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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: telephonist on Monday 27 November 17 23:12 GMT (UK)
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The 1841 census has some possible relations for me.
Their address listed is Helson Farm.
Civil parish Crediton.
Anyone any idea of where this farm is, I've tried to see on the Internet but wondered if this is the correct spelling etc.
Also looking for a marriage for them.
Samuel HAll aged 40 a Yeoman
Johanna his wife aged 35
and some children.
Thanks for any help.
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and some children.
No age given for eldest child to give some clue to a likely marriage date - he was 12yrs
Son William is 1yr old - have you checked for a birth reg on freebmd then used GRO online to get mothers maiden name? I can see one in 1839
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Is Johanna on the 1851 census - where and when was she born?
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There's a marriage of a Samuel Hall to a Johana Hill 2 Dec 1823 Sandford Devon could this be it also christening records for 8 children from 1825 to 1839 in Crediton Devon
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That marriage sounds right - there is 82 year old Elizabeth HILL living with the family in 1841 at Crediton.
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I think it is "Helson Farm", though I can't help with its location. In 1870 there is a newspaper report of a Mr Searle of Helson Farm, Crediton who "fell down and expired" leaving a widow and 11 children.
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette, Friday, February 4, 1870, Vol. LXXXII, Issue 4065, p.8.
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There is an article about Samuel's death in 1848
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette (Exeter, England), Saturday, March 4, 1848, Vol. LIX, Issue 2930, p.7.
I could attach if you haven't seen it?
Says he was an innkeeper at Coplestone.
Modified to add: Also a sale of his property (after his death), the Coplestone Inn (to let) and farm called Higher Elston.
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette (Exeter, England), Saturday, March 18, 1848, Vol. LIX, Issue 2938, p.1.
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I think it is "Helson Farm", though I can't help with its location. In 1870 there is a newspaper report of a Mr Searle of Helson Farm, Crediton who "fell down and expired" leaving a widow and 11 children.
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette, Friday, February 4, 1870, Vol. LXXXII, Issue 4065, p.8.
Alternative spelling could be what appears to be Mr Searle's Widow and family in 1871 census:-
ELSTON Farm headed by Jane Searle 48 RG10/2162/73/18
Keyboard86
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Sorry keyboard, I modified my post to add "Higher Elston" while you were typing apparently. ;D
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Wow thanks so much for all this info. I do not have any record relating to his death or sale of property, would love to have it.
Kind regards to you all.
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Here is the article about his death. (I'm never quite sure about copyright, so I've transcribed it)
"Crediton.
Fatal Accident – On Friday night last, a lamentable accident caused the death of Mr Samuel Hall, a respectable innkeeper of Coplestone. It appears that the deceased rode to the farm of Mr Bodley, which he left again about eight o’clock, and proceeded on his way home. A short distance from Mr Bodley’s house, a bridge with a very low parapet crosses the river Yeo, - over this bridge a boy was crossing about ten o’clock, and heard a great deal of plunging in the water, and upon his alarming some people who lived near, the horse which Mr H had ridden was discovered. All doubt as to the fate of the unfortunate man had now vanished, and every exertion was made to recover the body, but in vain, - till on Monday afternoon, when it was discovered in a deep hole of the river some 150 yards from the bridge. It is supposed that the horse (which was blind) became frightened, and plunged with his rider over the parapet, which, we believe, is not a yard high. Mr Hall leaves a widow and eight children to lament his untimely death. The bridge, we understand, is to be indicted at the ensuing assizes, on the principal of “when the steed is gone, shut the stable door.” There are many such bridges in the county, each of which, we hope, will not require a fatal accident to ensure its being rendered safe for travellers."
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette (Exeter, England), Saturday, March 4, 1848, Vol. LIX, Issue 2930, p.7.
And the sale of property after his death:
"Crediton
To be let by tender, for a term of seven years from Lady Day next.
Lot 1 – all that excellent and well established INN and POSTING HOUSE called the Copplestone Inn, situate near Copplestone, in the parish and about 4 miles from the town of Crediton, on the Turnpike road between Exeter and Barnstaple, with a large Malthouse, good Stabling, and about thirty Acres of Land (of which about four Acres are Garden and Orchard) adjoining the said Inn, for many years in the occupation of the late Mr Saml Hall, and now of Mrs Joanna Hall, his widow.
