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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Lesanne on Wednesday 29 November 17 18:32 GMT (UK)
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Help please to find records of Corporal Richard Charles Holmes 2322 7th Royal Sussex.
Awarded Belgian Croix de Guerre, Ypres, October 1917.
His next of kin would be great...
This link gave information that just doesn't seem to come up with him in census etc...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PT8RBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT328&lpg=PT328&dq=richard%20charles%20holmes%20sussex%20regiment&source=bl&ots=CAq6boQ1oq&sig=NK2tgkfIA7OBaU1yt-v4CL6fs04&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX2eur89zXAhVGDsAKHfBUDf0Q6AEIXzAM#v=onepage&q=richard%20charles%20holmes%20sussex%20regiment&f=false
sorry abt the huge link :)
TIA
Lesanne
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There is a Richard C. Holmes born 1882 living at Hove in the 1939 Register - however I don't have access to this. Suggest you try your local library as many do have subscriptions to Find My Past who have this information.
jds1949
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There is MRI entry showing he was awarded the British & Victory medals. No theatre of war shown and his reg number was SD2322
No birth reg to support a birth in Harwich 1882
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Thank you for replies.
Yes, the 1939 Hove has a Richard C Holmes. Lily Holmes poss wife b 1894.
There is a marriage in Steyning 1912 with a Lucy Cooper, but I cannot find him anywhere in census.
Thank you
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His medal roll entry shows he served first with 12th Battalion Royal Sussex who went to France in 1916 and with 9th Battalion as well as 7th Battalion.
His Croix de Guerre was gazetted 12 July 1918, one of 1137 men of the British forces honoured in that list. His residence is given as Shoreham by Sea.
The book implies he went to France with the 7th Battalion but they went in 1915 and he has no 1914-15 Star. The Ypres reference is also strange. The 7th Battalion were in the area of Arras, 50 or so km south of Ypres in Oct 17, they were in the line about 4 days and there is no mention of any action that suggest his award was related to this period. One wonders whether they have the battalion or the time period wrong? I'll have a look at the other battalions later.
Unfortunately his service record would appear to be among those lost in the WW2 bombing so I'm not sure of finding answers.
MaxD
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There are several Holmes , mmn Cooper , births registered in Steyning :
Lucy M 1917
Esther L L 1916
Richard F J J 1912
Charles D A 1913
Gwendolin L M 1914
Kathleen M 1915
Some of these names may in with the 1939 entry mentioned.
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Attested in the 12 Batt. At some point transferred to the 9th. & finally the 7th.
The SD prefix indicates a Reservist (South Down) this would imply the 12th.
OK I see MaxD beat me to it.
I notice the 9th. Batt. were on the Ypres Salient 1917.
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Some wonderful replies so far. Thank you :)
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sorry abt the huge link
You can use the "Shrink link" at the bottom of this page. Copy and paste the large link and it gives you this
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l41/
There is a death in 1953 in Hove for a Richard W C L Holmes aged 70 but can't find a birth with all those initials
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There is a death in 1953 in Hove for a Richard W C L Holmes aged 70 but can't find a birth with all those initials
New GRO death index says Richard Walter Charles Lancelot Holmes
And the new birth index has a possible
March 1883 Tendring 4a 437
Holmes, Walter Charles Lancelot
mother Williams
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Walter Holmes, 18, born Harwich in 1901. Van Guard
Living in Southwark, mother Rhoda
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9HS-JPG
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Marriages Dec 1878
HOLMES James Henry Tendring 4a 516
WILLIAMS Rhoda Isabella Tendring 4a 516
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Of the two other battalions, 9th and 12th, from their diaries only the 12th would be described as being in the Ypres area in Oct 1917. (The 9th were in the Hargicourt area). There is nothing in the war diary that would suggest an award for any particular act.
Without his record one cannot say which battalion he was in in October 1917 and equally one cannot know what the award was for. There are a number of errors in the book so my take on this would be simply to know that your man distinguished himself in some way at some time such that the British chain of command passed his name to the Belgians so that he and others could be recognised by our ally.
MaxD
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Thank you Max for you time.
I have rung a few libraries trying to find this book.
There should be sources/citation/ biblio' etc to where the info was found.
Carol and Jon.. thank you both too... but what made you go to 'Walter' ?
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but what made you go to 'Walter' ?
Hi
Well, he has a lot of names on that death registration. But there doesn't seem to be a likely Richard Holmes around. For some reason, if this is the right chap, he seems to have later called himself Richard, but no idea why.
The rest of them - Walter Charles Lancelot - matches up with the birth in Tendring (which we believe is that Walter from Harwich in the census)
John
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Thank you Jon.
'Walter' appears in 1901 only.
(Just found) In service records of Leonard A R (Alan Raymund)b 1888 Southwark is a 'Walter'.. as an older brother. Mother Rhoda.
Now I need to find a reason for 'Richard'..
How would I find if Rhoda is the mother of Richard C Holmes / Lucy (nee Cooper) .. 1939 Hove.
who we think maybe the 1953 death in Sussex.
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Hi
Well this could be her death
June 1919 Wandsworth 1d 573
Holmes, Rhoda Isabella
age 65
And her burial, 25 April (right down the bottom)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TP-LRP?i=459&cat=505052
I guess that if we had Walter's date of birth we could compare it with Richard's from the 1939 Register. We know it says Richard was born 1882, and playing around with the search to the free index suggests the birth month was December (which could tie in with Walter's birth reg, March qtr 1883)
Where was Walter in 1891 and 1911?
John
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1891 for Southwark
James H Holmes 34 b ?? Asia minor - British subject - occ clerk
Rhoda I 35 b Kent
Francis H N 9 b Harwich
Leonard A R 3 b Southwark
RG12 Piece 349 Folio 113 Page 16
Can you tell us why you are researching this person - is he an ancestor?
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Births June qtr 1888
HOLMES Leonard Alan R St. Saviour 1d 93 R = Raymund - mmn Williams
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Yes Carole, a direct ancestor in family.
(just found) James Henry Holmes b Scutari, Asia Minor... 13th Aug 1855... service number 83790.
National Archives
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How does Walter Charles Lancelot morph into Francis H N (1891) and further morph into Richard Charles ::). The only thing that's consistent is his surname. The man's a nightmare and no wonder you have had problems finding him
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Ah - he doesn't morph into Francis - so where is he in 1891??
Births September qtr 1881
Holmes Francis Henry N Tendring 4a 389
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How would I find if Rhoda is the mother of Richard C Holmes / Lucy (nee Cooper)
The marriage cert will only give his fathers name and occupation
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Father James Henry Holmes died 30th Sept 1896 and probate was granted to Thomas Joseph Kearns Lieutenant and riding master of the army service corp and Charles Frederick Robert Masters commercial clerk. Effects just over £136
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
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Thanks Carole. Francis HN died 1896 aged 14yrs.
There's a possible James died in India of Hepititus at Senlee..
Also, I have the cert of 1912 for Richard Charles Holmes and Lucy Cooper
Her father Arthur Cooper is just as mysterious !!
I have just found marriage for Leonard.. 1915 Kate Louise Hill .. His father James Henry a Chief Steward RN desc..
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How awful - father and son died roughly 6months apart
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783493.msg6381865#msg6381865
So grateful to crisane for this one.. found James Henry ... still no 'Richard' tho.