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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Brewins girl on Tuesday 28 November 17 18:42 GMT (UK)
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My uncle who served in REME wrote in a letter "we are getting our khaki berets now" - this was April 1944.
Two questions please 1. What would he have worn before this date 2. Why were these issued so late in the war?
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I forgot to add that he said that he would probably look like Angus MacPherson" now that he had his khaki beret. Does anyone have any idea who Angus MacPherson might have been (Ive assumed he was a well-known or even famous person, rather than just a friend or acquaintance)
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Not an expert on this but possibly because a unit (other than tank crews and the like) on active service would have little use for a beret as they were not worn under helmets.
Cheers
Guy
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That's interesting Guy, but up until this point he was based in the UK, where REME were moved around wherever Anti-Aircraft positions required its service, so I think it was unlikely that he would have worn a helmet.
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If you Google REME uniform 1944 it shows both types of headgear.
I don't know what it is called, but is the cap that sits on the side of the head. My Dad wore one in the Royal Horse Artillery. I always wondered how they managed to keep them on!
REME
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The one that sits on the side of the head was called a side hat :) (there was a much ruder name also, not for publication). Chances are that is what he was wearing before the beret.
MaxD
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;D ;D ;D
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The one that sits on the side of the head was called a side hat
I think it was a F S (Field Service) Cap
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"side hat" and "field service cap" - are these the same as 'forage caps'?
Thank you all for your help - I did as giggyscat suggested and compared photos from pre- and post-1944 and guess that the 'khaki berets' were issued to replace the FS caps. My husband told me how National Service soldiers would boil their berets to shrink them!
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In the period we are talking about, a Forage cap has a peak, also called a service dress cap. Side hat is (one of the) familiar term for ShaunJ's cap, field service. The khaki beret was cap, general service or cap, ridiculous.
MaxD
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That's made me chuckle, 'cap ridiculous'. My husband also told me that some soldiers boiled their berets too long, shrinking them too much, when indeed they must have looked even more ridiculous!
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Absolutely right - goes with shaving the "hair" off the inside of battledress trousers and smearing soap along the inside of the crease to make the crease sharper when ironed and "ironing" the bobbles off the surface of "boots ammunition" to make a smooth surface ready to be bulled. Happy days.
MaxD
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To those of you in particular who responded to my question for information about the issue of Khaki berets to REME in WW2 (April 1944 to be precise), I thought you might be interested in some material I found on my recent trip to The National Archives.
In WO/32/14393 there was correspondence about the formation of REME in May 1942 and the designs for its badges and buttons. On the issue of berets, here are some extracts from memoranda.
"...on the possibilities of production of a Beręt for REME. He* tells me that there are three or four million caps F.S. available for issue and therefore it seems that it would be wrong to introduce a Beręt for REME in view of the raw material situation. D.O.S. tells me that the REME Badge will have to be issued in brown plastic material owing to the shortage of metal, so that the question of a white metal badge as opposed to brass does not arise. May a ruling be given please. [Indecipherable name] Chairman REME Cttee".
"We spoke. I should like your views. The F.S. cap is a great nuisance when working in or under vehicles and I want to give the Corps a good start off."
"I would like to give the Corps a good start off, but in view of the supply situation I do not think that knitted berets can be approved now. As a matter of fact I think that the great majority of the personnel who work under vehicles prefer to do so with out any headgear on at all, and of course in workshops they do not wear headgear." It was agreed that the matter be reviewed in 6months time (ie November 1942).
I still haven't been able to find out who 'Angus MacPherson' was (my uncle wrote that he thought he would "...look like Angus MacPherson" in his new khaki beret, and I need to return to TNA to see if there is anything more about the issue of khaki berets.
I also found at TNA that when it was decided to replace ARP (Air Raid Precautions) badges with CD (Civil Defence) ones, changing the colour of the lettering from red to yellow, there was dismay at the Ministry of Supply, Raw Materials Department as that decision would entail using chrome compounds - these were not only in short supply, but were also needed for khaki dyeing, service footwear and chrome metal manufacture. The correspondence about that issue was fascinating!
[* "He" was D.O.S. - not sure if this was a person's intials, or abbreviations for a role.]
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Good stuff and illustrates how unstraightfoward (is that a word?) things can be, two sentence answers don't always cut it!
DOS was Director of Ordnance Services.
MaxD
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Now why am I not surprised that you'd respond with the info about DOS? Thank you as always
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I'm thinking of employing you as a researcher at Kew :)
MaxD
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Be careful what you wish for! It's only distance from home (Shropshire) and the cost of travel and accommodation that stops me from spending more time there! I was able to combine my last visit with my husband's attendance at a conference so it helped offset accommodation and I knew he was gainfully employed. I've always come away with fascinating and useful material and am getting better at pre-ordering and knowing what I'm looking for, although equally I have found material I didn't know I needed/wanted!
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Angus MacP was probably a generic term for a Scot. Many Scots soldiers wore the tam o’shanter or other variations, but much larger than a beret.
A
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I hadn't thought about Angus MacP being a generic term - its an interesting idea and will certainly do for now!
Ron had a friend who he called 'Taffy' - he was Welsh, and his real name was Glen! Ron's initials were RMB - he once signed himself 'Roger Baker, the Army nickname for me".
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Roger Baker would now be Romeo Bravo!
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;)