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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Greggles on Friday 24 November 17 21:12 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me what this word means please - Rößleinswith
It describes the occupation of a Johann Jakob Haag on a birth document in 1818. I believe this ß means s repeated and RoBlein could be the name of a pub/inn/restaurant in Niederstetten, Wurttemberg. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Greggles.
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Hi,
I do remember when travelling in southern Germany, a couple of inns with the name rote rößlein and gueldener rößlein- the red horse and golden horse.
It's a long time since I did German A level, but I cannot think of many words ending "-with". Are you certain of the spelling? An innkeeper is usually a Gastwirt, could it be this?
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Hi Carom, Thank you for that information. No the word is definitely as given previously. It is shown twice on the parish register. So I can assume that the inn or pub was called "The Red Horse Inn" or "The Golden Horse Inn" or something similar. The word "gastwirt" does not appear anywhere on the document. Thanks again.
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Hi
i totally agree with carom. It is to 99% Rößleinwirt. Earlier spelling with, th Rößleinwirth.
Johann Jakob Haag, Rösleinwirth and Stadtbauer (Town famer)
Here 2 excerpts from the county archive B Würtemberg
Ni 5 Bü 227
Criminalia, Urfehden und Sonstige Centagelegenheiten, vorwiegend in der Herrschaft Haltenbergstetten.
Enthält u.a.: 1. Verhör der wegen Diebstahl verhafteten Margarete Scholl, 1631;
2. Auslieferung der Maria Katharina Rost zu Haltenbergstetten an das Amt Lauda, 1690;
3. Diebstahl von 30 Schafen aus der herrschaftlichen Schäferei Rehhof, 1696;
4. Verhör hatzfeldtischer Untertanen in Angelegenheiten eines zu Weikersheim inhaftierten Diebs, 1699;
5. Untersuchung der Diebstähle des Paul Ott zu Haltenbergstetten, 1699;
6. Differenzen zwischen der Kanzlei Haltenbergstetten und Rothenburg o.d.T. wegen der Zurückgabe eines gestohlenen Ochsen durch den Rößleinwirt zu Haltenbergstetten, 1703.
A matter of differences between the chancellery Haltenbergstetten and Rothenburg ob der Tauber over the return of a stolen Ox from the Rößleinwirt in Haltenbergstetten
Ni 5 Bü 233
Criminalia, Urfehden und Sonstige Centagelegenheiten, vorwiegend in der Herrschaft Haltenbergstetten.
Enthält u.a.: 1. Centschöffeneid, 1682;
2. Steckbriefe über den flüchtigen Kutscher Hans Metzger, 1682;
3. Bestrafung der Magdalena Lähmer zu Vorbachzimmern und des Peter Pflüger wegen Blutschande, 1716;
4. Untersuchung gegen en Rößleinwirt Johann Michael Schumm zu Niederstetten wegen Beherbergung von Dieben, (1715) 1716-1717;
5. Untersuchung gegen den Knecht Johann Michael Unfug zu Rinderfeld wegen Diebstahl, 1718;
6. Tödlicher Sturz des Michael Herbst zu Vorbachzimmern, 1721;
7. Beraubung des Georg Jakob Schimpf zu Riedbach, 1721;
8. Verhaftung eines fremden Juden wegen Diebstahl zu Niederstetten, 1721.
Investigation against the Rößleinwirt Johann Michael Schumm from Niederbergstetten regarding harboring thieves.
Dave
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Dave, Thanks for your explanations. My German is almost non-existent so it is very difficult to translate some of these early genealogy documents. You help is very much appreciated.
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I can't help thinking of a poem by Goethe that starts
Sah ein Knab' ein Röslein stehn, Röslein auf der Heiden.
The German equivalent of Molesworth (remember him?) rendered the Röslein as Rößlein,
turning a little rose into a little horse on the heath. You don't think we could have confusion here?
Which is more likely as the name of an inn?
Wirth as old-fashioned spelling of Wirt = landlord is certain.
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Wee Hugh, Thanks for your interesting suggestion. Another interpretation given was "landlord of an inn" so perhaps "landlord of little horse inn" in English. Given that the document in question is dated 1818, no doubt there was a different manner of speaking then.
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I'll confess to being a little confused here. Do we think Johann was an innkeeper or a farmer who also kept horses?
(As an aside I am a Molesworth fan, my father, a boarder at a strange prep school during WW2, read me the stories when I was a child.)
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Carom, I am not sure what others think but from what information I have, I believe Jacob Haag was the landlord of an inn in Niederstetten prior to 1818. I am happy to be corrected though. Thanks.
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It is some time since I looked at these posts and I have not yet been able to finalise it all. Could any of you kind people translate these birth details of my Gt-grandfather Johann Christoph Schaffert (Spurius) please? I note that he was illegitimate, his mother, Christina Margaretha Haag (although some have interpreted it as Grags) was blind and his father was Johann Georg Schaffert. Her father, Johan Jakob Haag was the subject of earlier posts here. Many thanks.
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It is some time since I looked at these posts and I have not yet been able to finalise it all. Could any of you kind people translate these birth details of my Gt-grandfather Johann Christoph Schaffert (Spurius) please? I note that he was illegitimate, his mother, Christina Margaretha Haag (although some have interpreted it as Grags) was blind and his father was Johann Georg Schaffert. Her father, Johan Jakob Haag was the subject of earlier posts here. Many thanks.
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1st Column - Taufname des Kindes
Johann Christoph
Spurius - Latein uneheliche
2nd Column - Eltern
Der angeb(ene): Vater heißt: Johann Georg Schaf
fert, des Johann Leonhard Schlaffert, Schwein
Schneiders1 in Schrozberg eheliche Sohn.
Die Mutter ist Christina Margaretha, des
Weiland; Johann Jacob Haags, Rößleinwirths
und rückgelassene2 ehel: ledige und blinde Tochter
3rd Column – Ort der Geburt
Niederstetten
4th Column – Zeit der Geburt
28 Dez.
Früh, 5 Uhr
1818
5th Column – Ort und Tag der Taufe
30 Dezember
Dahier
6th Column – Wer die Tauf-Handlung verrichtete
Stadt Pfarrer
Graaz, dahier
7th Column – Taufzeugen
1 – Johann Christoph Haag der weil(and):
Johann Jacob Haags, Rößleins
wirth rückgelassene ehel(iche):
lediger Sohn
2 – Johann Leonhard, Weber, in Berlin
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1st Column – Baptism childs name
Johann Christoph
Spurius - Latin illigitimate
2nd Column - Parents
The proclaimed father is Johann Georg Schaffert,
legitimate son of Johann Leonhard Schlaffert, Schwein
Schneider1 in Schrozberg
The mother is Christina Margaretha, surviving daughter of the deceased (Weiland)
Johann Jacob Haags, Rößleinwirths
legitimate, single and blind
3rd Column – place of birth
Niederstetten
4th Column – time of birth
28 Dez.
Früh (early), 5 Uhr
1818
5th Column – place and time of Baptism
30 Dezember
Dahier = here
6th Column – Name of the person who performed the ceremony
Stadt Pfarrer = Town clergyman or priest
Graaz, dahier = Graaz from here
7th Column – witnesses
1 – Johann Christoph Haag, surviving son of the deceased
Johann Jacob Haags, Rößleinswirth.
Legitimate, single
2 – Johann Leonhard, weaver in Berlin
1 Schweinschneider or Sauschneider
Some kind of vetinary who castrated animals
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauschneider
2 rückgelassene = left behind or in this context survived or outlived
Regards
Dave
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Dave, Thank you ever so much, this is so much appreciated. I could translate bits and pieces but never the complete record.