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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Gaming on Sunday 19 November 17 13:12 GMT (UK)
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How are you?
I hope you are doing well
my dear
I will talk about the life of my grandfather, who lived for nearly 15 years in Britain and served there
its name: Ahamed Chief
Born in Aden in 1898
Entry to Britain by the city of Aden
(https://a.top4top.net/p_688245mg7.png)
He has issued to him
Aliens Order, 1920 - Certificate of Registration
(https://a.top4top.net/p_688e09iw2.png)
(https://f.top4top.net/p_688eg0l11.png)
- He worked in the Royal Navy of the Royal Navy
- Once I’d been accepted I applied for a British Seaman’s Card and a Discharge Book
(https://b.top4top.net/p_688qxhz33.png)
(https://f.top4top.net/p_688na1p76.png)
(https://d.top4top.net/p_68811awh4.png)
(https://a.top4top.net/p_68899t0a1.png)
I found many papers in the box
Do these papers and documents have taken the British nationality
Please help me find information that helps me
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
There is a possible marriage to a Mary J Williamson in 1925 in South Shields but name is Chief Ahmed.
Sadly followed by a death for Chief Ahmed in 1928 also in South Shields.
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There is a merchant seaman card
Chief Ahmed Fireman
Born 29th August 1898 Aden
Nationality...British
Father...British
Also a photo and list of ships on which served.
Cathy
Added.. do not think this above is your man, photos not that similar and it looks like he was alive after 1928 from documents?
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thank you brother
I looked but I only found this
more information
I searched for information but I could only find this
He was married to Mary Jane Williamson Marshall
------------------------------
This is information about Mary
When Mary Jane Williamson Marshall was born in 1900 in South Shields, Durham, England, her father, William, was 23, and her mother, Elizabeth, was 21. She married chief ahmed on August 31, 1925, in her hometown. They had three children during their marriage. She died in 1992 in South Shields, Durham, England, at the age of 92.
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chief ahmed
1898–1928
BIRTH ABT 1898 • Yemen
DEATH 1928 • south shields
Chief ahmed was born in 1898 in Yemen, the son of Ahmed. He married Mary Jane Williamson Marshall on August 31, 1925, in South Shields, Durham, England. They had three children during their marriage. He died as a young father in 1928 in South Shields, Durham, England, at the age of 30.
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
There is a possible marriage to a Mary J Williamson in 1925 in South Shields but name is Chief Ahmed.
Sadly followed by a death for Chief Ahmed in 1928 also in South Shields.
Thank you brother, can you look for more?
But I did not know if he was the same person or not
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There is a merchant seaman card
Chief Ahmed Fireman
Born 29th August 1898 Aden
Nationality...British
Father...British
Also a photo and list of ships on which served.
Cathy
Added.. do not think this above is your man, photos not that similar and it looks like he was alive after 1928 from documents?
thank you brother
But I want to know more
I hope you help me
I looked at the museum for Lenny, but I found nothing but enough information
I hope to find some information
Or his photos
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
There is a possible marriage to a Mary J Williamson in 1925 in South Shields but name is Chief Ahmed.
Sadly followed by a death for Chief Ahmed in 1928 also in South Shields.
Thank you brother, can you look for more?
But I did not know if he was the same person or not
Without a copy of the marriage certificate no more details can be found but that bride is just shown as Mary J Williamson....no Marshall shown.
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You might find some help here:
http://www.theyemeniproject.org.uk/
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Hi
This is the Ahmed Chief born 29th August 1898 (see previous post)
Do you think he could be the same man?
Cathy
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South Shields has had an Arabic population for many years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/family-and-community/south-shields-yemeni-riots.shtml
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Hi
This is the Ahmed Chief born 29th August 1898 (see previous post)
Do you think he could be the same man?
Cathy
I do not think it matches the same person
(https://a.top4top.net/p_688qs3uj1.png)
What is this person's information?
(https://b.top4top.net/p_688ujzhs1.png)
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I personally think the 2 people in the 2 photos are the same person as the likeness on many aspects are very clear.
Eyes, Ears, Nose, Hairline, Chin...too alike not to be the same person.
Annie
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I personally think the 2 people in the 2 photos are the same person as the likeness on many aspects are very clear.
Eyes, Ears, Nose, Hairline, Chin...too alike not to be the same person.