Lot 2 – all that MESSUAGE and FARM called HIGHER ELSTON, comprising a Dwelling House, with suitable Outbuildings and about thirty four acres of Orchard, Arable, Meadow and Pasture Land, situate in the said parish of Crediton, and recently also in the occupation of the said SAMUEL HALL deceased.
The Taker will be required to discharge all Rates and Taxes, including the Tithe Commutation Rent Charge, and to do the usual Tenants repairs.
Separate Tenders in writing for Taking the Property as comprised in the above Lots may be sent on or before the 31st day of March instant to the office of Mr Pring in Crediton.
To view the respective Lots apply at the Copplestone Inn aforesaid, and any further information may be obtained on application to Mr John HALL, High street, or to Mr Pring, Solicitor, Crediton.
Dated 13 March, 1848."
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette (Exeter, England), Saturday, March 18, 1848, Vol. LIX, Issue 2938, p.1.
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There are quite a few mentions of Samuel HALL in the newspapers. One of his ploughmen, Samuel BICKNELL was often successful in the Crediton Ploughing Match - 2nd in 1836, a prize in 1840, 5th place in 1841, a prize in 1842. He also attended the Sandford Ploughing Match in 1841.
He began at the Copplestone Inn in 1843 - this advertisement appeared in September
"Copplestone Inn, on the new Road from Exeter and Crediton to the North of Devon.
Samuel Hall respectively begs leave to acquaint the Nobility, Gentry, Clergy, and the Public in general, that he intends on the 29th instant, entering on the above-mentioned Inn, his Property, and immediately to fit up the same in the most comfortable manner; and he confidently hopes that by keeping a well supplied Larder; Liquors of the best description; good Beds well aired; good Horses and Carriages, with careful drivers; by unremitting attention to the comforts of his guests; and by very moderate charges, he shall succeed in obtaining a considerable share of the patronage of persons travelling on the above line of road, and which it will be as well his constant desire and study to merit, as by his great gratitude to evince or acknowledge.
N.B. A rest and keep for Catlle of every description, at moderate charges, may always be obtained on the Farm belonging and contigious to the above establishment.
Copplestone, Crediton, September 25, 1843."
Exeter and Plymouth Gazette, Saturday, September 30, 1843, Vol. LIII, Issue 2699, p.1.
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Samuel's son also had an accident in February 1846, also reported in the news:
"Tiverton – accident – On Friday last, as the “Rival” coach to Barnstaple was leaving the Three Tuns, a youth named Samuel Hall (eldest son of Mr S Hall of the Copplestone Inn, Crediton) made an unsuccessful attempt to get up behind, but fell off. Irritated at this he ran after the coach, and made another attempt, but his leg getting in between the spokes of the wheel was broken just above the ancle [sic]. Had not the coachman stopped instantaneously he must have been killed on the spot. Mr John Beedle, surgeon, was called to his assistance immediately, and he is going on well.”
Western Times, Saturday, February 14, 1846, Vol. XVIII, Issue 927, p.5.
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There are various mentions of "Elston Farm" Crediton in newspapers that I can see, the first (in papers I have access to) is in 1774 where it is for sale, though let to John NORRITH (?) for 21 years from 1767.
Of more interest to you though may be that in 1827 there was a large sale of stock and furniture at Lower Elston Farm "the property of the late Mr John Hall".
Modified to add: and if you google "Elston Farm Crediton", there are quite a few hits. ;)
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Great reading, thanks so much for this.
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http://maps.nls.uk/view/101443723
A map showing Copplestone and Higher Elston
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1851 census shows Johanna Hall as head and several children at home, I am interested in the son Edwin aged 4. A scholar .
I havent found him in other census.
Maybe he is at a boarding school?
In 1861 Johanna is home alone.
Is anyone able to help me trace Edwin please?
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There is an Edwin HALL aged 14 born Copplestone (very near Crediton, where the family Inn was) at a boarding school at Shaldon, Newton Abbot in 1861. John W PRIDEAUX is the head, with 19 students.
