RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Chiad Fhear on Wednesday 15 November 17 14:47 GMT (UK)
-
Hi there
William Dickinson Smith was born on 17 February 1889 in 26 Mid Street, Dundee, Forfarshire s/o James Smith (1856-1938) and Jane Ann McIntosh (1853-1928).
William married Matilda Sturrock Mill (1891-1945), d/o William Mill (1863-1915) and Barbara Dick Heggie (1865-1908), on 17 July 1912 in 7 Alexander Street, Dundee, Forfarshire. Matilda is recorded as a "Widow" in a subsequent Register of Marriage for her in November 1920.
I am at a loss to find details of William's death ??? although there are three possibilities - (CWGC) WW1 KIA 24 Nov 1914, WW1 KIA 30 July 1917 or (National Archives) Web: UK, Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen, 1914-1925.
Is there anyone with further knowledge willing to help me?
Regards
Chiad Fhear
-
Hi,
Have you had a look at the valuation rolls for 1915/1920? There's a Mrs Matilda Smith (widow) showing in 1915 at 287 Blackness Rd she's still there in 1920. If that's the address on your Matilda's marriage certificate in 1920 then it's an indication William died prior to 1915.
Jen
-
Hi jennywren001
Appreciate your response.
The Register of Marriage for Matilda's second marriage on 2 November 1920 shows her address as 48 Wellgate, Dundee - just a stone's throw from Blackness Road - but Blackness Road doesn't appear for her, her first or second spouses.
The 1915 Valuation Roll information is a clue towards William being the WW1 casualty on 24 November 1914 though.
Regards
Chiad Fhear
-
Sorry, the Blackness Rd woman is still there in 1920 - another Matilda Smith is at 47 Wellgate in 1920...so no clue :-\
Jen
-
Now we're getting somewhere Jen
In the 1920 Register of Marriage, Matilda was residing at 48 Wellgate, Dundee. Relevant section of the record attached.
Chiad Fhear
-
Not sure how complete this is - Dundee WW1 war dead...there's a W D Smith listed - Sergeant in the Black Watch.
http://www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/DundeeROHS.pdf
Can I ask how you know he died in the war? Did his marriage certificate indicate he was in a branch of the services? Were any children born to the couple?
Jen
-
Hi Jen
Just trawling the 'net for more about William before your message arrived and found the information you refer to.
I had already elected to search this site: https://www.greatwardundee.com/the-home-front/dundee-war-memorials/ (https://www.greatwardundee.com/the-home-front/dundee-war-memorials/) where William's address is shown as 64 Hilltown. In the 1901 Census I found the Smith family residing at 61 Hilltown with William age 12.
The 1912 Register of Marriage for William and Matilda has no reference to him being in any branch of the services. He is shown as a "Calender Worker" aged 23 and residing at 7 Alexander Street - where the couple were married. Matilda's address is given as 54 Hilltown.
I've been unable to find any "issue" from the marriage - Smith is a nightmare of a name to follow ::) - and so, in the absence of any death information in the Scottish Records in Edinburgh, and Matilda being shown as a widow in 1920, it seemed logical to assume that William was a casualty of the First World War.
Regards
Chiad Fhear
-
64 Hilltown in 1915 there are three male 'Smiths' living - not sure how big this tenement was? There's a Thomas on the ground floor, a George 2 up and a William - no indication of which floor...People were packed in like rats in Dundee :(
Jen
Interesting photo from about the 1930s...all gone now. I suspect 64 was up the pend but that's only a guess..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118069284@N05/33414545462
Sorry a bit off topic ;)
-
Hi Jen
Interesting old picture! Your assumption of living conditions in Dundee at the time is about right :o
I've discovered that there's a "WILLIAM DICKINS SMITH" born 1915 St Clements (Dundee) on ScotlandsPeople. The middle name is possibly shortened from DICKINSON. The results tend to be abbreviated at times where long names are involved. Could be "issue" so I'll need to check it out.
