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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: kjmck on Monday 13 November 17 18:04 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I've been researching my partner's family tree on Ancestry, and have come across connections in other family tree's where a couple branches of the family are descended from noble houses. Not wanting to jump straight in and add these to the tree, I wanted to research myself to see if it added up in my tree as well.
For example, in the family tree I am researching, my partners 4x great grandmother was a lady called Mary Avery nee Plymsell. She was born c.1798 in Tedburn St Mary, in Devon. I struggled to locate definite parents for her, but I found in other family tree's her parents as William Plymsell & Elizabeth Manning. William Plymsell's mother was Cecilia Elston 1739-1813, Cecilia's father was Nathaniel Elston b.c.1719 and his mother was Joan (Johan) Wreford 1675-1743. It is the Wreford family who seem to be descended from several notable families including that of Sir John Plantagenet 6th Earl of Surrey DeWarenne who was born August of 1231 in Warren, Sussex, England.
I don't know how I can confirm the authenticity of all of this (shrugs)!! Any tips? It would be very exciting if i could add this all to the tree!
Cheers,
Keelan
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Exactly the same way as you research any other ancestry you find the real records and prove your ancestry.
It is not unusual to find 'family trees' online on any website and they are all a tree of unproved names unless there is attached real records of each person of where the owner researched and proved that individual person...otherwise they are just a copied and pasted additional from some others unresearched online tree......... and when someone post names prior to 500 yrs where is their proof of research as parishes didn't produce records before then and although there are records available prior most are not suitable family connecting records.
You say you have researched "c.1798 in Tedburn St Mary, in Devon" which means you have the church where she was baptised and so have the baptism record which shows what? Does it show both parents or like many just a fathers name or no parents name and just the event of baptism.... as if so that is where you real research may stop, unless you can find land records, a Will or some other real record that proves the parent/s
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Personally, I'd contact the owner of the tree. Often they're very helpful.
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Name: Mary Plymseel
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 13 May 1798
Baptism Place: Crediton,Devon,England
Father: William Plymseel
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 917183, 917184
Name: Maria Plymsell
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 18 Mar 1798
Baptism Place: Crediton,Devon,England
Father: Amos Plymsell
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 917183, 917184
Name: William Plymsell
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 13 Mar 1774
Baptism Place: Crediton,Devon,England
Father: Amos Plymsell
Mother: Cicely
FHL Film Number: 917183, 917184
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Name: Amos Plymsell
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 23 Aug 1763
Marriage Place: Crediton,Devon,England
Spouse: Cecilia Elston
FHL Film Number: 917184, 917185
I am not saying the Ancestry trees are correct,or incorrect come to that! But they seem to be using other trees as sources, so lots of copying going on. These are a few of the records available for free https://www.familysearch.org/hr/search/
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How to confirm if you are related to nobility?
Prick your finger with a pin. If your blood is blue, you are noble. If your blood is red, you are an ordinary plebeian like the rest of us.
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One tree on Ancestry had connected a family line to the Duke of Bedfords and then further upwards to the Tudors. All seemed to be correct until the crucial "gateway ancestor" who was supposedly the daughter of a Duke. A quick Google search told me he had no daughters by that name.
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My "favourite" from among really terrible descents from aristocracy is for Nicholas Kellogg or Kelhog, of Debden, Essex. He was a husbandman, with goods worth 40 shillings in the 1525 lay subsidy. Then someone, for reasons unknown, decided that he was actually the legitimate son of Lord Audley (whose surname was actually Touchet).
And this is now copied everywhere.
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I also descend from the Kellogg family of Essex. Braintree and Cressing.
I am not too worried about noble ancestors. I have landowners in my tree and someone who was knighted in 1633.
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William Plymsell, who witnessed your Mary's marriage, also witnessed the marriage of Elizabeth Plymsell 1823 and Sarah Plymsell 1829. Same signature. All marriages in Tedbury.
Thomas Plymsell got married at Tedbury in 1823. Witness was Thomas Avery.
So these MIGHT be the Mary b.1798; Thomas b.1800; William b.1805 and Elizabeth b. 1802 baptised Crediton with parents William and Elizabeth.
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As posted by larkspur, William Plymsell son of Amos and Cecily, was baptised in March 1774.
William Plymsell married Elizabeth Manning at Crediton in April 1795.
These all seem to tie together nicely - but - this William signed with a cross, so not the one who witnessed the marriages. Also, it says on the marriage record that William was a minor. Therefore, must have been born later than March 1774.
It's all so close, but not quite right.
It would be good to find a William Plymsell with the same signature as the marriage witnesser. Mary's brother William also signed his marriage with a cross.
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Hi Everyone,
I'm a little fish in this scene and no real expert.
BUT:...
I have stopped adding to my tree because of this precise issue. Copying info that is not corroborated by official document or even by those that are incorrect.
I have even taken down much of what I uploaded. I also contacted people with copied info that was incorrect as I was personally witness to the real information --- no answer and the details are still up there......
My limited advice is add noting without first verifying every detail and if you want to copy do so on your own computer then verify it all first.
Good luck with a noble.
Essnell
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William Plymsell, who witnessed your Mary's marriage, also witnessed the marriage of Elizabeth Plymsell 1823 and Sarah Plymsell 1829. Same signature. All marriages in Tedbury.
Thomas Plymsell got married at Tedbury in 1823. Witness was Thomas Avery.
So these MIGHT be the Mary b.1798; Thomas b.1800; William b.1805 and Elizabeth b. 1802 baptised Crediton with parents William and Elizabeth.
Sorry for the late reply. So the William Plymsell who witnessed these weddings could be the father of Mary, Thomas, Sarah, William & Elizabeth? And perhaps William Plymsell Sr. had learned how to write from the time of his marriage to Elizabeth Manning in 1795 to his daughter Mary's marriage in 1819.
I also found the records didn't quite match for William Plymsell Sr. who was listed as a minor on his marriage record, but I couldn't find a William Plymsell who was born later than 1774 to have been listed as a minor at this wedding. SO FRUSTRATING.
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Also - an Absolom Rolle seems to feature as a witness at each of these weddings. ???
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I agree that it seems so plausible, even likely, that these are the same William. That declaration of being a minor is such a frustrating stumbling block. How likely is it that he'd got his age wrong? He lived near the church where he was baptised, so could have checked the register if he had doubts. Most couples seem to have bluffed their way through the under-age situation. Pity he didn't do the same.
My guess would be that Absolom was a clerk at the church.
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I know, I can't understand why he would have been put down as a minor. Elizabeth was a couple years older than William if he was born in 1774, she would have been born in 1772. I don't know what else would constitute the need for his parents' consent.
Absalom Rolle witnessed all of the weddings of William & Elizabeth's children, including that of Eliza Plymsell to James Ponsford on April 6th, 1830 but he didn't witness the marriage of Martha Plymsell to Charles Slade on 6th September 1831. I found an Absalom Rolle was buried June 5th 1830 in Tedburn St Mary.
No death's I can find in Devon point to a William Plymsell born between 1774 and 1795. Damn it.