RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ju1 on Thursday 16 November 17 14:01 GMT (UK)
-
I have a g granddad who I have on the 1901 and 1911 census, from both of those he gives his birth year and place as -
Arthur William Woods b1866 Deptford, Kent
I can't find him on the GRO or anywhere else for that matter.
I can't find him on earlier census returns either. By 1901 he is in Yorkshire and by 1911 he is in Preston, lancashire.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Ju
-
so in 1911 he's using plain Arthur
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X49C-ZKJ
also in 1901 plain arthur.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9T2-H34
and his wife may be nee Walden
WOODS, MARY EVELYN WALDEN 1911 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 536
WOODS, SARAH ALICE WALDEN 1907 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 577
-
Yes that's right.
He uses his middle name on his daughters birth cert and on his marriage entry uses his middle name.
Ju
-
when &where did he wed?
-
He married the women he had been living with since at least 1901 in 1933! She was in reality still married to another chap but left him for Arthur around 1899. I can only summise that it took that long to get a divorce in order to marry Arthur.
Mary A Capell m Arthur William Wood Preston 8e 1620
Ju
-
does he give any father's information on that?
-
I have only just sent for the marriage cert so won't know till it arrives.
Ju
-
I have only just sent for it so don't know till it arrives.
Ju
-
I now have the marriage certificate for him,
His fathers name is Charles deceased at time of marriage (1933)
His name on this is given as Arthur William WOOD despite being Woods on everything else including all his childrens birth certs.
His age is 64 on 17th July 1933
Ju
-
I think Deptford come under Greenwich area so this could be him...
Arthur William Wood. 1868 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 730
-
Him
I was just looking at that birthm Yes it certainly fits though no mothers maiden name.
I usually assume that if the mother is unmarried it might give no maiden name or sometimes the given name and maiden name are the same. But as he gives his father as Charles it would look like Wood/s is his fathers name. I will send for this certificate and see.
Still no luch finding him on 1871/1881/1891 cebsus.
Thanks you for your support!
Ju
-
His fathers name is Charles deceased at time of marriage (1933)
His name on this is given as Arthur William WOOD despite being Woods on everything else including all his childrens birth certs.
He was WOOD on the 1901 Census
I usually assume that if the mother is unmarried it might give no maiden name or sometimes the given name and maiden name are the same. But as he gives his father as Charles it would look like Wood/s is his fathers name. I will send for this certificate and see.
It was extremely common for illegitimate persons to put a wrong name, or a cobbled together name, of a father on a Marriage record. For example, sometimes they put the first name of a stepfather or a grandfather, but not the surname, instead just using the name they were born with (eg WOODS)
He married the women he had been living with since at least 1901 in 1933! She was in reality still married to another chap but left him for Arthur around 1899. I can only summise that it took that long to get a divorce in order to marry Arthur.
Prior to around WW1, Divorce in England was rare, expensive and difficult - even for those in the upper classes. Could it be rather, that the legal spouse only died around 1933?
Here's a possible:
1871: At 17 Edward Street West, Deptford , Kent
RG10/ Piece 746;/ Folio 32A/ Pg5
Head: Charles TURNER 43, Boiler Maker, b London, Middlesex
Wife: Mary Ann TURNER 50, b London, Middlesex
Son: William John TURNER 21, unm, Hammerer Iron Works, b London, Middlesex
Dau: Mary Ann TURNER 18, unm, b London, Middlesex
Grandson: Robert WOOD 5, b Greenwich, Kent
Grandson: Arthur WOOD 2, b Deptford, Kent
Visitor: Charles ASHWOOD 20, visitor, Sail maker, b Crawley, Surrey
GRO BIRTH Registrations:
Robert George WOOD, 1863, Greenwich - mms -----
Arthur William WOOD, 1868, Greenwich - mms -----
William John TURNER, 1849, Dec Qtr, St Luke Middlesex - mms WOOD
Mary Ann TURNER 1852, St Luke Middlesex - mms WOOD
BAPTISM 1849 At Lukes Finsbury:
William John TURNER, born 18th Oct, bap 11 Nov 1849
Parents: William & Mary Ann TURNER, White Cross Street. Occ: Porter
and after the birth/baptism, the ....
