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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: KiwiHugh on Thursday 23 November 17 22:45 GMT (UK)
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Family Search keeps on telling me its having Technical Problems. SO please,
Looking for birth place of the parents Thomas Edward Abraham c1825 and Ellen nee Bethell c1827
From GRO births in Ormskirk Charles Arthur 1848, Richard Slingsby 1851, Edward Robert, Louisa 1855, then in Maidenhall Walter 1860, Lionel Augustus 1863 and Augusta Caroline 1867 at Thingoe.
Have yet to look for deaths of the children so would also like to know who are missing/ are there.
Now have managed to see their marriage (circa birth dates) and Lionels marriage and Richard comes out to NZ so those two made it to adulthood at a minimum.
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The 1871 census shows Thomas E Abraham (50, Rector of Risby, landowner and magistrate) born in Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire. His wife Ellen, 44, is shown with a birthplace of Camden Town, London.
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1851 census shows similar:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGLS-CRM
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Offspring present in 1871
Thomas Palmer Abraham [born 27 Mar 1847 & bapt 16 May 1847, Bickerstaffe Lancs]
Charles Arthur Abraham
Richard Slingsby Abraham
Ellen H? W Abraham [Ellen Florence Westbury Abraham; birth reg as Ellen Abraham Dec 1861 Mildenhall]
Lionel A Abraham
Augusta C Abraham
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1851 census shows similar:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGLS-CRM
The Luisa Mary Soot? Sister 39 was a Widow who did she marry.
Keyboard86
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Manawatu Times 13 Jan 1918 p4
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MT19180119.2.11?query=Rector%20of%20Risby
death Arthur T ABRAHAM
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Died 22/10/1917
From Commonwealth War Graves Commission he Arthur Thomas ABRAHAM is son of Mrs MALON, formerly ABRAHAM, and the late Rev T P ABRAHAM, Rector of Risby..........wife is Ruth A of Pound Hall, Long Melford, Suffolk
FreeBDM marr. MarQ 1905 Brentford 3a 131
ABRAHAM Helen m. MALON Jules Ernest
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Got to go 1861 looks to be RG09/1142/27/8
Keyboard86
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Thanks everyone.
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Marriage is on Anc 9 May 1846
Marriage Place: St Michael, Highgate, Camden, England
Thomas's Father THOMAS, Occp Captain
Ellen, RICHARD, Queens Council
Richard/Emma/Slingsby and Eliza Jane Bethell witnessed the Marriage + ? Abraham
Thomas was a Clerk, Residence Parish ?, Ormskirk, Lancs
Ellen was living in Highgate
1841 Census
Chapel House, Ash, Surrey
Thos Abraham, 65, Army
Ann Tukner, 70, Servant
Hannah Sterling, 45, Servant
Jane Chandler, 18, Servant
Jno Young, 16, Servant
Ellen Bethell, 14, Visitor
Eliza Bethell, 13, Visitor
Thomas A/Ellen and Eliza B , not born in County
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Thanks Trish1120 LOL Visit the Father. Marry the son.
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Is that Richard Slingsby and Emma Slingsby as two of three witnesses? The root of this search was to work out where that Slingsby name entered the cuzzies family.
OK have been digging and see they are three siblings , making 5 witnesses.
Richard Bethell was aka Lord Westbury
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Yes they are all Bethells, Richard/Emma/Slingsby/Eliza Jane.
The name Slingsby seems to go back a long way;
Burial;
Slingsby Bethell
birth: 1617
death: February 1697
Covent Garden, London Borough of Camden, Greater London
(Familysearch.Org)
+ 2 christened Kirby Overflow, Yorkshire
7 May 1657, Father WILLIAM
16 March 1696, Parents WILLIAM/ELIZABETH
(Familysearch.Org)
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They seem to have liked living in Camden. Thank you.
