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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: John McElroy on Tuesday 14 November 17 10:33 GMT (UK)
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Can anybody help me find how Patrick McLoughlin b May 1822 Sligo, got to Australia ?
I understand he died Feb 1879 Kangaroo flats, Bendigo Victoria 1879.
Son of Michael McLoughlin & Janitha Forrest of Aghanagh county Sligo IRE.
I do know Mary Anne or Marianne McCann arrived in Port Phillip as a famine orphan aged 17, (daughter of Miles McCann - mother unknown) on the 10/1/1850 aboard vessel “DIADEM” .
Any help would be appreciated ?
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You mention here that you think he emigrated between 1845 and 1850.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=465365.msg6059084#msg6059084
His death would have been at Kangaroo Flat no 's' however I wonder where he was buried? Do you have his death certificate? His years in Australia should be noted.
Have you read his digitised probate file on http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
He was enrolled to vote in 1851 with qualification householder living at Fitzroy. A house property at Fitzroy is mentioned in his Will.
Have you searched the available online shipping passenger lists in Victoria and NSW?
Assisted Immigrants arriving Victoria.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/search_form?id=9
I can only find one Patrick arriving in 1848 however he is the wrong age and had wife Mary and family.
Cando
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Hi Cando, Thanks for responding.
Yes I checked all those links and got nothing...not sure where you got his Will & Probate ?..I'll keep looking.
My information comes from my great aunt & a distant cousin, who claims the below information but there is only 1 registered birth in BDM Vict ?
Generation 1
MCLOUGHLIN Family
Michael McLoughlin - Janitha Forrest (In Sligo IRE)
Patrick b. 1824
Generation 2 (In Vict Aust)
Patrick McLoughlin - Mary Ann McCann
John Peter b. 13 November 1852 d. March 1932
Michael b. 1854 d. 30 May 1942
Mary Ann b. 1856 d. 30 May 1873
James b. 1858 d. 1864
Margaret Ann b. 7 January 1859 d. 7 January 1859
Margaret b. 26 June 1863 d. 10 July 1943
Patrick b. 3 November 1865
Henry Myles b. 1867 d. 12 October 1954
Robert b. 9 December 1870 d. December 1945
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Got it Cando, needed to find Patrick "McLaughlin" Sandhurst...Thank you !
Ill check all spelling variations now.
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Okay got the death certificate 30 years in Colony from Roscommon IRE.
Puts his arrival 1849 ?
My Information has him from Carricknahorna, East
Aghanagh Sligo--which is right on the boarder with Roscommon.
You got me moving Cando :) , what other push can you give me ??---ship ?
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...... but there is only 1 registered birth in BDM Vict ?.......
Using offline resource for Vic BMD information, there are three births registered.
McLOUGHLIN, Margaret
Parents Patrick and Mary Ann McCANN
At Majo (Majorca)
1863/21365
McLOUGHNAN, Patrick
Parents Patrick and Mary Ann McCAN
At Dunolly
1866/14411
McLAUGHLAN, Robert
Parents Patrick and Mary Ann McCANN
At Kang
1871/16946
A couple of these do not have dates agreeing with those you have listed above.
Sue
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Who was the informant on the death certificate, please?
Sue
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Did you find the file on the Wills and Admons index?
32/941
Patrick McLAUGHLIN
Date of Grant 8 Oct 1886 Date of death 19 Feb 1879
Occupation Labourer Residence Sandhurst
VPRS 7591/ P2 unit 117, item 32/941
Cando
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Thanks Sparrett---I'll go with your information on the BD&M Vict...thank you.
Informant is really hard to read...looks like Robert Farman Faiend ? of Kangaroo Flat
And 10 children listed...
Yes Cando---found it thank you.
Trying to work out how he got here...unskilled labourer - surely not an assisted Immigrant ?
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Thanks Sparrett---I'll go with your information on the BD&M Vict...thank you.
Informant is really hard to read...looks like Robert Farman Faiend ? of Kangaroo Flat
And 10 children listed...
Yes Cando---found it thank you.
Trying to work out how he got here...unskilled labourer - surely not an assisted Immigrant ?
Why do you think he would not be an assisted immigrant? Would he or his family have been in a financial position to pay his full fare to Australia? If he paid his own fare and arrived c1849 as an unassisted immigrant then you won't find his arrival in Victoria. Unassisted passengers are only recorded at PROV from 1852.
Cando
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Yeah Cando, ...?? his Father a stone mason (meaning another Labourer) in 1849 most of IRE is starving...could- would - should they have paid Patricks fare at age 24 ?...as you can tell I'm not really convinced just yet.
As far as "Assisted Immigrant" goes, I was under the impression that was for skilled tradesman & young girls, to build a colony.
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Thanks Sparrett---I'll go with your information on the BD&M Vict...thank you.