MARRIAGE: January 16th 1850, St Andrew Holborn
Charles TURNER, full age, bachelor, Porter, of Charles Street.
Father: William TURNER, Painter & Glazier
Mary Ann WOOD, full age spinster, of Charles Street.
Father: John WOOD, Sawyer
Witness: Samuel Major HICKS and Edward MALLETT Junr.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Yes I agree that him giving his fathers name as Charles may not be reliable. He hasn't been honest on census returns stating Mary Ann was his wife on both 1901 and 1911, he even says they have been married for 18yrs.
I too now wonder if her first husband dies around 1933 hence the marriage.
Thank you for the possible 1871 census entry, i will keep that on file and see what the birth cert turn up.
Thank you for your assistance,
ju
-
I notice that on the 1881 census for the Tuner Family that both Robert and Arthur are now listed as Turner.
Ju
-
I think Deptford come under Greenwich area so this could be him...
Arthur William Wood. 1868 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 730
This certificate has now arrived -
Born - 29th August 18 Sydney terrace, Edward St, West Deptford.
Arthur William Wood
Fathers details are left blank.
Mother Emma Wood
I'm not sure what to think now, it could be my chap, it's a good fit.
ju
-
With the address off the 1868 Birth Cert and the 1871 Census being as good as a match with Edward Street ( the house number 17 or 18 isn't an issue, people often moved to different dwellings in the same street; the addition of 'Sydney Terrace' on the Birth cert also isn't an issue) - I think you could be pretty much assured the 1868 birth cert is for the boy in the 1871 Census.
As to whether he is also your g-gf, it's looking very reasonable to say he is.
The name, with the middle name - Arthur William, is a match.
The name Charles given as his father of your g-gf's marriage lines - matches the father figure in the 1871 Census.
I would be looking for an Emma WOOD, being either a daughter of Charles and Mary Ann, or maybe a younger sister of Mary Ann - or as outlined below an illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann….
In the 1881 Census you've found and mentioned in Deptford:
RG11 Piece 705/ Folio/ 101/ Page52
the boys Robert and Arthur, and now listed as sons age 14 and 12.
The age of Robert in the 1871 (5) and 1881 (14) Census, doesn't match the 1863 Birth registration (I'd been hoping the 1871 Census age was a mistake) but I'd still be curious to see if the 1863 Birth is the same mother as the 1868 for Arthur?
Charles and Mary Ann are already found in Deptford in 1851, 1871 and 1881. The only child with them in those 3 Census is a son named William (aged 1 in 1851, age 21 in 1871 and age 31 in 1881).
But here is the 1861 Census for the family:
17 Clifton Road, Deptford
RG 9 Piece 393 / Folio 58/ Page 11
Head: Charles TURNER, 34, Labourer at ?Sewers?, b Middlesex St Lukes
Wife: Mary A TURNER 39, Laundress, b Canterbury Kent
Dau: Anna TURNER 15, Laundress, b Southwark, Surrey
Son: William TURNER 11, b St Lukes, Middlesex
Dau: Mary A TURNER 8, b St Lukes, Middlesex
Brother: Richard TURNER 32, unm, Police Constable, b Nuthurst, Sussex
Now there are two more TURNER children:
* Anna, born about 1846 (before they married) who would be about 22 in 1868 - and about 17 in 1863 (when Arthur's older brother Robert WOOD was born)
* Mary A, born about 1853 (within the marriage) who would be about 15 in 1868, but only 10 in 1863.
I would turn to 'Anna' first as being the potential mother 'Emma' for your g-gf and of Robert. She may be a WOOD by birth and not Charles' Turner's daughter
So where is she in 1851?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
There is this Emma Wood...
Emma Wood. 1850 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 05 Page 244 mmn Spencer.