RG09/1401 / 120 page 5
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Edwin is also mentioned in the news, in 1857
Western Times, Saturday, June 20, 1857, Vol. XXX, Issue 1503, p.7.
(Perhaps if he was getting into trouble, may have been a reason to send him away to school?)
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Hello again, I am posting the marriage cert for my relative, possible great grandfather, Edward/Edwin Hall.
Have previously looked for Edward not Edwin but take a look at the marriage cert where it seems he has signed himself as Edwin?
Where to from here, have failed to find him in NZ other than on marriage cert and his sons birth cert in 1880 where his name is listed as Edward Waters HALL a butcher Devon aged 30.
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It does look like he signed his name Edwin, at least the dot above suggests an "i" doesn't it.
There is another Edwin HALL in Devon also born c 1847, with parents James and Sarah, though I think I can follow him through ending up a coal miner in Wales.
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There is an Edwin HALL aged 65 who died in NZ on 3 Dec 1912 (1912/7276) - the right age for your man. Though I can't see an death notice or obit unfortunately.
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Perhaps you could post on the NZ board for more sightings of Edwin/Edward. Knowledgeable people there may be able to find his arrival and other details about him?
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There is an Edwin HALL aged 14 born Copplestone (very near Crediton, where the family Inn was) at a boarding school at Shaldon, Newton Abbot in 1861. John W PRIDEAUX is the head, with 19 students.
RG09/1401 / 120 page 5
Anyone know if there would be records for this boarding school available - wanting to find the names of parents of Edwin HALL aged 14 at school if possible please?
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Perhaps you could post on the NZ board for more sightings of Edwin/Edward. Knowledgeable people there may be able to find his arrival and other details about him?
Thankyou for all your help-I will try and follow up the death you told me of although i think i looked at this years ago. I know that he was in NZ four years prior to his marriage in 1877.
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I see from another thread that spades found the intention to marry for Edwin/Edward and Mary.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=81510.msg342075#msg342075
NZ Intention to Marry Notice.
National Library, Wellington.
Ref: BDM 20/22 1877 Hokitika p.561 No. 719 Microfiche R3594.
Notice dated 29 January 1877: Mary MCCARTHY, widow, a Servant aged 32 years, dwelling at Hokitika, length of residence 4 years, to marry Edward (Edwin) HALL, bachelor, a Butcher aged 27 years, dwelling at Hokitika, length of residence 4 months, at St Mary’s Church, Hokitika.
Certificate dated 7 February 1877. Reverend P.(A.?) MARTIN.
This says he was in residence 4 months.
I'm wondering what evidence you have that he did indeed come from Devon?
There is an Edwin HALL aged 14 born Copplestone (very near Crediton, where the family Inn was) at a boarding school at Shaldon, Newton Abbot in 1861. John W PRIDEAUX is the head, with 19 students.
RG09/1401 / 120 page 5
Anyone know if there would be records for this boarding school available - wanting to find the names of parents of Edwin HALL aged 14 at school if possible please?
I think it's a pretty good match for the Edwin, son of Samuel and Joanne! ;)
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There is an Edwin HALL aged 65 who died in NZ on 3 Dec 1912 (1912/7276) - the right age for your man. Though I can't see an death notice or obit unfortunately.
I have emailed my library to see where this death occurred, should hear tomorrow.
Edward/Edwin born Devon as shown on his marriage cert in 1877.
I see on UK BDM there is an Edward Hall born Tiverton June qtr 1850 - I put a note on there years ago but nothing eventuated. Does he show up in the 1851 or 1861 census by any chance?
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Sorry, yes I should have realised it said Devon on the marriage cert. :-[
According to the GRO, there is an Edward HILL registered Sep qtr 1850 Tiverton (10/256) mother's maiden name SALTER. There is also an Edward HALE registered Jun qtr 1850 Tiverton (10/265) mmn TOOZE.
Will look for them ...
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There is a death for an Edward HOLE registered Tiverton in 1856, aged 6. I suspect this is the Edward HALE born 1850 with mmn TOOZE. (Edward HOLE married Elizabeth TOOZE in Tiverton 1846.)