Informant is really hard to read...looks like Robert Farman Faiend ? of Kangaroo Flat
And 10 children listed...
Yes Cando---found it thank you.
Trying to work out how he got here...unskilled labourer - surely not an assisted Immigrant ?
Is perhaps the last word there FRIEND.
This would be attributed to the relationship of informant to deceased.
So the question arises-
Would this friend really know when Patrick came?
OR
Would the person informing the friend really know?
Depends who was informing the informant :P
Sue
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Yes Sue, I thought it may be Friend but thought I may sound stupid saying that :)
But Checking across the Doc ... yes Robert Farman "Friend"---(please forgive my learners permit on)
Well where does that leave me ?---- a ship jumper, ex-convict , unassisted or assisted ???
At 24 he did have enough time to do a 7 year stint in VDL ?---& not want anybody to know.
(His fellow Father in Law did that--see previous posts)
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Yes not yeah ::) I'm a bit confused with your reasoning. You don't appear to understand the difference between assisted and unassisted immigrationt to Victoria. I would suggest that an unskilled labourer from Ireland, England or Scotland would more than likely have been an assisted immigrant which by definition was having all or part of the passage paid for by an outside agent, a private individual, usually a family member, the government, or a combination of three. I'm sure you can find further information about it on the net. It is possible his name has been recorded incorrectly so you will have to search for spelling variations.
Cheers
Cando
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Corrected Cando, ;)
I had other family members who were assisted under the "Bounty System" where the govt paid for skilled labour & their families to immigrate...I would have thought through the penal system there was enough unskilled Irish already in the colony ?---hence my questioning.
And I note he headed for the Gold Fields pretty quick--no crime in that & a popular move, but certainly not paying anybody back through any form of indenture.
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And I note he headed for the Gold Fields pretty quick--no crime in that & a popular move, but certainly not paying anybody back through any form of indenture.
What record or sighting do you have to support his date of arrival on the goldfields?
If you do not know when he arrived, how do you know the elapsed time between entry to Australia and arrival on the goldfields?
Sue
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Thanks Sue,
Patrick married 4/9/1851 Mary Anne McCann, Catholic b. 1832 Enniskillen- Fermanagh- Ireland.
Mary Anne or Marianne arrived in Port Phillip as an assisted immigrant aged 17, (daughter of Miles McCann - mother unknown) on the 10/1/1850 aboard vessel “DIADEM” .
She was one of 234 “Famine” orphan girls sent to the colony on the DAIDEM.
She one of five sisters who were all sent to the colony. So she is sorta well documented.
After 6 months --"marrying Patrick McLoughlin a gold miner of Kangaroo Gully."-( quote from Daidem Famine research available online)
So I now know he arrived in about 1849 (says his death certificate)---& living in the Gold Fields by Aug 1851, the very earliest period of the Rush.
I noted all those Births registrations you found were in various Gold Mining areas--so he was a chaser of Gold.
I know your right he has more than 12 months in Victoria b4 getting married & I don't know where, so he may have been paying off his Immigration Ticket somewhere ?---trying not to make a fantasy but it has to sit as "likely" as well. And I'm just a little uncomfortable with a single Irish Labourer in 1849 getting here assisted or unassisted --unless he claimed to have trade skills ??
How he got here is the key ...?
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..... And I'm just a little uncomfortable with a single Irish Labourer in 1849 getting here assisted or unassisted --unless he claimed to have trade skills ??
How he got here is the key ...?
Hi there,
I am not at all surprised that a single Irish labourer came to New South Wales in the years immediately prior to the separation of Victoria from NSW and therefore prior to the Gold Rushes. Afterall, Convictism had effectively ceased by 1840 to NSW and Britain had established Colonial Land and Emigration Commissioners, which effectively found the unskilled workforce needed to populate NSW. Here's a couple of live links :
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/agency/3050
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/agency/3051
I also doubt that a stone mason would be thought of as an unskilled labourer.
ADD
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/immigration-shipping-guide ... notice the 'Tips' re unassisted passengers ... steerage passengers ...
JM
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Thanks Majam, I note you always have some good stuff.
A Stone Mason today is a recognised skilled trade but back then I noticed it was often lumped in with Labourers --but I take your fair point.
I've searched those Colonial Index name searches for Assisted & Unassisted & just can't seem to get a match ??---hence my frustration.
You have given me a lesson, I thought Assisted meant Govt Paid ticket of which you were expected to bring a trade skill. (Bounty system)
Unassisted where you paid or a family member sponsored you out skilled or unskilled.
I noted a lot convicts were still being sent to VDL at that time & headed straight to Port Phillip when they had completed their sentence...many of those of course were unskilled labourers.
So although Vict. didn't get any directly they got their fair share of Ex Cons.