Annie
There is a difference in eyebrow, ear and lip
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South Shields has had an Arabic population for many years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/family-and-community/south-shields-yemeni-riots.shtml
Very cool, it helped me a lot
But the most important thing is to look for my grandfather and I want information about him
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Very cool, it helped me a lot
But the most important thing is to look for my grandfather and I want information about him
I think this question was answered in the reply here from Nanny Jan;
Without a copy of the marriage certificate no more details can be found but that bride is just shown as Mary J Williamson....no Marshall shown.
Annie
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I have this paper what do you mean?
I understand he has an address and a phone number
I want to understand whether he holds a British passport under these papers or has British nationality
(https://a.top4top.net/p_68899t0a1.png)
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Do you have the marriage certificate to "Mary J Williamson....no Marshall"
Where did the surname Marshall come from?
Who was Ahmed Chief/Chief Ahmed's father & what was his father's occupation?
If you don't have that marriage there's no way of knowing if he's the correct man as the marriage will give his father's name, occupation & whether deceased which you can match up with what you know?
Annie
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To update:
I had a PM regarding the telephone documents. As far as I know it is just about hiring a telephone and does not indicate that he had a British passport or British nationality.
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Thanks N J,
I had the same PM but unfortunately the doc was/is too small to read but in any case it's not the type of document which would give a nationality never mind whether he held a British Passport :)
Annie
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You appear to be trying to find out if your grandfather was ever granted British Citizenship. None of the documents on this message board so far would suggest that he did. One document is a Canadian document, so unconnected with British nationality, and another is a UK Aliens Registration card which indicates that when it was issued in 1925, he definitely wasn’t a British Citizen.
The Home Office would normally have a record of someone acquiring British Citizenship. You could enquire from them whether he was ever granted it. (Normally you had to live in the UK for a certain number of years before you could apply. If he died in 1928, having only been in the country for 3 years it’s possible he hadn’t yet qualified. But I really don’t know).
If you are hoping to obtain British Citizenship yourself, based on your grandfather possibly having citizenship, my understanding is that in the UK it does not pass down 2 generations. But you would be best to take advice from a lawyer or advice body specializing in immigration law on that.
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It's usually best to work back step by step to find records.
If Chief Ahmed was your grandfather then who was your grandmother? Was your (father?/mother?) one of the children born South Shields? (remember not to post details of anyone who might still be living).
If your grandparents were not married to each other and your parent was illegitimate it might be harder to find details to prove any connection.
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You appear to be trying to find out if your grandfather was ever granted British Citizenship. None of the documents on this message board so far would suggest that he did. One document is a Canadian document, so unconnected with British nationality, and another is a UK Aliens Registration card which indicates that when it was issued in 1925, he definitely wasn’t a British Citizen.
The Home Office would normally have a record of someone acquiring British Citizenship. You could enquire from them whether he was ever granted it. (Normally you had to live in the UK for a certain number of years before you could apply. If he died in 1928, having only been in the country for 3 years it’s possible he hadn’t yet qualified. But I really don’t know).
If you are hoping to obtain British Citizenship yourself, based on your grandfather possibly having citizenship, my understanding is that in the UK it does not pass down 2 generations. But you would be best to take advice from a lawyer or advice body specializing in immigration law on that.
thank you brother
My father is still alive
Find More Posts by
We want to search for information
To know a lot
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If your father is still alive (DO NOT post his details here) then do you or does he know the name of his mother?
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It's usually best to work back step by step to find records.
If Chief Ahmed was your grandfather then who was your grandmother? Was your (father?/mother?) one of the children born South Shields? (remember not to post details of anyone who might still be living).
If your grandparents were not married to each other and your parent was illegitimate it might be harder to find details to prove any connection.
thank you brother
My father is still alive
Find More Posts by
We want to search for information
To know a lot
I know about my father talking about her father
He said he stayed for about 8-10 years
He was employed in Royal Navy
For the transport of goods and passengers
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In order for us to help you find more information you need to read each post very carefully and answer the questions we are asking (if you don't know the answer it's okay to say so but please do not keep repeating the same thing instead).
So,
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
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Another PM shows an Alien Registration document; I have no experience with these but do not think they show British citizenship.
Is anyone familiar with these documents and can explain what they are for?
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A citizen would not have been registered as an alien. Without more details difficult to say but perhaps dates from the time of WWI?
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Another PM shows an Alien Registration document; I have no experience with these but do not think they show British citizenship.
Is anyone familiar with these documents and can explain what they are for?
