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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: chiddicks on Sunday 26 November 17 11:59 GMT (UK)
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This is something close to my heart and a sensitive subject, but I thought it is worthy of discussion and thought. Therefore I have written a blog regarding the subject.
When is a Father a Father? https://chiddicksfamilytree.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/when-is-a-father-a-father
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To explore all avenues of research for my family tree, I have just taken up the latest cyber Monday offer of a DNA testing kit with ancestry. Have no expectations of the results, but would be absolutely delighted to find new global cousins somewhere.
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As "genealogists" we seek to follow the family history back as far as it goes.
Very simply - do not ask the question if you are afraid of the answer!
In some cases it is a bumpy ride, full of frustration , occasional extacy in finding a key fact, sometimes a bit of a grind, never boring and ALWAYS interesting.
Tenacity is the key - keep at it.
Enjoy the journey for what ever the outcome is and hopefully you can find someone in your kinship to pass the bug onto to keep it alive.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Thanks Jack,
I just wonder if people are prepared sometimes for what they uncover, as you say, it can be a bumpy ride across un charted waters, life is full of challenges!
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People read too much into DNA and think it can always prove parentage, that is incorrect.
DNA may prove the possibility of parentage but it cannot prove parentage.
DNA cannot always even prove the woman who gives birth to a baby, in front of witnesses for a court of law, is the baby's mother.
Until people understand the failings of any system that system is of little use.
Cheers
Guy
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As "genealogists" we seek to follow the family history back as far as it goes.
Cheers
Jack Gee
I'd be interested to hear the opinion of others on this, Jack. I set out to find out about my grandfather who died 15 years before I was born. I found out that he was actually my great grandfather, due to a family conspiracy, and I have no great wish to go back much beyond 1850. I feel I can relate to people over the last 150 odd years, and imagine their lives, but I actually think it gets a bit meaningless if you go back much further. Am I alone in this view?
Martin
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Hi Martin n al,
i thank you for your input.
I humbly withdraw my assumption that ALL genealogist try to go as far back as possible.
We all have a different journey.
And i wish all of those that undertake the journey the best of luck for the trip.
The DNA is a different kettle of fish. It is a tool to be used to be pointed in the right direct.
Cheers
Jack
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As "genealogists" we seek to follow the family history back as far as it goes.
Cheers
Jack Gee
I'd be interested to hear the opinion of others on this, Jack. I set out to find out about my grandfather who died 15 years before I was born. I found out that he was actually my great grandfather, due to a family conspiracy, and I have no great wish to go back much beyond 1850. I feel I can relate to people over the last 150 odd years, and imagine their lives, but I actually think it gets a bit meaningless if you go back much further. Am I alone in this view?
Martin
An interesting question Martin but can we really imagine the lives of our ancestors other than our parents or perhaps grandparent’s generation.
Life has changed so much in the years I have lived that my children do not really have any idea what my life was like as a child, it was easier for me to imagine my parents’ lives as children or even my grandparents’ lives as children than for my children to put themselves in my place.
Why do I think that? Because of technology, I was raised in a village or rural community, my life was similar to my mother’s life and her parents’ lives before her, but my children apart from being brought up in a city grew up at a time when technology thrived.
For example we had a single coal fire in the house I grew up in which was in the living room, it was lit in the morning and allowed to die overnight, my children had a centrally heated house where heat was available 24 hours a day.
We had no telephone or TV my children had TV & a house phone from birth and individual mobile phones as soon as they started working.
Growing up in a rural setting I could relate to my ancestors lives far more easily than my children could relate to them or even my early life.
Thinking about it apart from technology the difference is not so much the time difference (years) as the difference in location there was not a vast difference between my early life and my great grandparents’ lives, there was however a huge difference between my children’s early lives and my early life.
On the other hand my wife was brought up in a city and again discounting technology there is a far smaller difference between her early life and our children’s early life.
There is a 13 year age gap between my wife and myself but in that time period and regional differences (she is from East London, Essex, where as I am from Scotland) her parents had a TV and a house phone etc.
Another difference is I grew up at a time when horses were very much present on the scene, they were still being used on local farms but much of the farm machinery was being brought to the village smithy to have tow bars attached so they could be pulled by tractor.
However where my wife lived there were few horses about except for rag & bone men a few riding horses for leisure.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks everyone for the really good input and debate. I do really think that it's a good topic to discuss and debate from both angles. Neither DNA genealogy testing or Birth Registration can prove categorically where we came from. Therefore the drive and strive to find out who we are isn't always necessarily based upon the hard facts.
We become who we are by the influences around us, which is beautifully illustrated in Guy's post above.
My argument is A father is the loving, caring, kind, supporting person, the one that is the provider, the protector, the role model, the friend, the teacher, at times the disciplinarian, and the fun guy, the one who always listens, plus a whole lot more as well!
Does a birth certificate or DNA test prove or disprove this???
I also think that a lot of us have family connections similar to that which Martin uncovered, so when we set out on our journey we need to go into it with open eyes and be aware of the potential info we can find out.
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This is something close to my heart and a sensitive subject, but I thought it is worthy of discussion and thought. Therefore I have written a blog regarding the subject.
When is a Father a Father? https://chiddicksfamilytree.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/when-is-a-father-a-father
I think the term is very well defined, in the context of genealogy. If you want to choose a different context, that's fine too.
BugBear
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How we document the modern extended and diverse modern families of today, for future generations will be a difficult one!
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How we document the modern extended and diverse modern families of today, for future generations will be a difficult one!
Not genealogically (although science may change that soon). Yes, socially.
BugBear
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Guy makes some good points. Being of similar age I also find it easy to imagine the lives of my grandparents and great grandparents because there are common points of reference. I think it will be much harder for future generations to relate to their ancestors, although it probably won't be long before 'virtual reality' can give them the 'experience'. In the future most experiences will most likely be 'virtual' anyway :-\
Some years ago I was researching an ancestor, born in the 1700s, when it suddenly struck me that he would not have had electric or gas lighting, probably drew water from a pump in the street, no railways, etc. I know these are obvious points that we are all conscious of in an abstract way but somehow at that moment it became real and personal and I began to think of my ancestors in a different way. Some of the better costume dramas and historic documentaries on TV can give insights into the way of life of our ancestors. In attempting to write a book of my family history I try to include references to known historical events as they might have affected my ancestors at the time.
Apologies for drifting off topic :-[
Mike.
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Working the generation thread -
My parents were a product of the Depression of the 1930's and as such raised our family frugally. My genie journey also makes me think about the each of the generations and how they lived.
cheers
Jack Gee
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We are all a product of our genes but also our family life and the values and beliefs that are installed in us as children are the characteristics that stand us in good stead today.
To use that quote:
Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.
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My husband has never known who his father is. His mother always maintained that she got drunk at a party and didn't know who it was.
However fast forward a few years and her husband was under the care of a consultant at a local hospital. She was at our house a day or so later and announced "Oh, I saw your father while I was at the hospital with D (her husband). I would have known him anywhere."
Fast forward a few years more, and my husband has developed a few medical conditions. When he's told his mum, she's said, oh yes, I've had that for a while.
It frightens me that there may be something inheritable from his father that we will never know about and can't warn our children about. As it stands, they both have a double whammy of diabetes from both of us that they're at risk from.
Sadly, my mother in law doesn't have long to live. My other halfs only option, should he decide to, is going to be spit in a tube.