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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Witters of Halsall on Monday 20 November 17 23:16 GMT (UK)
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My name is Dennis and I live in Australia. A few years ago I came into possession of documents and photos pertaining to Richard Cheetham Witter (1870), his wife Jessie Wallace (1871) , their daughter Helen Cheetham Burton (1894, nee Witter) and her son Herbert Eric Burton (1919). Richard was the brother of James William Cheetham Witter (1880), Titanic crewman and survivor. Since then I have traced family tree to Halsall and Eccleston, Lancashire. I have conflicting dates for parents of ancestor John Witter (1789 or 1770), his father James (1745) for whom I can find no marriage. Are you able to help resolve thee two questions?
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Hello and welcome.
Was that Eccleston near Chorley or Eccleston near St. Helens? There are also small settlements called Eccleston in the north of Lancashire. (Eccleston means a settlement with a church.)
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Maybe....
James Whitter. baptised 28 JUL 1745, Eccleston by Chorley.
James Whitter m Agnes Hesketh. (b1747), 30 JUL 1767 Ormskirk,Lancashire.
Eleven children including John baptised 22 MAR 1789, Halsall, Lancashire.
Source FamilySearch.
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Maybe....
James Whitter. baptised 28 JUL 1745, Eccleston by Chorley.
James Whitter m Agnes Hesketh. (b1747), 30 JUL 1767 Ormskirk,Lancashire.
Eleven children including John baptised 22 MAR 1789, Halsall, Lancashire.
Source FamilySearch.
St Pauls ,Ormskirk
Baptism: 11 Jun 1747 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Agnes Hesketh - Daughter of Hugh Hesketh & Alice
Abode: Scarisbrick
Register: Baptisms 1743 - 1770, Page 14, Entry 32
Source: LDS Film 1849663
possible parents - the good thing is the abode - Scarsbrick - only a little village but has its own website - you might find this interesting
http://www.scarisbrick.org.uk/
enjoy
ADDED
7 miles from Scarsbrick is a village named Aughton with a very old church - presumably built before St Pauls in Ormskirk
this is a Hesketh record over 100 years before the start of the English Civil War 1642 - so is an old record
Marriage: 9 Jul 1541 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Gabriel Hesketh, gen. -
Jane Halsall -
Register: Marriages 1541 - 1753, Page 1, Entry 3
Source: LDS Film 1657556
don't be surprised if they are not somehow related if Solidrock find is correct ( which I believe is a very good chance of being correct )
but how ironic if it is - Janes name is HALSALL ....bit of fate mate :)
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With regard to the post by garstonite and the Aughton connectionI think that maybe right. Following back from Hugh Hesketh 1684 Croston,Lancashire.
Thomas Hesketh 1649 Croston,Lancashire.
Hugh Hesketh 1616 Croston,Lancashire.
William Hesketh b c1589 North Meols, Lancashire, baptised 1595 Ormskirk, Lancashire.
Richard Hesketh 1566 Aughton, Lancashire.
There seems to be quite a few Gabriel Hesketh's in Aughton so the connection maybe there.
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Thank you so much for your assistance folks. I had identified Agnes Hesketh as a potential spouse but could find no supporting evidence. Are you able to list the children and birth years or point me to a link?
A Geni.com record for John Witter (1789) show his father “James Witter 1745” and mother as “Margaret”. It also showed he had a sister Aggy and that he married Margaret Hartley in 1809. The latter, "married Margaret Hartley in 1809" is definitely correct but Margaret threw me off track.
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Children of James Whitter and Agnes Hesketh .
James Whitter. baptised 11 OCT 1767. Ormskirk,Lancashire.
Mary Whitter. baptised 27 Aug 1769. Ormskirk,Lancashire.
Joseph Witter. 1772.
Hugh Witter. baptised 29 May 1774. Halsall, Lancashire.
Alice Witter. 1776.
Ellen Whitter. baptised 07 MAR 1779. Wigan,Lancashire.
Ann Witter. b 1781. Halsall, Lancashire.
Agnes Witter. b 11 August 1786. Halsall, Lancashire.
John Witter. baptised 22 MAR 1789. Halsall, Lancashire.
These are all from FamilySearch tree LZXZ-XZW so treat with caution.
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Bingo! Thank you very much for your assistance. I have traced this family tree and much of the extended family. The key players are:
• Thomas Witter (1720) married Mary Halliwell (Dec, 1724) 1st August, 1743 at Eccleston.
• Their son, James Witter (28th July, 1745, Eccleston) – Agnes Hesketh THANK YOU!
• Their son, John Witter (22nd March, 1789) married Margaret Hartley (1785. Altham) 11th December, 1809 at Melling by Maghull.
• Their son, James Witter (14th January, 1815) married Elizabeth Cheetham at St. Andrews, Maghull on 15th June, 1840.
• Their son, James Witter (1840) married Ann (1841)
• Their sons Richard (1870) and James (1880) are the subject of later chapters in a book I am writing about Richard's grandson.
The Ann (1841) I thought was Ann Dutton but seems not to be. That's my next challenge. Thanks again. Dennis
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Why do you think it's not Ann Dutton? Marriage Q June 1867.
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I'll get back to you tomorrow on that. Can't remember. Friday afternoon here so out for dinner. Had Dutton in my records but moved due to lack of evidence of matching dates. By the way, my research began because My wife was handed a shoebox by someone who had it for over 30 years. It included documents and photos. James William Cheetham Witter was a Titanic crew member and survivor. His story is well documented. His older brother Richard (1870) married Jessie Wallace. Their daughter Helen married a NZ man serving with Australian Imperial Forces in Uk and France. Surname was Burton. She had a son. This family, including parents came to Australia in 1920. Burton deserted Helen and her child Herbert Eric Burton soon after his return to Australia. Herbert served in Australian Army as a gunner in Noumea then trained in RAAF as a navigator. He was on a Lancaster bomber returning from bombing Raid over Germany but it crashed on landing. His mother died in 1980's, the last member of the family in Australia. His brother was also a smoke room steward on White Star Line ships. I have his seamanship booklet from1911/2 and much more. So, I am currently writing a book on the Witter's of Halsall, both for the family and so an Australian war hero can a be remembered.
