RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: LizzieL on Saturday 18 November 17 12:47 GMT (UK)
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I have recently joined our local U3A (University of the Third Age) and am interested in joining the family history group that they run. I contacted the group leader and she said she would send me a form to be completed and returned before I join. I was expecting a form asking for my contact details and a short questionnaire with general questions about my research - how long, resources used / aware of, country / county of research etc. However when the form came today, it was an Ahnentafel wanting details (dob, place of birth, marriage date and place, death date and place (as applicable) of myself, my parents etc going back to my 2 x great grandparents.
Why would a family history group leader need all that information before I join? I am now a bit wary of giving all these details, even just year of events.
What does anyone think?
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I'd be asking why they want those details.
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As a one time faceless bureaucrat, I was always taught never to ask for information that you didn't need.
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As a one time faceless bureaucrat, I was always taught never to ask for information that you didn't need.
Yes, but these people are presumably all 'amateur' and 'volunteers' ???
Maybe they are wary of people wanting to join and expecting everything to be done for them.
As a long time library assistant in our local FHS, I can tell you that the stories are legend of the number of people who walk off the street (never mind about joining up!) and ask along the lines of "my people came from xx - what detail can you give me". Sometimes without even giving a name!
Our research officer once received an enquiry "My grandparents lived in a white house on stilts in Brisbane. Can you please send me a photo of the house"
As this could have been half the houses in Brisbane at the time, it was some time before we could all stop rolling round the floor laughing, when said RO told us about it ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
I'd agree with Pauline.
But do join if you can - in our FHS we often do have some come in and start talking, only to find there's someone in the library who's related to the same family, so suddenly both parties have found a new cousin etc. :) :) :)
Dawn M
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Amateurs have even less justification in asking for un-necessary information. If you are asked for something irrelevant, suspect a scam.
As I'm sure you know, people in the public sector are asked all sorts of stupid questions - I was once asked for information about a particular building an "aircraft hangar spotter" had seen whilst driving round the M60! There are ways of dealing with such people.
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I would not give that much information just to join a group. Definitely excessive. Why do they want all that info? Also where is it stored, who would have access to it etc? I think it raises all sorts of data protection issues if nothing else. I don't know what country you are in, but are there privacy/data protection laws in place? If so, it would seem that they are in breach by asking those questions.
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I joined a group once, online, and was asked to be specific about where I lived. I refused and duly got immediately banned. Not sorry.
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I would not give that much information just to join a group. Definitely excessive. Why do they want all that info? Also where is it stored, who would have access to it etc? I think it raises all sorts of data protection issues if nothing else. I don't know what country you are in, but are there privacy/data protection laws in place? If so, it would seem that they are in breach by asking those questions.
I agree, just imagine what someone could do with all that information, especially as some of your family are presumably still alive :o
Is there no other local family history group that you could join ?
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I would think that they are asking for too much info. I would just discard the form and try a FH group that does not ask for extra details that can be a touchy subject and personal.
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@ LizzieL
Have you asked them why they require all that information or do you intend to ? If you do ask them it would be interesting to see what explanation they give. (Oh and I would not give all that information as I can see no justifiable reason why they should need it).
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You could always tell them you have a family tree on Ancestry and make it up ;D
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"Why do you find it so unbelievable that my father, grandfather, brothers and uncles are all called Joe Bloggs? It's a FAMILY name!"
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Your profile does not indicate where about in England you are, but most counties are covered by local Family History Societies under the National Federation. I would strongly advise joining one of these, for a small annual subscription you get quarterly journals and the opportunity to attend meetings.
You can either join a Society local to you, or one in the area your family have connections to, I belong to several. If one meets close to where you live, then you can attend their meetings and listen to some expert speakers, you get the chance to discuss your problems with others who can often help with tips and advice.
Joining a Society in county where your family lived, gives you the chance of contacting people with good local knowledge. A Society often has its own research centre where they hold a their own records and transcriptions, members will often do local research for you, look for graves or take photographs of places you can't visit from a distance.
You certainly would not be asked for any personal details, just your name and address. It will then be up to you to register the names you are researching in their members interests section if you wish, this gives you the chance to find if others are searching the same families.
I have made lots of contacts, and received help over the years, and have reciprocated. I hope you find this suggestion of help.
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It was joining our local U3A family history group that got us started on family history many years ago, although we did not fill in any forms our leader, who was a rootschatters then, needed to know these details to get us started, but kept no records.
