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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Bobmills6 on Sunday 19 November 17 06:25 GMT (UK)
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Looking to find a record for my great grandad Ambrose Mills, he on 1881.census Woodford Essex. No other record of him birth baptism. Thanks
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
To help others......the 1881 census gives a birth in 1862 in Hertford; he is with his grandparents Moses and Fanny Smith.
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Welcome to rootschat
Have you investigated this birth registration
AMBROSE MILLS mothers maiden name DRAPER
1863 Dec Quarter
HITCHIN reg dist Volume 03A Page 263
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Thanks that's look might be his not sure about Draper for mum name. will send off for it an see.
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Are you aware of the trial by the GRO of a PDF instead of a paper certificate? Cost is £6 instead of the usual £9.25.
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Just linking the 1881 census entry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27D-Q3S3
Moses & Fanny 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGC4-JW2
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Thanks that's look might be his not sure about Draper for mum name. will send off for it an see.
Don't rush into it in case someone comes up with more information
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Do you know when and who he married? A copy of the certificate should give the name and occupation of his father.
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These MAY be siblings of that Ambrose :-\
MILLS, ROSINA mmn DRAPER
1859 Sept Quarter
LUTON RD Volume 03B Page 420
MILLS, JOHN mmn DRAPER
1866 March Quarter
EPPING RD Volume 04A Page 84
MILLS, ELIAS mmn DRAPER
1868 Sept Quarter
HUNTINGDON RD Volume 03B Page 267
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Thank you for the help every body I carnt find the marriage certificate either. Will wait and see what that birth certificate has to say
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Thank you for the help every body I carnt find the marriage certificate either. Will wait and see what that birth certificate has to say
Who did he marry
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Think I have found it now thanks have sent for that too
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Hello Bob Mills
I hope you are well and the best of Luck in your Family research, you write of Woodford Essex, that's seams to be a great place for the Gipsies in the times you mentioned, in 1857 Selina Lee known a the Queen of the Gipsies was buried in Woodford church yard, Essex, it is said the local People cared for Her as She was getting Old, the age differs over several years of reporting but the press settle on a age of 103, they write She was laid in state in Epping forest, in 1882 the Chelmsford Chronicle mentions that there are upwards of a hundred Gipsy vans dwelling in Woodford, by the talk going on they don't like them much, and again in 1883 the Edinburgh News on 31 August talks of the Gipsy Encampment in Essex, Benjamin Sanderson of Woodford was summoned for permitting Vans Wigwams and Tents on His land, they really say bad things about the Gipsies, if they would of seen the Nottingham's inner City around the same time maybe they would not of thought so bad, there is a Travelling Man from Scotland talked about in 1879, His name is John Mills the King Of the Gipsies, on Thursday 10th of April 1879 in the Edinburgh Evening News it is stated that Mills was 60 years of age and from Ayrshire, they state He was a veteran of the traveling class, and held in High repute by the nomadic tribe, the rest of His story is very sad, is He from the Gipsies or locals, I do not know, journalists in a few papers refer to Him as the "King" or "Chief" of the Gipsies,
now this bit of information is I think more local to you, in 1879 on Thursday 2 of January in the Bristol Mercury, they write of the Wansworth police courts, they tell of two men who own the land of a Gipsy encampment, again they say real bad things of the Gipsies and say the two top men live also in vans on their land along with lots of Gipsy vans with smoke blowing out of the tops of the tents, now the two men that were charged in the court and lived in Vans and tents with their own large Family's, were named as Thomas Mills and William Penfold, there's a chance they maybe could be related to you,
I hope this information may lead you onwards, also there is much more in-depth information in these accounts, Good Luck
Leahcim
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Thanks for the information Panished is very intersting, they might be relations.
