for 1832 a shoemaker in Circus Street.
Also can someone advise if they think that combmaker on the two baptisms above could be cordwainer? They sound similar to me. I think Elizabeth was only 14 when she married and her father signed the register in 1841 as she was a minor.
Can't find an 1841 census for John Evans, Elizabeth his wife, Edward his son born 1834 or Mary born 1833. Elizabeth their daughter was with her husband Robert Forshaw.
Mary Evans appears on the 1851, 1861 census with her sister Elizabeth/Betsey Forshaw a widow as a washer/char woman. On the 1871 census it's Edward Evans a labourer that is now lodging with his sister. Not found Mary on the 1871 census or Edward on the 1851 or 1861.
Can anyone help to untangle the web I find myself in ??? ???
Eileen
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The only Robert Forshaw, shoemaker, i can find who is about the right age for your Robert (born c1818) on 1841 census is the one with wife Elizabeth age 21 living in Milton Street which is the address on the marriage certificate. Elizabeth was born in Ireland.
Please could you give us the person you are working back from so that perhaps we could trace better.
Most of the Forshaw's seem to be blacksmiths. I have some in my tree too.
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Hello Lancsann
Robert Forshaw was a blacksmith who married Elizabeth Evans in 1841. It was Elizabeth's father John Evans who was a shoemaker/cordswainer.
Elizabeth aged 21 was actually only 14 she was baptised in Liverpool daughter of John and Elizabeth Evans. She had a brother Edward and a sister Mary both born in Liverpool. (not found Mary or Edward for the 1841 census) By the 1851 census Elizabeth Forshaw nee Evans was a widow and her sister Mary Evans was living with her aged 19. On this census Elizabeth says she was born in Liverpool. Her husband died in 1848 buried at St John's Old Haymarket Liverpool. The couple had two sons James and John. Only John Forshaw (my great grandfather) survived as James wasn't on the 1851 census.
On the 1861 census she is recorded as Betsy Forshaw is living with her unmarried sister Mary was aged 28. Betsey recorded as age 40.
On the 1871 census Elizabeth is 45/48 and her brother Edward is now living with her aged 38 and a single labourer.
I think Elizabeth died June 1876 age 51 in West Derby Liverpool.
Robert Forshaw my great great grandfather was baptised at St Peter's 1819 son of James and Elizabeth Forshaw nee ?
I thought James was the son of Richard and Mary Forshaw nee Coppull but they had 3 boys that I have found and two were named James but both died. I spent 3 days going though all the Liverpool central registers on Lan opc.
Which Forshaw's are in your tree?
Eileen
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mine is Hugh Forshaw of Skelmersdale who married Margaret Hesketh of Simonswood in 1824
sorry it was a mistyping - I should have said Robert Forshaw, blacksmith in 1841
what makes you say Elizabeth was only 14 when she married please as she describes herself as 21 in 1841, 30 in 51, 40 in 61, 48 in 71
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this baptism would fit
Baptism: 10 Sep 1821 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Lumber St
Occupation: Labourer
John could easily have changed his profession in 20 years.
Also if Elizabeth describes herself as a minor in March 1841,she could have been age 20 (ie a minor) with a birthday between then and the census date of 6th June, 1851 30th March so before birthday & 1861 7th April'
Just trying to make sense of census ages
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On the 1871 census her brother Edward is staying with her these are the two baptisms that I think are relevant of my John and Elizabeth Evans. I don't think he was a combmaker I think he was a cordwainer/shoemaker. I originally had the 1821 Elizabeth but her father was a labourer.
Baptism: 31 Mar 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Edward Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Myrtle St
Occupation: Comb Maker
Baptised by: C. Wray
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1834, Page 399, Entry 3191
Source: LDS Film 1656421
Baptism: 24 Jun 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Addison Street
Occupation: Combmaker
Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Baptisms 1826 - 1827, Page 286, Entry 2283
Source: LDS Film 1656419
Baptism: 10 Sep 1821 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
Abode: Lumber St
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1822, Page 88, Entry 699
Source: LDS Film 1656418
When she married Robert Forshaw in 1841 she was a minor and John Evans signed the register. I thought the 1871 census said she was 35.