Yes I am familiar with Aliens Registration documents. When a foreign national was admitted to the UK, the immigration officer could require them to register with the police so that their whereabouts were known. It was a requirement introduced at the outset of WW1, to keep a track of “enemy aliens” etc, and was used to locate them when internment was introduced, and to monitor those allowed to remain at liberty. But after the war it was continued to ensure the authorities knew where most foreign nationals lived, in the event of needing to trace them urgently. It only applied to “aliens” ie people who were not British Citizens or Commonwealth citizens.
A person with an Aliens Registration Certificate had to report changes of address to the police, as well as changes of employer (for those with permission to work).
The requirement to register with the police was normally discontinued once someone acquired permanent residence (green card status in US terms), and certainly didn’t apply to someone who had acquired British Citizenship. So having an Aliens Registration card meant you definitely were not British (at that time anyway).
Police registration for foreign nationals is still in use today, though not quite as widely as in the 1920s.
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I found a document in which he holds British nationality
Is this a cafe I did not understand the written
Can be written in English
(https://e.top4top.net/p_688shrbm1.png)
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Unfortunately the latest image you posted is too difficult to read.
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Unfortunately the latest image you posted is too difficult to read.
Sorry
I will enlarge it again
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And please answer the questions asked earlier-
In order for us to help you find more information you need to read each post very carefully and answer the questions we are asking (if you don't know the answer it's okay to say so but please do not keep repeating the same thing instead).
So,
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
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Click to enlarge
(https://b.top4top.net/p_6888j7951.png)
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And please answer the questions asked earlier-
In order for us to help you find more information you need to read each post very carefully and answer the questions we are asking (if you don't know the answer it's okay to say so but please do not keep repeating the same thing instead).
So,
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
I have read about this topic
But I can not find the answer when I entered information about it in the museum
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I'm asking you questions that you, or your father, should at least have an idea about not anything you can find online. So, for the last time...
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
If you aren't willing to answer questions then I will leave it for others to help.
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aghadowey...
The questions you have asked are what will help if answered as others cannot help further either as the same questions apply all round ;)
Annie
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(spelling of middle name amended)
Post #1 has the name "Sharif Ahmed Alawi" on it.
I think that the OP (Gaming) needs a translator.
I am not a translator, so I am leaving this topic for othere, until one comes along.
Ray
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I'm asking you questions that you, or your father, should at least have an idea about not anything you can find online. So, for the last time...
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
If you aren't willing to answer questions then I will leave it for others to help.
My father asked me and said yes in the southern armor area South Shields
But he does not know the details
During my research I deduced this
But there are no more details
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom (https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom)
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Just found an online tree which might explain the confusion over Mary Williamson/Marshall. Her parents are shown to have married after her birth.
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I found a document in which he holds British nationality
Is this a cafe I did not understand the written
Can be written in English
(https://e.top4top.net/p_688shrbm1.png)
This document appears to be an Argentinian seaman’s book, apparently issued by the ship’s captain. No date is shown so I can’t comment on when it was issued but it appears to show that Chief Ahmed joined the vessel SS Twyford at Barry (which is in Wales). It does say that his nationality was British but that document was not issued by a competent British authority and so has no value in terms of proving he was a British citizen. (And you would have to wonder why, if he was a British citizen, he was traveling on an Argentinian document).
So I still see no convincing evidence that your ancestor was a British citizen.
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From the document on Reply #32
On the right side page...
One page to be used for each successive voyage
Name of Steamer...Twyford
Company...Watto Watto ? ? London
Nationality...British
Rating on Board...Donkeyman
Port where signed on...Barry
Engaged for ...Round Voyage
...Indefinitely
Length of Sea Service...7 Years
Member of Crew...Chief Ahmed
Annie
Edit...Had typed it all up i.e. leaving as is as I only got the red message when going to post
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From the document on Reply #32
Left side page...
Extract from Argentine Immigration Regulations
Annie
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I found a document in which he holds British nationality
Is this a cafe I did not understand the written
Can be written in English
(https://e.top4top.net/p_688shrbm1.png)
This document appears to be an Argentinian seaman’s book, apparently issued by the ship’s captain. No date is shown so I can’t comment on when it was issued but it appears to show that Chief Ahmed joined the vessel SS Twyford at Barry (which is in Wales). It does say that his nationality was British but that document was not issued by a competent British authority and so has no value in terms of proving he was a British citizen. (And you would have to wonder why, if he was a British citizen, he was traveling on an Argentinian document).
So I still see no convincing evidence that your ancestor was a British citizen.
There is a history and knowledge of this document
minutes
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Post #1 has the name "Sharif Amed Alawi" on it.
I didn't notice this post earlier but that makes things more confusing?
I don't know what to make of it ???
