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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: kob3203 on Monday 13 November 17 06:54 GMT (UK)
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"In the Parish of St Pauls in or near the Town of Llanelly in the County of Glamorgan" is where the February 1889 attestation of Walter Williams RA (Royal Artillery) 71052 aged 20 year 1 month says he was born (in December 1869 if his age is correct).
FindMyPast record here - https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f4179%2f333728 (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f4179%2f333728)
But I can't find any Parish of St Pauls in or near the Town of Llanelly in the County of Glamorgan.
So I'm looking for a village/town/place named Llanelli/Llanelly with a nearby church/parish of St Pauls in Glamorganshire or neighbouring counties.
I'm fairly certain that this is actually either Llanelly Monmouthshire or Llanelli Carmarthenshire since there doesn't appear to be any Llanelly in Glamorganshire.
I've attached a cropped screenshot of places in Wales starting 'Llanell...'according to GENUKI - Llanelli/Llanelly in Carmarthenshire, Llanelly/Llanelly Hill in Breconshire, Llanellen in Monmouthshire,and Llanelltyd way up north in Merionethshire (see attached screenshot)
I've also attached three combined screenshots from GENUKI maps to show the boundaries of Carms, Glams and Brecs.
The Church in Wales site (Anglican) shows only two current St Pauls parishes: Grangetown St Paul ( Cardiff, Glamorganshire http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/places/benefices/?id=957 (http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/places/benefices/?id=957) ) and Newport St Paul ( in Newport http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/places/parishes/?id=844 (http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/places/parishes/?id=844) )
As far as I can tell there's no parish of St Pauls near Llanelly Monmouthshire, not even a church of St Paul http://www.genuki.org.uk/church_list/BRELlanelli (http://www.genuki.org.uk/church_list/BRELlanelli)
No parish of St Pauls in Llanelli Carmarthenshire, but there is (was?) a church of St Paul in the town centre http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llanelli/StPaul (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llanelli/StPaul)
Can anybody enlighten me as to where this chap was most likely to have been born?
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I think there was a St Pauls Church at Llanelli http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/107201/details/st-pauls-church-llanelli but I see you have already found it :-\
Added - His Army Record lists his age as 20 years and 1 month when he enlisted on 21 Feb 1889 so he should have been born in the first qtr 1869
The only birth I can see in the qtr in Glamorgan is below
Walter Williams March Qtr Llanelly 11a 681
Kay
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I hadn't even thought of checking civil births in Glamorgan !
That same GRO reference (Births Mar 1869, Williams, Walter, Llanelly, 11a, 681) turns up if you do the same search in Carmarthenshire (FreeBMD notes that "The district Llanelly spans the boundaries of the counties of Glamorgan and Carmarthenshire")
I have a note that our Walter Williams (who may or may not be RA Gunner 71052) was born/baptized 1Feb1869 Llanelly,Carms (info from another researcher who I've lost contact with, from a lookup at the local registry office I think) so this birth record is likely to be him
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Llanelly Monmouthshire was apparently in Llanelly civil parish, Crickhowell registration district, Brecknockshire. https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/crickhowell.html (https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/crickhowell.html)
FreeBMD searches for a Walter Williams birth 1868-1870 in Monmouthshire and Breconshire (no Brecknockshire) don't show anything in Crickhowell (FreeBMD says "The district Crickhowell spans the boundaries of the counties of Monmouthshire and Breconshire")
A FreeBMD search for Walter Williams in Crickhowell RD gives nothing from 1859-1871, and two in 1872:
Births Mar 1872: WILLIAMS, Walter John,Crickhowell, 11b, 128
Births Jun 1872: WILLIAMS, Walter, Crickhowell, 11b, 137
I'm still not sure, but it's looking more likely that 71052 Williams,Walter might be the same as our Walter Williams b1869 Llanelli,Carms...
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The GRO Birth Index lists the 1869 Lllanelly birth with mother's maiden name Williams. I see the FindMyPast Army record lists Walter with next of kin Edward Williams who was in the USA at the time
Have you found Walter after he left the Army??
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I notice that Walter was a Washman in a Tin Works when he enlisted and found this family in 1881 with a Walter of the right age and a brother Edward who was a Washman in a Tin Works :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2W9-L9PN
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Yes, our Walter's mother was Ann Williams (also nee Williams) - we should probably buy that certificate now (I stopped buying certificates several years ago after several 'dead-certs' turned out to be wrong).
Walter's eldest brother was Edward, ten years his senior. He's with Walter and their parents in 1871 (34 New Road Llanelli) and 1881 (8 Brickyard Cottages Llanelli) but we don't know where he went after that (we never really looked). If we find evidence that Edward emigrated to the US between 1881 and 1889 then that'll probably clinch it.
In 1901 Walter is married with a 2 month old son at 4 Delabeche Street Llanelli. We're fairly sure he married Mary Griffiths in Q2(Jun) 1890 Marriages Jun 1890, Griffiths Mary / Williams Walter, Llanelly, 11a, 1389.
Gunner 71052 was discharged on payment of a fee at Plymouth 25 April 1889 (after just two months - related question on Armed Forces board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=782491.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=782491.0) ), so that fits.
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I notice that Walter was a Washman in a Tin Works when he enlisted and found this family in 1881 with a Walter of the right age and a brother Edward who was a Washman in a Tin Works :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2W9-L9PN
Yep, that's them !