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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: dorothyl on Thursday 30 November 17 11:45 GMT (UK)

Title: My grandad.
Post by: dorothyl on Thursday 30 November 17 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi
I don't know if I've  already asked  this question.  But if I have I do apologise.
I am  trying to find out where  my grandad was actually born.
I'm Abit confused.  On a reply from an email I received from the cemetery where my grandad is buried.  They say  he was 31  when he passed away.   So I thought  if that's true  he would have been born in 1914. He became a father in 1937 to my mum  and  he was in the army.  My mum said he was born the same day.month.and year as my dad.
27th of September 1910.
So what I'm thinking is. If my grandads mum didn't register him until 1914. They would have put it down as his birth year.  Unless  my mum got the year wrong. Which  I doubt. She was good on birthdays. 
But she was only  little when her dad passed away.  My mum was 8 going on 9 when  she lost her dad.
 I am  going to put down on here what the person at the cemetery  said in my email.
And what I wanted to know  this for is so I can apply  for  my grandads death certificate. Because of what he died of. Which I just can't remember. I know it wasn't  the big c.  He didn't smoke.  And also  I'm trying to find out where my grandad was born because I need  to get a copy of his birth certificate  so I can get his army record's.  I need  both  his certificates  for that. Plus  pay the amount for his records  from the army. 
I going to  try to remember  what I was told by  email.  And maybe  someone can help. As now I'm completely  stuck and confused.  Thank you again for your help
I really do need help with this.

Here is my email  reply. 
info for Alfred Evan

Age 31
Occupation Labourer
Address 58 Parry Street. Greenheys
there are two areas in Manchester that are known as greenheys
one is in the moss side area
the other is in Salford near to little Hulton
i can not confirm which one we are looking at

I hope  anyone  can understand it?

Thank you again for your help
Your's sincerely
Mrs Dorothy Lucas
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 30 November 17 11:49 GMT (UK)
Earlier post which mentions him
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783294.0
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: heywood on Thursday 30 November 17 11:56 GMT (UK)
Hello Dorothy,

You are best to stay on the same thread.

However, Rosie posted this on there

Is this his birth registration  :-\

Sep qtr 1914 
Alfred E Jones  mothers maiden name  Jones   
Chorlton reg district    8c   1401

Who did he marry & when

I might have missed this but did you get that certificate to check the details?

Heywood
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: dorothyl on Friday 01 December 17 13:17 GMT (UK)
Hi
I didn't  get his death or birth  certificate.  But I did get his marriage certificate. Apparently  he got  married age 19. So that would  make his birth year 1914.. according to  something I found  in ancestry search.  He was registered  in 1914. But born 4 year's  earlier. 
This is why I'm having trouble trying to find out where he was born. Because  of the year  and what  county. Wales  or England.

I hope I'm ok to say that?  I don't want  to get into trouble.
Anyway thank you.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 17 16:02 GMT (UK)
I have copied this from your other thread

Is this his birth registration  :-\

Sep qtr 1914 
Alfred E Jones  mothers maiden name  Jones   
Chorlton reg district    8c   1401


As there is so much confusion between 1910 and 1914 dates, it would be worth getting this certificate. You can order a copy online through the GRO site for £6.

Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: groom on Friday 01 December 17 16:26 GMT (UK)
Quote
So what I'm thinking is. If my grandads mum didn't register him until 1914. They would have put it down as his birth year.

Why wouldn't she register him until he was 4 years old? I think from all the information you have - the birth Rosie gave you, date on his marriage certificate and age on death, it is more probably that he was born 1914. It is more likely that your mother remembered the day and month of his birth but has become confused about the year. We all know from experience just how family stories can be wrong but contain some element of the truth.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: josey on Friday 01 December 17 16:49 GMT (UK)
As I understand it, if a birth is registered late then the registration index refers back to the correct birth year & quarter or vice versa. I see nothing like that on the original GRO index seen on freebmd.

ADDED: If the birth was in 1910, he would be on the 1911 census, whereas in reply #8 to the other thread, rosie found Frances on her own in Llandrillo Yn Rhos. 
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 01 December 17 17:54 GMT (UK)
So we have Alfred Evan Jones:

GRO says Alfred Evan Jones born September quarter 1914 - Chorlton Registration District - mmn Jones.

Lancashire BMD says that Alfred E Jones was born 1914 - Didsbury, which falls within the Chorlton Registration District.

There are NO registrations of Alfred E Jones being born 1910 in Wales.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 17 18:17 GMT (UK)
Again from the other thread - mother Frances in Rhos in 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VK-N4G

She may have returned to Manchester to give birth to her child.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: chempat on Friday 01 December 17 23:51 GMT (UK)
Just wondered if you had found them on 1939 register, to see what birth dates they claimed?
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 02 December 17 08:27 GMT (UK)
Also posted on your other  thread as they appear to both cover the same subject  :)

Hi Dorothy

I really think that you need to purchase this 1914 certificate which would confirm any information that your mother has told you  ;)
ALFRED EVAN JONES
1914  September Quarter
CHORLTON reg dist
Volume 08C  Page 1401   

As you know who his mother was so you would know if you had the wrong certificate.  This really is the only way to sort out this problem as to when and where he was born.

Rosie
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: dorothyl on Saturday 02 December 17 08:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you
I will try that.  I just don't want to get the wrong one.
It's great advice  thank you.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 02 December 17 09:01 GMT (UK)
We appear to have conflicting information:

Dorothy says that Alfred Evan was born 27 September 1910 in Wales.
FreeBMD/GRO shows a birth registration for Alfred Evan in September quarter 1914 - Manchester

Findagrave shows an entry for Alfred Evan in Southern Cemetery - born 27 September 1910, died 9 August 1946
FreeBMD shows a death registration in September quarter 1946 - Manchester Registration District aged 31 and this is confirmed on the GRO website as Alfred Evan Jones aged 31

If Alfred Evan was born in 1910 then he would be more than 31 years old when he died in 1946.


I have posted this on the other thread as well
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 December 17 10:27 GMT (UK)
Re the entry on Find a Grave, there is no photo of a headstone, so we don’t know exactly what it says. It depends whether his birth was entered from the cemetery records or whether it was added to the site by a relative doesn’t it? All the paper evidence adds up to a 1914 birth, but it’s very odd.
Title: Re: My grandad.
Post by: dorothyl on Tuesday 10 April 18 07:07 BST (UK)
Thanks for the link on my great gran Frances Jones.  I couldn't find it.amongst my other  replies

Thank you to who ever found it. Brilliant. 😊

Dorothy