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Hello again Bob,
do you know the web sites that Sue as, She's a Famous Gipsy Scholar, I suppose you do, but encase you do not, look up the Romany Genes web sites, there are lots of references to the Mills Family on there pluss many names that lived along side them in all those old stopping grounds from long ago, you may evan write to Sue, I'm sure She would put you right on who was who, or if these Mills where related to those Mills, you can not take nothing for granted, you must just keep trying and follow every lead, these below are just little extracts from Sues websites, find those sites for all the full information's,
Web Sites
Romany Genes ........ S.J.Day
Romany Genes 2 ........ S.J.Day
Romanies Reunited.......S.J.Day
1861* Hemyock Devon
Cornelius Mills abt 1808 Sturminster Dorset Hd/Tin man/Basket maker
Cinderella Mills abt 1811 Southampton Wife
Susan Mills abt 1837 Sparkford, Somerset Daughter
Rosetta Mills abt 1844 Chinley, Devon Daughter
Matilda Mills abt 1847 Brad, Devon Daughter
Louisa Mills abt 1850 Staples, Somerset Daughter
Joseph Mills abt 1852 Gothurst, Somerset Son
1861* Hemyock County/Island: Devon
Cornelius Mills 53 hd Tin-man/basket/Maker b Sturminster, Dorset
Cinderella Mills 50 wife Basket/maker b Southampton
Joseph Mills 9 son b Gothurst, Somerset/Basket/maker
Louisa Mills 11 dau b Staples, Somerset,
Matilda Mills 14 dau b Brad, Devon/Basket/maker
Rosetta Mills 17 dau b Chinley, Devon/Basket/maker
Susan Mills 24 dau b Sparkford, Somerset/Basket/maker
1851 CENSUS LONG SUTTON HAMPSHIRE
ALL LISTED AS TRAVELLERS LIVING IN TENTS.
Ann Mills abt 1779 Herriard, Hampshire, Head
Frank Mills abt 1811 New Town, Hampshire, Son
Frank Mills 1838 Grewell, Hampshire, Grandson
1861 Census:Wandsworth:Surrey (Tents and Caravans)
(Palmers Field)
Joseph Mills 40 hd b Petersfield, Sussex
Naomi Mills 25 wife b Dorking, Surrey
Aaron Mills10 son b Chaley, Sussex
Eliza Mills 5 dau b Frogarts Heath, Kent
Susan Mills 3 dau b Wimbledon, Surrey
1891 Census*Hartley Wintney Hampshire*
Gypsies in tents and Caravans Hazely heath common
(all Gypsies or Hawkers.Note all in tents except Bulcher Buckland who had tent and a caravan!
Mills 6 weeks son
Evanglas Mills 2 son
Maud Mills 4 dau
Sabina Mills 22
Thomas Mills 21
1861 *Census* Middlesex : Hammersmith (In Tents) (Large camp )
Waste land on the West Side of Latimer Road called the Gipsies encampment)
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Francis Mills 50 clothes peg maker b Newham, Hampshire
Francis Mills 24 son bGroole, Hampshire
Henry Mills 17 son b Sutton, Hampshire
Mary Ann Mills 21 dau b Weston, Hampshire
1881
Caravan & Tent Birkbeck Estate Woodford Essex
Moses Smith 65 b Weathampstead Hertford Hd Gipsy
Fanny Smith 64 b Leicester Wife Gipsy
Fambridge Smith 17 b Loughton Essex Gipsy
Ambrose Mills 19 g/son b Hertford Gipsy
John Mills 9 nephew b Loughton Essex Gipsy
Galouse Mills 9 b Epping Essex Gr/son Gipsy
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Thanks again Panished. Very helpfull
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Bob I forgot this one , from Sues records, no need now to write back, there was also many stories of Freddy Mills, but I no doubt You know of Him, look Good Luck to All Your Family in this day and the Past, I do hope I tried for You, we will leave it there now, look after Yourself, never forget Gipsies are Good People, just normal , but with that little bit of Gipsy Pride, the rest don't see that, look after Yourself
Dorset County Gaol, Dorchester 1841(just ones noted Gypsy or Traveller)
Mary GREEN 45 F Higler Yes (all Prisoners)
Martha BOLT 25 F Hawker
Caroline JAMES 15 F Laceworker
Elizabeth HARVEY 25 F Hawker
William ORCHARD 15 M Basketmaker
Thomas MILLS 13 M Gypsy
Joseph MILLS 30 M Gypsy
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1881 West Ham, Woodford, Caravan & Tent, Birkbeck Estate Near White Hall Rd, Woodford, Essex
Ambrose Mills 19 g/son b Hertford Gipsy
John Mills 9 nephew b Loughton Essex Gipsy
Galouse Mills 9 b Epping Essex Gr/son Gipsy
What was the precise relation of these Mills family members to the Smiths please - who were their parents, how did the parents connect to Moses Smith?
Many thanks!
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Also notice "Galouse Mills 9, b. Epping Essex, Gr/son Gipsy" yet the 1891 census has "Golias" [age 20] as son of Moses Smith?
Galouse Mills [9] 1881
Golias Smith [20] 1891
are presumably the same person?