It sounds like your U3A is more for getting people started, rather than a group meeting to discuss finer details of wills and and land records, I think you may be too advanced for them. :) :)
Some U3As are very formal and take things very seriously, others like ours are informal and very friendly, with everyone contributing.
It is amazing what knowledge is out there amongst the retired generation.
Mike
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Amateurs have even less justification in asking for un-necessary information.
Agree, Ray, I was just trying to rationalise some reasoning behind their form ???
Dawn M
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Gosh, I've just realised, very often the first thing we ask a newcomer to rootschat is "tell us what you already know", and yes i appreciate thisdoes not include personal information, but the principle is the same.
Mike
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My local U3A allows members to attend one meeting of a group they are interested in, to see whether it suits them before committing to joining.
Perhaps your U3A also allows this.
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Just remember that many organisations use your mother's maiden name as part of their "security".
Martin
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Gosh, I've just realised, very often the first thing we ask a newcomer to rootschat is "tell us what you already know", and yes i appreciate thisdoes not include personal information, but the principle is the same.
Mike
Well, yes, but that's so people don't spend time looking for info the OP already knows.
A bit different to asking for everything they know before they can join a group ???
Lizzie maybe you could 'sound out' some of the U3A members who are already part of the FH group, to see what it's all about? Or just ask the person who sent you the form.
Are they the only FH group in your area? Another group may be more welcoming ???
Dawn M
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If I joined a FH society that wanted my mothers maiden name I'd say "Bloggs" or "Soap". ;D
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Just remember that many organisations use your mother's maiden name as part of their "security".
Martin
It doesn't need to be your mother's maiden name, they ask that for simplicity, that is why I always use a totally different unrelated name. Sometimes they ask the name of your first pet instead, then I use the name of a Friend's pet. If at any time you are asked to verify who you are, you just have to remember the names you used when registering.
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My local U3A allows members to attend one meeting of a group they are interested in, to see whether it suits them before committing to joining.
Perhaps your U3A also allows this.
Ours does too so you should check if you are able to do this. I don’t go to the FH group in my U3A but I know there are now 3 genealogy groups because of the popularity of the subject.
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Just remember that many organisations use your mother's maiden name as part of their "security".
Martin
Yes but only the naive actually do that, I use a mixture of letters numbers and if possible symbols.
As I have mentioned many times before and most probably will many times in the future the use of any name, pet's name chocolate bar etc., is not only poor security it is worse than having no security.
It gives the naive a false sense of security and leaves them vulnerable.
This was well know by banks etc. way back in the 1980s and leaves them open to compensation claims from people defrauded by such use.
Cheers
Guy
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Use of mother’s maiden name is not used for security in the sense of a password which you perhaps mean Guy but as part of a security check by some organisations. This may now have stopped for the reasons you give.
However, I am sure that a reputable organisation like The U3A would not be using information for anything untoward but it seems an odd way to enrol a member.
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I was just thinking, is the form for your own use?
Perhaps new members who haven’t got a tree, would fill that in so they could see the gaps and decide where to begin the research.
I run one U3A group and attend another but did not have to fill anything in other than the general joining form.
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My apologies for this :o
Surely the OP - LizzieL - should go back to the Group on U3A and ask them the question as to why they are asking for so much information. Whatever anyone else believes is irrelevant to the particular situation.
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You don’t need to apologise. It’s your opinion. :)
You are of course correct but Lizzie asked and most of the replies advise what you suggest.
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Thanks for all your replies, have been on holiday for a month, so I've been reading posts, but ancient phone not really up to typing very much.
I went along to the December meeting and it seemed the form was not intended to be an application form to join as I was originally told but to record my own family on for my own benefit. A bit redundant in my case as I had gone further back on all sides ( apart from an illegitimate ancestor with unknown father) than the form had room for and have all my records on FTM software. There were only two others at the meeting, one also being the leader of another FH group for the same U3A.
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Was the meeting of benefit, will you be returning :-\
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I'm not sure I benefited much from the one meeting I've been to so far, but I'll go to the next one. I was expecting some group discussion and the opportunity to help others if I can, but instead it was more like a classroom with the leader just concentrating on helping one person at a time with their research, while others waited their turn with no involvement. There should be two more members of the group, maybe it will be better if there's more than three of us next time. The leader has many years experience in FH and a lot of reference books, but doesn't seem to be quite up to speed on what's now available on the Internet.
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Let us know how you get on. I often wonder about joining something similar to replace my weekly visit to my local LDS family history centre that closed down a few years ago. That was a small group of 6-8 but we used to help each other and discuss family history but it was before all of this information came on line. Some of us are still in contact now ;D