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In the GRO...
James Witter, 1879 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 813 mmn Dutton.
Can't find a birth for Richard (1870).
There's a marriage that maybe him...
Richard Chestham Witter m Jessie Wallack. 1891 West Derby, Lancashire.
They are in the 1901 census living at Helsby Road, Walton On The Hill. Richard is a ships steward.
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I guess my reasoning was that James and wife had a daughter 1864 and if Ann Dutton (1841) married James Witter (1840) I thought social pressure would have them married before or around the birth, not Q2, 1867. Certainly his wife was Ann.
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I guess my reasoning was that James and wife had a daughter 1864 and if Ann Dutton (1841) married James Witter (1840) I thought social pressure would have them married before or around the birth, not Q2, 1867. Certainly his wife was Ann.
Victorians were not as strait-laced as they were made out to be, not even Queen Vic herself. One of my ancestors produced 4 illegitimate children during the 1860s.
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It wasn't uncommon for people with money to tell their children to have a child out of wedlock so they could see if that child was Healthy before they married - didn't want to leave any money to any grandchildren that might not be able to lead a healthy life style - snobbery at its highest degree.
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Thanks for your assistance to date. Most things are starting to fall into place although the lack of records from 1700's has me struggling to fill in an important gap. I am stuck on two Thomas Witters.
1. Thomas born c. 1720 (bapt. Eccleston / Ormskirk area) who married Mary Halliwell (1724). I have not been able to locate Thomas’ birth details or parents, except that his father was also Thomas and a stone mason.
2. Thomas Witter of North Moor Lane, Halsall may be Thomas, baptised in Hallsall, 1803, the son of Alice Witter OR Thomas, born in 1806, was the son of James Witter (1767) and Jane, descendant of Thomas(c. 1720), OR perhaps neither. This Thomas' wife was Elizabeth. I would like to be able to link this Thomas to the family by finding out exactly who his parents are.
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Solidrock. I just noticed that I had not responded to your post concerning Richard Cheetham Witter, etc. Richard was a Smoke Room Steward on White Star Line ships, as was his younger brother James William Cheetham Witter, who was a surviving crew member on Titanic. I have traced direct family back to 1720 (see earlier post). By and large I have resolved most of the family history including associated families. Richard came to Australia in about 1920 wife his wife (Jessie Wallace), sister in law (Helen Knox Wallace), daughter Helen Burton and her son Herbert Eric Burton (1819). Herbert's father Albert Eric Burton, a NZ born Australian, who served in England and France with Australian Imperial Force, and married Helen Witter in 1916, deserted them upon repatriation from England.
I still have a few unsolved family linkages but am slowly working through them. Thanks and regards.
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Hey there, i just found your post through some internet research. You said that you still have some unsolved family linkages and maybe i can help you with one.
(I first wanted to write you a private message, but i wasn't able to find out how, so i'm just posting it here).
I don't know how much you found out about Joseph Witter (born 1772, son of James Witter and Agnes Hesketh), but he seems to be my 6th great grandfather or so and i may have some informations you haven't got.
I'm not 100% sure if everything is correct, some things were a bit tough to find out, some conclusions and so on. But i spend many hours in my research, so theres a good chance that its not completly bollocks :D
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Readers, I again seek your assistance. John Witter (1789) married Margaret Hartley in 1809 at Melling by Maghull. Another researcher and myself are not able to find any details of Margaret Hartley. As a complication, it is possible that John married a Margaret Heatley. If anyone has access to genealogical records allowing me to determine the parents of Margaret Hartley of the Melling area, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Margaret Hartley -bapt 10 May 1777 at Melling St Thomas-daughter of "Wm"....William.
William Hartley married Elizabeth Bradley at Melling by Maghull -both otp of Melling St Thomas on 1 Feb 1768.
Elizabeth Bradley bapt 10 Feb 1750., Melling by Maghull-daughter of Richard.
I'll see if I can trace William's baptism, and Richard's marriage...but do not know that area at all for nearby parishes!
djm297
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How about
St Thomas Melling
Baptism
William Hateley son of Henry a husbandman
4 April 1743
Abode Melling
Found on www.lan-opc.org.uk
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Folks
I need your assistance with a dilemma.
Jane Witter, daughter of James Witter and Mary, was baptised at Halsall on 7th August, 1831. James, Jane’s father, was recorded as a “bricksetter”. Census and baptism records for children of James and Mary Witter of Burscough Street, Ormskirk do not establish the identity or existence of another James and Mary Witter couple in the area.
James and Mary of Burscough Street, Ormskirk had a daughter, Jane Witter, who was born 13th July, 1822 and baptised 28th July, 1822 at St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk. Jane, who remained single, was buried on 13th April, 1898 at St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk at the age of 75 (1822/3). Call census entries for Jane were consistent with regard to this birth year. Jane’s brother, Thomas, was born in 1830 and baptised at St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk on 2nd January, 1831. If Thomas was born mid to late 1830, there would have been enough time for a child born then baptised August, 1831. Some questions arise:
• Why would James and Mary name a second child Jane, when Jane (1822) was still alive?
• Why would the child be baptised in Halsall while all their other children were baptised in Ormskirk?
• Where is the census evidence of Jane from 1831?
• This means John and Mary of Ormskirk were not this Janes Parents, so who were the James and Mary Witter of Halsall?