Chiad Fhear
-
There's a death of a Jane Ann McIntosh Smith, mother's maiden surname Mill, in 1994 in Perth, aged 83.
Jane Ann McIntosh Mill was born in Dundee in 1911, birth registered in both St Clement and St Peter.
I think I'd check her out too, if I were you.
-
Hi Forfarian, thanks for joining the thread and for the information!
All the family names are in there! It seems like Jane Ann came on the scene before the nuptuals :o
This is starting to look as if I'm going to HAVE TO go over to Edinburgh again soon to do some more checking although free time is in short supply at the moment.
Chiad Fhear
-
Hi Jen and Forfarian
Just "bit the bullet" and bought some credits on SP ;)
Jane Ann McIntosh Smith (Illegitimate) born 23 February 1911 at 62 Taylor's Lane, St Clement, Dundee.
Parents William and Matilda (domicil 54 Hilltown)
William Dickinson Davis Smith born 21 April 1915 at 64 Hilltown, St Clement, Dundee
Parents William and Matilda - William: Private 4th Battn. R.H.B.W.
There were two marriages on SP for a Jane Ann McIntosh Smith - and I chose the wrong one to start with >:( - but the second one is correct (now Thomson). Her death can wait 'til I go to Edinburgh again.
Chiad Fhear
-
Hmmm. One child in 1911, one in 1915 - I would be looking for one in about 1913 as well ....
The words 'haystack' and 'needle' spring to mind, not in that order. There are 232 births of Smiths in Dundee from 1912 to 1914.
There could also be a child in 1916/1917/1918.
-
There is an entry on the register of soldiers effects on Ancestry that may fit. William Smith, sergeant in the Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) who died from wounds on 12/1/1918. Legatee was his widow Matilda.
-
There's a NA Medal Card for William Smith , private Royal Highlanders Regiment No 2664 and 200416
(200416 is the number given on one of your earlier links).
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?lastName=smith&serviceNumber=200416
ev
Added -
Posts crossed , that looks good IsobelW :)
-
From the Dundee Courier 19/1/1918. William's regimental number was 200416.
-
Hmmm. One child in 1911, one in 1915 - I would be looking for one in about 1913 as well ....
The words 'haystack' and 'needle' spring to mind, not in that order. There are 232 births of Smiths in Dundee from 1912 to 1914.
There could also be a child in 1916/1917/1918.
Ye cannae argue wi' that Forfarian ;)
One of the witnesses at daughter Jane Ann McIntosh Smith's marriage was "James Smith, 20 Tannadice Street." - perhaps her brother?
Further searches for "issue" can wait until I go over to Edinburgh again - the Scot in me hates wasting credits! That said, the recent image posted here only mentions TWO children!
Chiad Fhear
-
From the Dundee Courier 19/1/1918. William's regimental number was 200416.
Thanks for The Courier image "isobelw" ... it answers my initial question I should think!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
-
There's a NA Medal Card for William Smith , private Royal Highlanders Regiment No 2664 and 200416
(200416 is the number given on one of your earlier links).
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?lastName=smith&serviceNumber=200416
ev
Added -
Posts crossed , that looks good IsobelW :)
Thanks "ev" - everything comes to those who wait!
Chiad fhear
-
Further searches for "issue" can wait until I go over to Edinburgh again - the Scot in me hates wasting credits! That said, the recent image posted here only mentions TWO children!
That's a relief, then :)
-
There is an entry on the register of soldiers effects on Ancestry that may fit. William Smith, sergeant in the Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) who died from wounds on 12/1/1918. Legatee was his widow Matilda.
Sorry to bother you again isobelw - could you send me a link for this please? I can't locate it ::)
NO NEED - I'VE GOT IT
Chiad Fhear
-
Thanks everyone! Search completed!
Chiad Fhear
-
:) :) :)