Annie
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From the document on Reply #32
On the right side page...
One page to be used for each successive voyage
Name of Steamer...Twyford
Company...Watto Watto ? ? London
Nationality...British
Rating on Board...Donkeyman
Port where signed on...Barry
Engaged for ...Round Voyage
...Indefinitely
Length of Sea Service...7 Years
Member of Crew...Chief Ahmed
Annie
Edit...Had typed it all up i.e. leaving as is as I only got the red message when going to post
Thank you for your great effort in translating
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I found a document in which he holds British nationality
Is this a cafe I did not understand the written
Can be written in English
(https://e.top4top.net/p_688shrbm1.png)
This document appears to be an Argentinian seaman’s book, apparently issued by the ship’s captain. No date is shown so I can’t comment on when it was issued but it appears to show that Chief Ahmed joined the vessel SS Twyford at Barry (which is in Wales). It does say that his nationality was British but that document was not issued by a competent British authority and so has no value in terms of proving he was a British citizen. (And you would have to wonder why, if he was a British citizen, he was traveling on an Argentinian document).
So I still see no convincing evidence that your ancestor was a British citizen.
Prefer this date and please translate it
Rosinish
(https://a.top4top.net/p_688700391.png)
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From Post #1
Just to highlight the name as best I could ;D
Annie
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Post #1 has the name "Sharif Amed Alawi" on it.
I didn't notice this post earlier but that makes things more confusing?
I don't know what to make of it ???
Annie
I apologize for not answering
Yes, he had a name like this
Possible information about this
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I was more perturbed that the first document in post 1 was dated 1934, 6 years after the OPs grandfather died.
The Argentinian record also gives whoever it is as single in 1927 and aged 24, so wrong marital status and too young to be born in 1898.
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It's possible that all the documents don't refer to the same person.
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and . . . . . the signature is "X".
What does this comment mean? . . . . .
"Is this a cafe I did not understand the written
Can be written in English"
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It's possible that all the documents don't refer to the same person.
the same person
But he took two parts of the name Ahmed Chief
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This is all making less and less sense. Yes, your grandfather could have been known by various names (or different versions of the same name) but not in 1934 if he died in 1928...
I was more perturbed that the first document in post 1 was dated 1934, 6 years after the OPs grandfather died.
The Argentinian record also gives whoever it is as single in 1927 and aged 24, so wrong marital status and too young to be born in 1898.
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From Post #1
Just to highlight the name as best I could ;D
Annie
This document is about Aden
I found it the most important in the search papers II
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Where were all those documents found?
Were they with belongings of your g/father or were some from the internet?
You need to do as asked...
I'm asking you questions that you, or your father, should at least have an idea about not anything you can find online. So, for the last time...
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
If Mary Jane was your g/mother, where was your father living if not with his mother & who with?
What years was he where with whom (locations) ???
You need to establish a definite link before you can proceed.
What is written on your father's birth cert. regarding parentage, where exactly was he born & when (Country)?
What info. do you have for your father's mother i.e. everything from his time of birth until he himself married & beyond ???
Annie
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This is all making less and less sense. Yes, your grandfather could have been known by various names (or different versions of the same name) but not in 1934 if he died in 1928...
I was more perturbed that the first document in post 1 was dated 1934, 6 years after the OPs grandfather died.
The Argentinian record also gives whoever it is as single in 1927 and aged 24, so wrong marital status and too young to be born in 1898.
I do not think this information belongs to him
Because it is not enough of this link
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom
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Where were all those documents found?
Were they with belongings of your g/father or were some from the internet?
You need to do as asked...
I'm asking you questions that you, or your father, should at least have an idea about not anything you can find online. So, for the last time...
1) was your father raised in South Shields area, in England or elsewhere?
2) was his mother Mary Jane Williamson?
3) did his father die in 1928?
If Mary Jane was your g/mother, where was your father living if not with his mother & who with?
What years was he where with whom (locations) ???
You need to establish a definite link before you can proceed.
What is written on your father's birth cert. regarding parentage, where exactly was he born & when (Country)?
What info. do you have for your father's mother i.e. everything from his time of birth until he himself married & beyond ???
Annie
My father asked me and said yes in the southern armor area South Shields
But he does not know the details
During my research I deduced this
But there are no more details
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom (https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom)
[/quote]
Information This link is wrong
I do not think he is the same person
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom
His death in Yemen 1988 and these documents and grandmother at home
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The link shows a WW1 medal to a Merchant Seaman and not Royal Navy.
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Can you piece together what you know is fact please?