This is the marriage
Marriage: 18 Apr 1841 St Peters, Liverpool, Lancs.
Robert Forshaw - (X), Full, Blacksmith, Bachelor, Milton St
Elizabeth Evans - (X), Minor, Spinster, Milton St
Groom's Father: James Forshaw, Blacksmith
Bride's Father: John Evans, Shoe Maker
Witness: John Evans; Elizabeth Jones, (X)
Married by Banns by: Thos Halton M A Curate
Register: Marriages 1840 - 1841, Page 249, Entry 497
Source: LDS Film 93920
I have been unable to find another Edward Evans of the correct age other than the one with Elizabeth born in 1827.
I have not found John Evans and his wife Elizabeth. There are 38 on Lan opc I believe. The ones I posted earlier are the ones I have been unable to check to see if any of the 4 are shoemakers and where they lived.
On the 1841 census she said she was from Ireland and then Liverpool ??? ???
Her son John (my great grandfather) lived in Manchester but for a spell was living in Liverpool in 1879 in Everton he had one of his daughters baptised at St Peter's.
You sent another message whilst I was typing this and the Elizabeth you gave me was what I had originally prior to not being able to find an Edward with the same parents. Myrtle Street and Addlington Street both had Forshaws living in them but Lumber Street is also in the same locality.
I have found a death for an Elizabeth in 1880 age 53 in West Derby but don't know whether she is the correct one.
This branch of my history is so complicated.
Eileen
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I've not seen image of register, but I wondered about combmaker/ cordwainer.
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I can't remember where I saw it but in searching round I found a marriage of a John & Elizabeth where John was a comb maker
On the 1841 marriage both Robert and Elizabeth made their mark and a John Evans signed as a witness. He could have been another relative eg brother
just as a point age 20 was considered as a minor
1871 Elizabeth age 48, Edward Evans 38
the Edward evans baptised 31 March 1834 died age 15 weeks
urial: 29 Jun 1834 Low Hill Cemetery, Everton, Lancashire, England
Edward Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizth.
Age: 15 wks.
Abode: Myrtle Street
Grave: 7363
Cause of Death: Bowl. Comps.
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I haven't seen the images of the baptisms either. Its just putting everything together I get one thing that gels and the rest disintegrates.
I think I will be bald with pulling my hair out
Eileen
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Since last posting on this topic have found that John Evans of my history died in 1833 whilst still living in Circus Street, Liverpool aged 53. Born 1780. Thanks to the people on this site pointing me in this direction. Buried at St Johns Old Haymarket Liverpool
I have also found that his wife was Isabella (not found the marriage) but it's not Isabella Jones who married John Evans labourer. I know this as their children born in Wales with father John a labourer conflict with the family of John the shoemaker in Liverpool.
Isabella died 1848 and it gave her age as 52 so born 1796. Buried at St Johns Old Haymarket, Liverpool. Can anyone advise as to whether the death certificate would have her maiden name?
I have found children Thomas 1823, James & Sarah 1827, Edward 1829 and Mary 1831 all born at Circus Street father John mother Isabella at St Peter's Liverpool but not ELIZABETH 1821 or her elder brother JOHN who signed her marriage register in 1841 as she was a minor. Both lived in Milton Street Liverpool.
Elizabeth had married Robert Forshaw and on the 1841 census on the born in the county it said no and an I was put in the other column.
Not found 1841 census for Thomas Evans 1823, James and Sarah Evans 1827. Nor the 1851 census for John Evans 1816, Thomas, James and Sarah 1827, and Edward 1829. Edward turned up on the 1871 census with his sister Elizabeth Forshaw nee Evans. Mary was with Elizabeth on the 1851 and 1861 census then missing.
Isabella Evans was on the 1841 census living on own means in Milton Street Liverpool with John Evans 1816, Edward 1829 and Mary 1831 Both Isabella and John were not born in the county.
So where I go from here I don't know.
John Evans was 16 years older than Isabella so was he a widower?
Could his first two children John 1816 and Elizabeth 1821 be from a previous marriage?
John Evans 1780 and Isabella marriage earliest for her marriage 1814 (aged 18) to 1823 (first child born in Circus Street) Need to find this marriage anyone help.