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From looking around it seems a Walter Bethel married Mary (Maria) Slingsby;
Wiki page;
HENRY Bethell (c 1606 - 1668) was an English politician who sat in the House of Commons in 1660.
Bethell was the son of Sir Walter Bethell (died 1622) of Alne and his wife Mary Slingsby, daughter of Sir Henry Slingsby of Scriven, Knaresborough. His mother was a puritan and attended a conventicle at York. In 1645, he was commissioner of the northern association for the West Riding of Yorkshire. He was J.P. for the North Riding from 1649 to 1653 and from 1656 to 1659. He was commissioner for militia for Yorkshire in March 1660. He signed the Yorkshire declaration for a free Parliament and in April 1660, he was elected Member of Parliament for Knaresborough in the Convention Parliament. He was JP again from July 1660 until his death and commissioner for assessment for the North Riding from August 1660 to 1661. He was commissioner for assessmentfor North Riding from 1664 until his death and a captain of foot militia for North Riding from about 1665 until his death.[1]
Bethell was unmarried and died at the age of about 61 and was buried at Alne on 27 February 1668. He was the brother of Slingsby Bethell.[1]
On The Peerage site, Mary Slingby is down as Maria
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Got to go 1861 looks to be RG09/1142/27/8
Keyboard86
This is Thomas, Ellen with her mother Ellen M and huge household!
RG09/11/118/19
Keyboard86
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If you just search for Walter Bethell + Mary Slingsby a lot comes up eg;
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/9jBkj8lyeio
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Wow what a household :o
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Morning folks. Feeling a little bleary after 5 hours sleep. Wow I am going to have fun getting from Richard Bethell who married June Baverstock Abraham. Time for a coffee. Thank you all.
But I now know where that Slingsby name came from ;D
Not looking good. Peerage runs out at Thomas B of Bradford on Avon deceased 1755.
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;D Problem sorted. Introducing "Several Generations Bethell" ::) :o
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If you go to Familysearch.Org and enter;
Walter Bethel birth Yorkshire.
At the bottom of the page is a submitted Tree.
Looks well researched to me :)
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Thanks. It confirms my head count of six sons for Sir Walter. I think I may be stuck with my " No 8 Wire" solution to linking him to Lord Westbury's Grandfather who died in 1755. When I say cuzzies, they are 4th cuzzies, and seem reluctant over contact. The Cook Strait was a huge devider of families pre the internet.
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I am quite baffled as I have the wife of Thomas P Abraham being Helen (Nee Anderson) who married in June 1883 at Kensington when she was 19 and he was 35. Having three children Arthur who was killed and awarded the MC. Violet and Edward Weir Abraham. The Reverend died in 1897 at Thingo aged 50 and Helen married again in March 1905 to a Frenchman called Jules Malon, they had two children Pierre and Yvonne. They all emigrated to Vargas in British Columbia from whence Arthur and Edward went to war, Arthur not returning. Edward returned with a War Bride Dorothy Evelyn Abraham (Nee Allard) who is my great aunt. Edward died aged 94 in Victoria BC after a very adventuress life.!
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Hi gralorn.
Yes you are right Edwards Mother was nee Anderson;
ABRAHAM, EDWARD WEIR , Mothers mn ANDERSON
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in THINGOE Volume 04A Page 686
It was his Father Thomas's Parents Marriage that was 1846 that I posted earlier.
Helen in 1881 with her Widowed Mother;
Norfolk House,
Hastings, Sussex
Margaret Anderson, 56, Head, Widow, born Jamaica
Mary A. Anderson, 27
HELEN Anderson, 17, Daug, born Childwall, Lancashire***
Jane H. Anderson, 16
Harold H. Anderson, 14
Arthur G. Anderson, 10
May Hacking, 24
Eden Banks, 28
Harriett Bennett, 25
Elizabeth Bennett, 19
Thomas P Abraham and Helen Anderson also had 2 Daughters;
ABRAHAM, VIOLET HELEN, Mothers mn ANDERSON
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in THINGOE Volume 04A Page 701
ABRAHAM, EILEEN MARGARET WESTBURY, Mothers mn ANDERSON
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in THINGOE Volume 04A Page 790
They are with their Mother Helen in Suffolk in 1901 Census visiting Mary L Ledward.