Can you use e.g. when your father was born & where (no need for his name) & who his parents were & if/when/where they were married & his father's occupation?
What is written on that marriage of his parents...everything?
Annie
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You appear to be trying to find out if your grandfather was ever granted British Citizenship. None of the documents on this message board so far would suggest that he did. One document is a Canadian document, so unconnected with British nationality, and another is a UK Aliens Registration card which indicates that when it was issued in 1925, he definitely wasn’t a British Citizen.
The Home Office would normally have a record of someone acquiring British Citizenship. You could enquire from them whether he was ever granted it. (Normally you had to live in the UK for a certain number of years before you could apply. If he died in 1928, having only been in the country for 3 years it’s possible he hadn’t yet qualified. But I really don’t know).
If you are hoping to obtain British Citizenship yourself, based on your grandfather possibly having citizenship, my understanding is that in the UK it does not pass down 2 generations. But you would be best to take advice from a lawyer or advice body specializing in immigration law on that.
Brother
His death was 1988
He died in Yemen after leaving Britain
He went out after serving nearly 8 years in the sea
Property
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The link shows a WW1 medal to a Merchant Seaman and not Royal Navy.
I want your information about these documents
I do not know much about them
But I want to know these documents for submission to the embassy
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I want your information about these documents
I do not know much about them
But I want to know these documents for submission to the embassy
Submission to what embassy for what purpose? None of the documents you've posted are likely to be of any interest to any embassy if you are trying to claim citizenship or gain admittance to a foreign country.
Rather than running around in circles it would be best if you were to contact whatever embassy you refer to and ask what documents you actually do need for whatever your reason.
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Information This link is wrong
I do not think he is the same person
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom
His death in Yemen 1988 and these documents and grandmother at home
FORGET any links...it's info. YOU KNOW & your father knows which is needed & who died in Yemen in 1988?
Was it your g/father who died 1988 aged 90 yrs?
Annie
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Information This link is wrong
I do not think he is the same person
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom
His death in Yemen 1988 and these documents and grandmother at home
FORGET any links...it's info. YOU KNOW & your father knows which is needed & who died in Yemen in 1988?
Was it your g/father who died 1988 aged 90 yrs?
Annie
Yes, 90 years old
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Rather than running around in circles it would be best if you were to contact whatever embassy you refer to and ask what documents you actually do need for whatever your reason.
I would agree as there's nobody on here can answer that!!!
Annie
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If you want to see the medal details you must buy them from the National Archives but there is usually very basic information on the card.
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Was it your g/father who died 1988 aged 90 yrs?
Yes, 90 years old
Good, we have at last established 1 fact.
Can you now post the other facts please to the previous questions as we are all tired going round in circles hence ready to give up as we are getting nowhere with speculative info!
Annie
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Rather than running around in circles it would be best if you were to contact whatever embassy you refer to and ask what documents you actually do need for whatever your reason.
I would agree as there's nobody on here can answer that!!!
Annie
I do not want to go to the embassy but I want to know the information about these documents
Not important in my family's dynasty
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So the information in reply#3 regarding the death in South Shields in 1928 does not refer to your grandfather?
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Rather than running around in circles it would be best if you were to contact whatever embassy you refer to and ask what documents you actually do need for whatever your reason.
I would agree as there's nobody on here can answer that!!!
Annie
I do not want to go to the embassy but I want to know the information about these documents
Not important in my family's dynasty
There are people with potential
Like translation we want to look more
I will arrange it now
And you read about them
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I do not want to go to the embassy but I want to know the information about these documents
Not important in my family's dynasty
but earlier you wrote
I want your information about these documents
I do not know much about them
But I want to know these documents for submission to the embassy
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I do not want to go to the embassy but I want to know the information about these documents
Not important in my family's dynasty
but earlier you wrote
I want your information about these documents
I do not know much about them
But I want to know these documents for submission to the embassy
Amnesty i mean to be important to me
If you receive the appropriate answers you will rejoice
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It seems fairly clear that you are NOT merely trying to trace your family history but have other reasons. If you are trying to claim citizenship, residency or some sort of 'amnesty' you will need proper documents. Rootschat is a forum for helping people find their ancestors and not legal purposes.
I want to know my documents
Because it belongs to my family and grandmother in the box at home
I do not know whether it belongs to the law or the ancestors
I entered this place to benefit
And indeed I have lost much, but I have no desire, I have not understood it
Of these documents
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It seems fairly clear that you are NOT merely trying to trace your family history but have other reasons. If you are trying to claim citizenship, residency or some sort of 'amnesty' you will need proper documents. Rootschat is a forum for helping people find their ancestors and not legal purposes.