Without his ship entry we won't know what his trade was, any more suggestions ?
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Could he have been a "Exile" ?
Is there anywhere I can find the complete ships lists for those 9 ships that transported the Exiles to Port Phillip ?
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https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convict-exiles-index
JM
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Patrick O’LOUGHLIN, tried at Clare 4 July 1848, sentenced to 7 years, arrived per Havering 1849. Ticket of Leave 49/929, to remain in the Yass district. AND NOTICE the next ToL was 49/930 issued to John O’LOUGHLIN who had also been tried at Clare on the same day (4 July 1848) and sentenced to 7 years and also arrived on that same vessel and also to remain in the Yass district.
And another candidate :
Patrick O’LOUGHLIN, aged 18, farm labourer, of Carron in Clare, parents as Michael and Mary, both dead, Roman Catholic, can neither read nor write, no relatives in the colonies, arrived 2nd September 1849 per the vessel Victoria as an Assisted Immigrant.
JM
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Thanks MJM..
In 1849 he should be about 24 ...
Yass NSW ? He was getting married in Melbourne by 1851.
I think wrong Fella's...
I think I need check those lists from the 9 Ships between 1842-1849--Port Phillip
Royal George 1842
Sir George Seymour 1845
Stratheden 1846
Maitland 1846
Thomas Arbuthnot 1847
Joseph Somes 1847
Marion 1848
Anna Maria 1848
Eden 1849
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The live index link I provided earlier will have some those voyages. You don't need to fill in all the options... so perhaps just enter Patrick and the name of the ship ....
JM
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Yes MJM--searched that link, got a zero....
Actually I have noted that the name Patrick takes quite a while to be passed down to his sons..We have John, Peter, Michael, James then finally a Patrick- later a Myles turns up clearly a reference to Myles McCann...
Is Patrick an Alias ?
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Hi Helpers,
I have found a James aged 18, Patrick 22 & Michael 42 (a stonemason) & wife Mary & their 3 children all from Roscommon IRE immigrating per Adam Lodge arriving FEB 1840 to NSW. As a group they all worked together on arrival at "Merton" for the Ogilvie family.
I also note neither James or Patrick (of the various McLaughlin spellings) seemed to get married in NSW (up to 1855 anyway). But a James in 1855 & of course Patrick married in Vict ?
What do you think a chance ??
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Okay just for other researches....I have found the Family and happy to share.
The McLaughlin family from Roscommon IRE, immigrated to NSW per vessel Adam Lodge in Feb 1840. Records show Michael McLaughlin aged 42, a stonemason, his wife Mary (nee Redican), farm servant, Henry age 11, Michael 9, Mary 12 also the older McLaughlin sons Patrick aged 22 & James aged 18. (For reasons of securing their passage Michael made himself younger; likely born 1788)
The older boys from his first marriage with Janitha Forrest of East Carricknahorna, Aghanagh Co. both registered as “Butlers” & employed by William Ogilvie at “Merton” (todays town of Denman in the upper Hunter Valley ) on arrival.
In time the McLaughlinʼs had made their way south to Port Phillip, Victoria.
Michael McLaughlin a stonemason died 8th May 1855 in Napier St Collingwood Victoria.
Patrick inherited the property.
Patrick McLaughlin of Heidelberg st Collingwood, Melbourne, married in St Francis Catholic Church Melbourne 4/9/1851 to Mary Anne McCann, a Catholic b.1832 from Enniskillen-Fermanagh- Ireland. However with the onset of the Gold Rush the married Patrick & Mary Anne soon set off for the Kangaroo Gully Gold Fields in Sandhurst (now Bendigo).
Mary Anne McCann or Marianne arrived in Port Phillip as an assisted immigrant aged 17,(daughter of Miles McCann - mother unknown) on the 10/1/1850 aboard vessel “DIADEM” arriving after 87 days at sea from Plymouth. She was one of 234 “Famine” orphan girls sent to the colony per the vessel DAIDEM as female domestic help and future wives to the men of a growing Colony. She one of five sisters who were all sent to the colony. Originally she was from the work house in Enniskillen-Fermanagh and had been living with her aunt for the previous eight months.
On arrival she was employed and registered as an illiterate house servant. She earned 8 pounds per annum working for a Patrick Murphy of little Lonesdale St Melbourne for 6 months before marrying. At Hyde park barracks in Sydney there is a Memorial to the Famine Orphans sent to Australia in that period--her name is on it.
They had 10 children... 2nd eldest was Michael McLoughlin b.1854-d.1942 (my Fathers Great GF)
Mary Anne died in Port Melbourne 1/3/1887 of pneumonia and exhaustion.
Patrick born 1817, died 19/2/1879 --Kangaroo Flats- Bendigo Creek Victoria.