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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Duck on Sunday 26 November 17 10:40 GMT (UK)
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Has anyone come across this before? I have a pair of double cousins who marry each other, a brother & sister of one family marry a brother & sister from another, then a child from each pair marry. It did 'arf confuse me at first. I was just wondering how common it was as it is the first time I've seen this
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I have a brother and sister who both married their first cousins although from 3 different families
brother and sister James and Helen mother sister 1
James married Jane daughter of sister 2
Helen married Andrew son of sister 3
James and Jane had 5 children including 1 son James
Jane also had a brother John who married and had a daughter Agnes
James jr and Agnes married they had 6 children including 1 son who married Helen and Andrews grand daughter
Confused ? I was
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Jane also had a brother John who married and had a daughter Agnes
James jr and Agnes married they had 6 children including 1 son who married Helen and Andrews grand daughter
Confused ? I was
Blimey that's worse than mine :D :D
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I also have many instances of brothers/sisters marrying sisters/brothers including my own parents my fathers brother married my mums sister my cousins are both female and happily married to non blood relatives I am happy to report
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I did a double-take when I saw this - and then a double check. So these are cousins who have FOUR grandparents in common instead of the usual two as in most cousin marriages? Then they marry? Any child of theirs would have just those four great-grandparents instead of the usual eight?
You don't say if the double-cousins marrying had any children, but it would surely be very risky? I have instances in my tree of first cousins marrying and choosing not to have children, but others where they've gone ahead with no noticeable ill effects.
Perhaps the taboo against such marriages was because in those days there was not only the first cousin consanguinity but other such mixing of genes in the past, known or unknown. Nowadays when you're much more likely to marry outside your own community that risk is lessened?
Chris
(goes off to examine the Drapers of Cubbington who have many second-cousin and similar marriages but none AFAICR between those cousins where brothers married sisters. Were they aware of the problem?)
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https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/double-first-cousin-marriage/
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This happened with one of my direct ancestors cousins. They married, had a few babies, large gaps in between and none of them survived past 3 mon :(. I suspect that the close relationship of the parents had something to do with it.
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I did a double-take when I saw this - and then a double check. So these are cousins who have FOUR grandparents in common instead of the usual two as in most cousin marriages? Then they marry? Any child of theirs would have just those four great-grandparents instead of the usual eight?
You don't say if the double-cousins marrying had any children, but it would surely be very risky? I have instances in my tree of first cousins marrying and choosing not to have children, but others where they've gone ahead with no noticeable ill effects.
Perhaps the taboo against such marriages was because in those days there was not only the first cousin consanguinity but other such mixing of genes in the past, known or unknown. Nowadays when you're much more likely to marry outside your own community that risk is lessened?
Chris
(goes off to examine the Drapers of Cubbington who have many second-cousin and similar marriages but none AFAICR between those cousins where brothers married sisters. Were they aware of the problem?)
No the double cousins didn't have any children they married when he was 35 (second marriage for him) and she was 29
The funny thing is that the 3 original sisters grew up in Angus Scotland Jane and her children emigrated to Canada after the death of her husband to live with her brother and his wife
Helen and Andrew stayed in Angus and the double cousins met when he came over to Scotland as a Canadian soldier during WW1
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Also to add further Helen and Andrew were my 2x Gt grandparents they had 7 children 2 died of scarlet fever in 1868 aged 3 and 1
3 survived to adulthood married and had children of their own
the other 2 died as young adults of illness
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This happened with one of my direct ancestors cousins. They married, had a few babies, large gaps in between and none of them survived past 3 mon :(. I suspect that the close relationship of the parents had something to do with it.
So sad - it might have been a factor. However I have families where the parents were almost certainly unrelated who still lost all their babies - a C19th reality.
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So these are cousins who have FOUR grandparents in common instead of the usual two as in most cousin marriages? Then they marry? Any child of theirs would have just those four great-grandparents instead of the usual eight?
You don't say if the double-cousins marrying had any children,
Hi Chris
Yes, the two cousins shared the same 4 grandparents, and they had children, making only four great-grandparents instead of the normal eight.
It took me a little while to head my head round it, thought I was going daft at first :D
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I've just had a look at the 1911 census and the double cousins had eight children of which four survived
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Wow. In his autobiography Richard Dawkins tells of a double cousin - and says they have as many genes in common as would half-brothers - and he should know! You wouldn't be allowed to marry your half-sibling!
So you don't know this family - but any record of how the four survivors got on - did they marry, were they on the 1939 doing a job, etc? No disability listed in 1911 I gather?
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Wow. In his autobiography Richard Dawkins tells of a double cousin - and says they have as many genes in common as would half-brothers - and he should know! You wouldn't be allowed to marry your half-sibling!
So you don't know this family - but any record of how the four survivors got on - did they marry, were they on the 1939 doing a job, etc? No disability listed in 1911 I gather?
According to the list of forbidden marriages it is legal to marry your double cousin
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Wow. In his autobiography Richard Dawkins tells of a double cousin - and says they have as many genes in common as would half-brothers - and he should know! You wouldn't be allowed to marry your half-sibling!
So you don't know this family - but any record of how the four survivors got on - did they marry, were they on the 1939 doing a job, etc? No disability listed in 1911 I gather?
According to the list of forbidden marriages it is legal to marry your double cousin
Yes I know - it would be difficult to enforce if it weren't - but it's slightly scary that you share as many genes as you would with a half-sibling.
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Has anyone come across this before? I have a pair of double cousins who marry each other, a brother & sister of one family marry a brother & sister from another, then a child from each pair marry. It did 'arf confuse me at first. I was just wondering how common it was as it is the first time I've seen this
Cripes - more a genetic puddle than a genetic pool.
BugBear
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I have 3 brothers who married 3 sisters in Suffolk.
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I have 3 brothers who married 3 sisters in Suffolk.
Yes - but did any of their "double cousin" offspring marry each other? That's what this thread is about.
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I have 3 brothers who married 3 sisters in Suffolk.
Yes - but did any of their "double cousin" offspring marry each other? That's what this thread is about.
Yes they did and I do know what this thread is about.
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Yes they did and I do know what this thread is about.
Fair enough - so you have double cousins who marry each other. Did they have children? And, as I asked Duck, any evidence of anything - shall we say - unusual about any children they had?