I have a desire to understand these documents
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A new link has been added in conjunction with this thread...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783170.msg6378654
To save duplication of effort.
Annie
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There is a possible marriage to a Mary J Williamson in 1925 in South Shields but name is Chief Ahmed.
Sadly followed by a death for Chief Ahmed in 1928 also in South Shields.
I think a Timeline is needed for all the names/dates/events on this thread?
Just a thought but..
Is it possible (looking at other info.), the person who died in 1928 was the g g/father ???
Annie
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The Chief Ahmed who died in 1928 South Shields was age 30- so born c1898.
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My understanding of this is
grandrather b 1898 Aden
arrived in Britain 1920s
Fireman aboard Merchant/Naval ships
Was in Britain 15 years
Went back to Aden? 1930s
Died in Aden 1988 aged 90
Father possibly born South Shields went back to Aden? when young can't recall much about life in Britain still living
Gaming found the documents in grandfathers/fathers house and would like to understand their meaning
So the Chief Ahmed who died in 1928 isn't the grandfather or father of Gaming
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Gaming found the documents in grandfathers/fathers house and would like to understand their meaning
The documents, in the order they appear in the first post, are:
1. Visitor’s Pass for Aden. That’s a document issued by the immigration authorities in Aden, allowing the holder to stay there as a visitor, for 2 months from 14th May 1934.
2. Certificate of Registration. That’s a document, issued by the British police, recording the fact that an Alien (ie someone who was not a British or Commonwealth citizen) had registered with them. At that period it was routine for most alien nationals staying in the UK for more than 3 months to be registered with the police. It was used to keep a track of where they were living and working and also if they had left the country. Date of entry to the UK was recorded as 6th April 1925. So it shows a) he was not a British citizen at that time, and b) that he resided in the UK for longer than just a short visit. Exactly how long is probably recorded within the document.
3. Postcard of the vessel Atlantis at the port of Dubrovnik.
4. Seaman’s Discharge Certificate. A document issued to merchant sailors to track their voyages and conduct on board. In this case issued by the Canadian authorities. It’s a document which can be used by a seaman, in place of a passport, when travelling as a member of a ship’s crew, and when joining or leaving a ship as crew.
5. A letter from Thomas Cook, travel agents. I cannot read the wording.
6. A letter from the Post Office, dated August 1928, confirming that a telephone line is to be installed at an address in South Shields.
Then in post 28, there is an Argentinian Seamen’s book. As with the Canadian document, it could be used as an identity document when travelling as ships crew.
So, in summary, these are documents generated as a result of life as a merchant sailor, in the UK, Canada, Aden and elsewhere.
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From the document on Reply #32
On the right side page...
One page to be used for each successive voyage
Name of Steamer...Twyford
Company...Watto Watto ? ? London
This is Watts, Watts & Co , a shipping company formed in Northumberland http://www.benjidog.co.uk/allen/Watt%20Watts%20and%20Co.html
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Gaming found the documents in grandfathers/fathers house and would like to understand their meaning
The documents, in the order they appear in the first post, are:
1. Visitor’s Pass for Aden. That’s a document issued by the immigration authorities in Aden, allowing the holder to stay there as a visitor, for 2 months from 14th May 1934.
2. Certificate of Registration. That’s a document, issued by the British police, recording the fact that an Alien (ie someone who was not a British or Commonwealth citizen) had registered with them. At that period it was routine for most alien nationals staying in the UK for more than 3 months to be registered with the police. It was used to keep a track of where they were living and working and also if they had left the country. Date of entry to the UK was recorded as 6th April 1925. So it shows a) he was not a British citizen at that time, and b) that he resided in the UK for longer than just a short visit. Exactly how long is probably recorded within the document.
3. Postcard of the vessel Atlantis at the port of Dubrovnik.
4. Seaman’s Discharge Certificate. A document issued to merchant sailors to track their voyages and conduct on board. In this case issued by the Canadian authorities. It’s a document which can be used by a seaman, in place of a passport, when travelling as a member of a ship’s crew, and when joining or leaving a ship as crew.
5. A letter from Thomas Cook, travel agents. I cannot read the wording.
6. A letter from the Post Office, dated August 1928, confirming that a telephone line is to be installed at an address in South Shields.
Then in post 28, there is an Argentinian Seamen’s book. As with the Canadian document, it could be used as an identity document when travelling as ships crew.