That leaves Edward HILL, who I think is the child of John and Sarah (though you would need to get the birth cert to be sure), but based on mother's maiden name and other children born to them registered at Tiverton, I'm pretty sure this is them in the 1851 census at Kentisbeare: (all born at Kentisbeare)
John Hill 44 Kentisbeare mason
Sarah Hill 42
Sarah Hill 18
Mary A Hill 16
Henry Hill 14
William Hill 12
James Hill 9
Charles Hill 5
Edward Hill 0
HO107/1888 / 332 p16
They also have another son John b c1831 who is with them in the 1841 census.
I can't see Edward in later censuses, though at least Henry and James are also masons in the 1861 census.
(There are 5 Edward HILL's born in Devon between 1849 and 1851, and an Edwin Mugford HILL in 1849 that you could also look at? - all can be found on Free BMD)
Modified to add: Edwin Mugford HILL appears in the 1881 census at Bovey Tracey, so you can rule him out.
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Sorry, yes I should have realised it said Devon on the marriage cert. :-[
According to the GRO, there is an Edward HILL registered Sep qtr 1850 Tiverton (10/256) mother's maiden name SALTER. There is also an Edward HALE registered Jun qtr 1850 Tiverton (10/265) mmn TOOZE.
Will look for them ...
Freebmd has Edward HALL reg June qtr 1850 Tiverton - is this the same as your man above HALE
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Yes, the GRO have transcribed it as HALE, whilst it is HALL on FreeBMD. Tiverton 10/ 265
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A long shot - there is a 17 year old Edwin HALL arriving in Hervey Bay Queensland on 30 March 1864 on the Prince Consort which departed Plymouth 25 Dec 1863. :-\
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Thanks so much for all for help, this is an interesting find.
So right now I have an Edwin Hall born 1847 Crediton.
In the census with other siblings in family - mother Johanna as head in 1851 ,aged 4 years then father Samuel killed in accident 1848 .
then in 1861 census at a boarding school Teignbridge house. aged 14 years.
1861 census his mother is home alone.
Now your possible find of Edwin coming to Australia 1863 as 17 year old.
If only.....Even if this is him how could i ever prove it????? need to find how he got to NZ if it tis him.....
And an Edwin Hall who dies in NZ 3/12/1912
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I think if it were me I'd be ordering that death certificate. I know you said you looked at it some time ago, but unless you know for certain it is not your man, it could have some very enlightening info on it. ;)
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Thanks so much , I am going to get the cert, will let you know how and when i get on.
Merry Christmas and thanks for all your input.
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There is a death for an Edward HOLE registered Tiverton in 1856, aged 6. I suspect this is the Edward HALE born 1850 with mmn TOOZE. (Edward HOLE married Elizabeth TOOZE in Tiverton 1846.)
That leaves Edward HILL, who I think is the child of John and Sarah (though you would need to get the birth cert to be sure), but based on mother's maiden name and other children born to them registered at Tiverton, I'm pretty sure this is them in the 1851 census at Kentisbeare: (all born at Kentisbeare)
John Hill 44 Kentisbeare mason
Sarah Hill 42
Sarah Hill 18
Mary A Hill 16
Henry Hill 14
William Hill 12
James Hill 9
Charles Hill 5
Edward Hill 0
HO107/1888 / 332 p16
They also have another son John b c1831 who is with them in the 1841 census.
I can't see Edward in later censuses, though at least Henry and James are also masons in the 1861 census.
(There are 5 Edward HILL's born in Devon between 1849 and 1851, and an Edwin Mugford HILL in 1849 that you could also look at? - all can be found on Free BMD)
Modified to add: Edwin Mugford HILL appears in the 1881 census at Bovey Tracey, so you can rule him out.
Hello , I did get the pdf of the birth certificate and it is as you say. Are you able to look on the 1851 census for the Edward Hole married TOOZE for that family please?
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Unfortunately, I can't see the family on the 1851 census. From the GRO, it appears there is only 2 children registered at Tiverton with mmn TOOZE: Elizabeth HALL in 1847 and Edward HALE in 1850. (Very difficult with all the possibilities in surname!)
Did you get the death certificate for Edwin HALL in NZ?