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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Tidgy on Wednesday 15 November 17 11:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi All
A quick question if I may….
I am intrigued by an ancestor who died in WW1. John Gayden b1891 died on 8th July 1916 and on his soldiers effects record it states the death as “An Accident”.
Normally I would purchase the death cert, but because this is a WW1 death I have no idea if the cert would disclose any detail of the death.
Does anyone know if this would benefit me or are the death records of soldiers who died in the War just a record of death without further info?
Thank you
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Where did he die?
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France and Flanders Western European Theatre
Enlistment Place Hackney Baths, Middx.
Rank Gunner
Regiment Royal Garrison Artillery
Regimental Number 6942
Type of Casualty Died
Theatre of War Western European Theatre
Comments Formerly 125, Hackney Bty., R.G.A.
Other Records John Gayden -
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If the relevant War Diary has survived it might be noted there.
Do you have his service record or was it one of those lost in the Blitz?
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No service record survived the Blitz, I have located the Soldiers Effects record and that is where the death is recorded as "an Accident"
I'd be happy to purchase the access to the relevant war diary if anyone can help me locate it?
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Some are available on Ancestry. I was looking for one very recently..... RootsChatter MaxD came to my aid and located the incident I was hunting....an "OR" got injured.
If you do not have a subscription you can usually find that your local library will have a subscription on their computers or you can purchase the diary on the National Archives site.
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Thank you nanny, I have a subscription and have searched extensively. I believe I have got all the records i can from it, but still no joy on the service record.
What i'd really like to know is, will it be worth my buying a death certificate? Will there be one and do they hold 'cause of death' information for War deaths?
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The War Diary search can be very frustrating but those on the Armed Forces board might be able to find it for you.
I only have a WW2 death cert for my uncle who was in the RAF....cause of death...."Air Operations". His plane was shot down.
I don't know how WW1 death certs would record the details; again those on the Armed Forces board might have knowledge of them.
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His entry on CWGC site gives....152nd Heavy Battery.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/74376/gayden,-/
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Unfortunately, his detailed service record has not survived.
Another source(as Nanny Jan points out) to look at is the war diary of his battery. The Effects Register and his medal record show it as 152 (not 125) Heavy Battery Royal Garrison Artillery (the Hackney Gunners) who went to France in April 1916.
Thanks to this web site http://www.hackneygunners.co.uk the war diary can be read here http://www.hackneygunners.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/War-Diary-Full-Landscape-Watermarked.pdf
There is nothing recorded in July relating to an accident. Had it been related to a gun or to ammunition, I am sure it would have been recorded as that would affect the battery capability so (guesswork follows) an accident involving horses, vehicles, heavy stores are the sort of possibilities.
Generally, it was important, where it could be established, to ensure an accidental death was recorded as such. The core of it was that it was not by enemy action. I do not know, but there may have been an effect on any pension claim. I have seen mention of a death cert recording killed in action when the Effects Register says accident so wouldn't like to guess what the cert might say.
MaxD
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Thank you. I've found a transcript of the 152d Batt War Diary, but there is no further information on those dates.
I've also searched newspapers on FindMyPast but no luck.
Intriguingly the date of death on the grave registration form is the 9th July, yet the date on the gravestone is the 8th July.
Such mystery. I guess there is only one thing for it...part with some pennies! ;D
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What passes for an overseas WW1 death certificate is usually very lacking in detail but you can sometimes come across helpful comments such as "drowned".
Imber
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No further detail I'm afraid, but the attached is from the daily list published in the Times 7 Aug 1916
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I've also searched newspapers on FindMyPast but no luck.
The most likely paper to report his death in any detail is the local paper where his family were living - which may not be on FindMyPast (coverage of smaller papers during the war years is pretty poor).