So, in summary, these are documents generated as a result of life as a merchant sailor, in the UK, Canada, Aden and elsewhere.
Thank
It was good information about the documents
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thank you brother
I looked but I only found this
more information
I searched for information but I could only find this
He was married to Mary Jane Williamson Marshall
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This is information about Mary
When Mary Jane Williamson Marshall was born in 1900 in South Shields, Durham, England, her father, William, was 23, and her mother, Elizabeth, was 21. She married chief ahmed on August 31, 1925, in her hometown. They had three children during their marriage. She died in 1992 in South Shields, Durham, England, at the age of 92.
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chief ahmed
1898–1928
BIRTH ABT 1898 • Yemen
DEATH 1928 • south shields
Chief ahmed was born in 1898 in Yemen, the son of Ahmed. He married Mary Jane Williamson Marshall on August 31, 1925, in South Shields, Durham, England. They had three children during their marriage. He died as a young father in 1928 in South Shields, Durham, England, at the age of 30.
I would like to know where this is all coming from, but some of it is incorrect. The Mary Jane Williamson(Marshall) above is not the Mary Jane Williamson who married Chief Ahmed in 1925. There is a family connection but this is a different Mary Jane Williamson. Chief Ahmed had two children with Mary Jane Williamson, a son and a daughter, the son died young and did not return to Aden to live. The daughter was my Aunt. Chief Ahmed died in 1928 aged 30. Chief Ahmed's father also lived in South Shields and died in South Shields. So I am trying to understand how this person is connected to Chief Ahmed. Having read through most of the posts, which are difficult to understand, I get the feeling that perhaps after Chief Ahmed died his documents and paperwork were used by someone else and perhaps his name also.
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Welcome to RootsChat, mopea.
I've just read through this complex thread and an associated one, which were posted 2 years ago. I'm new to the topic.
It seems to me that it was a case of confusion between 2 men with the same or similar names.
Gaming, the original poster, found some documents and wanted help with understanding what they are. English is not Gaming's first language. Therefore Gaming was researching in a foreign language.
RootsChat is collaborative. All contributors are volunteers. When replying to an enquiry, they search for information. All they have to go on is the content of the original post and what they can find from whatever sources they can access. They post information when they find it. This information may or may not be correct. Other posters may corroborate the information or may query it, or find other sources which conflict. The original poster may or may not be able to confirm or reject information, depending on their existing knowledge. Some early replies turn out to be "red herrings" in view of later findings. Ultimately it's up to the original poster to decide what to accept as relevant.
Replies to the enquiry were very rapid.
An enquiry may be easy to answer. Others are like this and meander down some byways. Some don't reach a conclusion. With luck, a descendant of some people mentioned will find the thread and provide concrete information, as you have done.
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Hello, yes I understand what you are saying, but how come this person has the obviously original documents of Chief Ahmed and is trying to say that he is some how a descendant.
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I can't answer that because I don't know sources of the documents.
As I understood it, "Gaming" is a grandchild of a man called Chief Ahmed. However, one document shows a different name.
Do you recognise either of the portraits?
As the discussion continued, the feeling seemed to be that there were 2 individuals.
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My understanding of this is
grandrather b 1898 Aden
arrived in Britain 1920s
Fireman aboard Merchant/Naval ships
Was in Britain 15 years
Went back to Aden? 1930s
Died in Aden 1988 aged 90
Father possibly born South Shields went back to Aden? when young can't recall much about life in Britain still living
Gaming found the documents in grandfathers/fathers house and would like to understand their meaning
So the Chief Ahmed who died in 1928 isn't the grandfather or father of Gaming
This seems to sum it up.
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A new link has been added in conjunction with this thread...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783170.msg6378654
To save duplication of effort.
The other thread appears to be about documents relating to the career as a merchant seaman.
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Moderator Dawnsh is aware that I was suspicious about this thread (+) when it "initially" arose.
I would suggest that no effort is spent until Dawn AND Sarah review?
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Information This link is wrong
I do not think he is the same person
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=chief_ahmed&count=50&location=3257.3250&name_x=_psx&priority=united-kingdom
His death in Yemen 1988 and these documents and grandmother at home
Gaming reached the same conclusion as Wendy.
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Thanks, Ray.
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From what I remember from 2 years ago, it was a case of mistaken identity caused by the Anglicization of names, the use of google translate or something similar and trying to match an online tree of another family to his. At the time of Gaming's relatives being in the north of England after 1901, there was a large Yemeni community, many of whom had the same or similar names and occupations.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/history-south-shields-yemeni-community-9678954
Gaming's grandfather was the person in the documents but not the person who married and died in England in the 1920's. None of the other family events known to Gaming were found in records in England & Wales.