Much appreciate any help in untangling my Evans ancestry.
Eileen :-\
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On Elizabeth’s marriage to Robert Forshaw surely it is her father who is named in the father column - John a shoemaker, not her brother. There is also a witness Elizabeth Jones - a relative? The witness John Evans could be either her father or her brother.
Incidentally an I in the column on 1841 means born in Ireland
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The death certificate would not give her maiden name. Possibly the only extra information you would get is the name of the informant
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Hello Lancsann
The death certificate would not give her maiden name. Possibly the only extra information you would get is the name of the informant
Thanks for the information don't think I will send for it.
On Elizabeth’s marriage to Robert Forshaw surely it is her father who is named in the father column - John a shoemaker, not her brother. There is also a witness Elizabeth Jones - a relative? The witness John Evans could be either her father or her brother.
Incidentally an I in the column on 1841 means born in Ireland
Yes it is her father who was John the shoemaker. I was referring to the witness signature as being her brother as her father had died in 1833. The other witness Elizabeth Jones I thought might have been her brothers intended. I found a marriage of a John Evans to Elizabeth Jones but the signature didn't match.
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Please is there anyone who can give me any further details on this marriage
NAME: John Evans
SPOUSE: Isabella Wethy
MARRIAGE: date - city, Lancashire
Lancashire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936BIRTH, MARRIAGE & DEATH, INCLUDING PARISH
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Bishop's Transcripts only on ancestry
the date was 3 February 1800 at St Nicholas Liverpool by license.
John Evans a mariner and of the parish, Isabella Wethy spinster of the parish.
ADDED
Lancashire Parish Records online
John Evans married Isabella Kelley, 3 Feb 1800 St Nicholas Liverpool by license, witnesses are Edward Coventry and John Kelley
This entry is from the original parish register
Looking at the image on ancestry (bishops transcripts) I can see why it was transcribed as Wethy
The John Evans you are looking for was a shoemaker, requiring an apprenticeship of 7 years.
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Hello Amondg
Thanks for that at least that's another Isabella I can discard.
Eileen
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Yes it is her father who was John the shoemaker. I was referring to the witness signature as being her brother as her father had died in 1833. The other witness Elizabeth Jones I thought might have been her brothers intended. I found a marriage of a John Evans to Elizabeth Jones but the signature didn't match.
yes sorry - I had forgotten when I posted that that you had said father John had died in 1833
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It's OK I am just glad of your help this family are driving me mad.
I think I have found the link then something crops up and it's the wrong branch.
Do you know whether St John's Old Haymarket Liverpool as a grave list to see if John and Isabella are in the same grave and whether there is anyone else in it?
Thanks for all your input it is much appreciated.
Eileen
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Hello All
Before I close this would just like to wish you all a very Happy New Year and thank you for all your help.
I have now found with the help of Rootschat that John Evans was born in Holywell and although a shoemaker by trade he signed up with the 55th foot in 1807. He moved about a lot and he met his wife Isabella Skelton who was born in Brampton Cumberland. She married him in London in 1813 and they had a son John who was born 1815 in London (according to 1851 census) but the regiment moved to Brighton and he was baptised there. The couple then had another two children baptised in St Helier Jersey Margaret in 1817 and Jane in 1818. My great great grandmother Elizabeth Evans (not found her baptism but on the 1841 census recorded born in Ireland) and she was as her father was in Ireland at the time of her birth circa 1821.
He left the army after 14 years and some days in August 1821 and the regiment left Ireland for Liverpool in October 1821 before going on to South Africa. John however remained in Liverpool and went back to his profession of shoemaker living in Circus Street. The couple had 5 more children and John died in 1833 and was buried at St John's Liverpool. Isabella was on the 1841 census but died and was reunited with her husband at St John's Liverpool in 1848.
So here is the story of my Evans of this history who were the first generation to live in Liverpool.
Too Lancsann I don't know whether our Forshaw's tie up yet as I haven't found Robert 1819's parents marriage but named as James and Elizabeth Forshaw. James was born circa 1789 according to his demise and he was a Blacksmith but all the Liverpool James's are all accounted for and are not mine.
Just thought I would fill in the gaps and once again thank you all for your help
Eileen :) :)