Trish :)
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Brilliant, thanks for that Trish, very much appreciated. Especially the second daughter Eileen. Had nothing on her at all so a name to add on. Thanks again.
Graham :P
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Your welcome :)
Death Reg;
NAME: Eileen M W Munson
BIRTH: abt 1895
DEATH: Sep 1957 - Isle of Wight, Isle of Wight, England
Probate has her as the Wife of reverend Arthur George Edward Munson
Address; Ivy Lodge, Freshwater Bay, Isle of Wight
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Trish,
Do you know if Eileen went out to Canada with her mother in 1912 and then returned to settle in England? Not essential, but would close a circle if you get my drift.
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Trish,
Do you know if Eileen went out to Canada with her mother in 1912 and then returned to settle in England? Not essential, but would close a circle if you get my drift.
From what I can locate a Miss E M Abraham aged 16 and ( what I believe) is a Miss V H Abraham 26 departed Liverpool for Montreal on Vessel Tunisian 14th June 1912
Keyboard86
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A number of records for the above are easily found on familysearch.
Eileen Margaret Westbury Abraham married Francis Robert Burdett Garrard in Kingston, Ontario 25 Sept 1917. Image shows he was a soldier - death for him in Nelson, BC 25 Oct. 1919.
She returned to the UK as Eileen Garrard in 1921 but must have gone back to Canada as there is her second marriage to Arthur George Edward Munson 29 June 1929 in Alberni BC (very detailed marriage cert. - her mother was one of the witnesses).
William
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Some BC Canada records can also be found at this website....
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Genealogy
PB
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Also a departure Manchester to Vancouver British Columbia 5th Sept 1928 a Mrs H Malon 64 and a Mrs E M W Garrard 32 address in UK c/o Miss E Clarke Anderson Ivy Lodge, Freshwater Bay, Isle of Wight on Pacific Shipper.
Keyboard86
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Just so informative to say the least indebted to you all for the information. They that is the Munson must have returned to UK, he was the Revrand and she died on the Isle of Wight Sept 1957.
Thank you all very much.
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Thank you all for helping while I have been off line :)
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Trish,
Are you able to tell me what happened to Helen Malon's husband Jules Earnest Malon whom she married on the 11 March 1905 in Brentford, Essex. They had the two children Yvonne and Pierre who I know went to Canada with her just before WW1 to join her sons from her previous marriage to the Rev TP Abraham. Would perhaps the Malon's have also been on the Tunisia going to Montreal on the 14th June 1912 as well as her daughters Ellen and Violet Abraham?
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Hi a Mrs H Malon Wife aged 47, Miss Malon 5 and Master Malon 4 were also on the Tunisian 14th June 1912
The arrival in Canada 23rd June 1912 suggests Helen was a Widow?
Keyboard86
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Hi it was only the arrival in Canada that confirmed the departure of an Yvonne Malon 20 b France in the S.O.S.B.W. Party and a Pierre Ernest Malon 19 b France in the C.N.R. Party departed Liverpool for Quebec 23rd April 1927 on Vessel Regina both give same address in UK 6, Westfields, Bromyard, Worcestershire.
Arrival 7th May 1927
Keyboard86
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That is brilliant thank you very much. The absence of Jules Earnest Malon leads me to think that sadly he has died prior to their voyages to Canada. I must try to confirm that somehow.
Thanks again
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Going on 1911, possibly Jersey if correct?
Keyboard86
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Sorry cant find anything on line for death of Jules Malon which must have been somewhere between 1911 Census and 1921.
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Thanks all the same Trish. Appreciated