For Gaming to have progressed his family tree, he needed to consult with records held outside of England & Wales
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I can't answer that because I don't know sources of the documents.
As I understood it, "Gaming" is a grandchild of a man called Chief Ahmed. However, one document shows a different name.
Do you recognise either of the portraits?
As the discussion continued, the feeling seemed to be that there were 2 individuals.
Hello, I realize that this discussion is two years old and not ongoing by the original poster. I was pleased to see the two photos, as in my research I didn't have any photos. My family and I definitely believe that the first (black and white photo) is the correct one of Chief Ahmed because of the resemblance to my Aunt. The sepia photo may well be Gaming's family. But after having studied the documents that he put up, the blue Canadian discharge book, 6694, it describes the features of the seaman and you will note it says "scar on forehead". So if you look at the black and white photo posted it clearly shows a scar on forehead, and the sepia photo does not. This leads me to believe that some of the paperwork belongs to "our" Chief Ahmed, and may have been appropriated after his death in 1928.
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Hi
I previously spent a lot of time on this, as did a number of others.
? Who is
"x Ahmed" ( b22/7/1904 who was living with Mary J Ahmed (+2 others, Liverpool) ?
(AB) Seaman - last voyage 5/8/39 "Gemstone" No 35045)
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As they are all deceased, if you have them, please post what detail is on the marriage certificate and on the birth certificate of the deceased child.
Please also post the detail of Mary J's death registration?
Thanks
Ray
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Hi
I previously spent a lot of time on this, as did a number of others.
? Who is
"x Ahmed" ( b22/7/1904 who was living with Mary J Ahmed (+2 others, Liverpool) ?
(AB) Seaman - last voyage 5/8/39 "Gemstone" No 35045)
Sorry don't understand the question here.
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My family and I definitely believe that the first (black and white photo) is the correct one of Chief Ahmed because of the resemblance to my Aunt. The sepia photo may well be Gaming's family. But after having studied the documents that he put up, the blue Canadian discharge book, 6694, it describes the features of the seaman and you will note it says "scar on forehead". So if you look at the black and white photo posted it clearly shows a scar on forehead, and the sepia photo does not. This leads me to believe that some of the paperwork belongs to "our" Chief Ahmed, and may have been appropriated after his death in 1928.
The sepia photo seems to be from Certificate of Registration which has date April 1925. See Reply # 78 by Elwyn on this thread. We don't know when the photograph was taken - whether it was a brand new picture or one he already had. It seems to be of a very young man.
The seaman's documents on the other thread were issued in 1926. He had 8 months to acquire a scar. I imagine that injuries to seamen were not uncommon. Onshore, there was a report of him having a fight (1931), so he may have got a scar in a previous fight. The seaman's logbook page began January 1926 and went on for a few years.
The mark between his eyes on the other man's photo may be a furrow rather than a scar.
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Hi Mopea
I will re-phrase
?Do you know anything about
"Amid Ahmed" who was living with Mary J Ahmed (+2 others, Liverpool)
(AB) Seaman - voyage 5/8/39 "Gemstone" No 35045)
Ray
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Hi
I previously spent a lot of time on this, as did a number of others.
? Who is
"x Ahmed" ( b22/7/1904 who was living with Mary J Ahmed (+2 others, Liverpool) ?
(AB) Seaman - last voyage 5/8/39 "Gemstone" No 35045)
Sorry don't understand the question here.
Neither do I.
Ray, were your last 3 posts quotes? If so, from where?
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Hi
Replies #94 & #97 have been amended
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Hi Mopea
I will re-phrase
?Do you know anything about
"Amid Ahmed" who was living with Mary J Ahmed (+2 others, Liverpool)
(AB) Seaman - voyage 5/8/39 "Gemstone" No 35045)
Ray
No, I don't know anything about the above, must be completely different people. The Mary J Williamson/Ahmed I am researching was born in 1906 and lived in South Shields.
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As they are all deceased, if you have them, please post what detail is on the marriage certificate and on the birth certificate of the deceased child.
Please also post the detail of Mary J's death registration?
Thanks
Ray
Are you researching this family also? What detail do you want from the Marriage Cert, which I have? Chief Ahmed and Mary Jane Williamson were married in August 1925.
They had two children, together, and I know nothing about a deceased child, although one of the two died in his twenties. I don't have Mary J's death registration but I believe it was 1992.