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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: Dirtypaw on Thursday 30 November 17 11:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello one and all....trying to find proof of birth GIBRALTER 1836 for ELLEN LAURA BALLANTYNE as stated per marriage cert to CHARLES EDWARD PUGH 1857..her parents on marriage cert are Capt JOHN BALLANTYNE royal navy wife ELLEN BALLANTYNE nee MOODY... would adoption records be kept for this region and era? Thanks in advance ELLENS other married name was ST CLAIR......Craig
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Adoption as we understand it today did not legally come into force in England until 1927 - Gibralter being an overseas territory may have been later.
It is extremely unlikely that any records of any adoption from your date exist unless the adoption was organised by an agency such as the Church.
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There was an Adoption Act in Gibraltar in 1951?
Suggesting that legal adoption started in that year?
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Why do you think that she was adopted?
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There is only one John Ballantyne in the Navy Lists in the 1830's.
Born 1775 - here's a summary of his career:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Naval_Biographical_Dictionary/Ballantyne,_John
https://goo.gl/21V2kn
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John Ballantyne, retired RN Commander, appears on the Scottish censuses for 1841, 1851 and 1861 at Anstruther Easter in Fife. His
wife sister Helen is with him in 1841 and 1851. He was unmarried. No wife or children.
Scotlands People has an 1863 "Inventory; Disposition and Deed of Settlement" for his estate. Might be worth checking for any mention of Ellen.
Ballantyne: At Anstruther, on the 4th inst., John Ballantyne, Esq., commander R.N., in the 87th year of his age (Dunfermline Press 11 March 1863)
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Could someone please look at this to see Fathers Occp?
Name: Agnes Ballantine
Birth 12 Dec 1839, Woolwich, Kent, England
Father: John Ballantine
Mother: Ellen Ballantine
Baptism 16 Feb 1840
Baptism Place: Woolwich, Kent, England
Denomination: Scots Church the
Is it Gunner ? Royal Artillary, 3 Battalion?
Whoohoo ;D
BALLANTYNE, AGNES, Mothers mn MOODY***
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in GREENWICH UNION Volume 05 Page 230
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1851 Census
Woolwich, Kent
John Ballantyne, 45, Head, Mar, Labourer in Dockyard, born Scotland
Ellen Ballantyne, 41, Wife, Mar, born Scotland
ELLEN Ballantyne, 14, Daug, born Woolwich, Kent
Agnes Ballantyne, 12, Daug, born Woolwich
Arrival Australia;
Miss E Ballantyne, Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date: 24 Oct 1854
Vessel Name: Countess Of Seafield
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s it Gunner ? Royal Artillary, 3 Battalion?
Gunner & Driver in the Royal Artillery 3rd battalion
Looks like you've cracked it Trish!
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He was discharged from the Royal Artillery in 1848 after 22 years service including 2 years in Gibraltar and 8 years in Newfoundland.
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Thanks ShaunJ :)
FreeREG has a possible Marriage for Agnes 07 Aug 1865 Deptford, Kent to John LOCKE
(will research that later)
EDIT cant find anything to confirm this Marriage.
Marriage;
Familysearch.Org;
11 February 1825, St Cuthberts Blotter, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
John BALLANTINE to Helen MUDIE
Helens Fathers name JOHN Mudie
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The army pension records show that John Ballantyne (discharged from Royal Artillery in 1848) died in Glasgow on 8 June 1854. The date tallies with a burial record for John Ballantyne aged 47 in Govan.
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The Countess of Seafield departed from London on 20 June 1854. The Ballantynes on board were:
Mrs Ballantyne
Miss Ballantyne
Miss E Ballantyne
Mr J Ballantyne
Written in that order so "Mr J" is presumably a child
Added: Sydney newspapers confirm it was " Mrs Ballantyne and 3 children"
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Good finds, but doesn't answer why the OP thinks she was adopted in Gibralter ;D
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Yes true.
She may have been born in Gibraltar though and pob in 1851 is incorrect.
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A Tree has another Daug born c 1825, Janet Ballantyne who married 01 sept 1847 Woolwich, Kent, to William PARKER.
They have no other info on John/Ellen other than the 1851 Census.
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Another possibility from passenger lists:
Ellen Ballantyne arrived Adelaide on the barque Coromandel from Southampton, January 1855
https://goo.gl/Si99GQ
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Thanks all far your input thus far find att marriage cert that started this all i guess the adoption option was clutching at straws without justification a bad habit...it may be possible that as an actress as stated on mc she may gilding the lily as was her new husband we think..chemist/actor...a lot to absorb
thanks again love your work Craig ..
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I still don't understand about the adoption? ???
The marriage certificate clearly states she was a widow, from 10th June 1855.
So her first husband was a Mr. St. Clair.
And she married before 10th June 1855
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Is it a Victorian M/C?
Have you looked for a Marriage in Victoria 1851-1855 for Ellen?
EDIT have found it in Victoria now. Checked for a St Clair Marriage/Death also in Victoria.
Well whatever the outcome the Parents I found I am sure are hers.
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Sorry for confusing with the heading adoption without proof ...find atttached passenger list for the COUNTESS OF SEAFIELD of interest ..a cargo ship ...military passengers ..a child written as child ..not MR...lucky they took this trip ...ran aground china sea next year 1855...
Trish the mc is Victorian... thanks heaps
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a child written as child ..not MR...
It definitely says "Mr" - compare it with the "Mr" in Mr Dudgeon, Mr W McCutcheon and Mr Warner a few lines above.
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Although it says Mrs BALLANTINE and 3 children in news paper what is convention for the use of child mr master in the era ...?
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Although it says Mrs BALLANTINE and 3 children in news paper what is convention for the use of child mr master in the era ...?
I don't disagree that the two sources (as I have previously recorded) point to it being a child - I'm just responding to your point that it's "a child written as child" which clearly is not the case.
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If a person is listed on ships documents as being MR could it be that they are over 12 years of age paying an adult fare but still a child ??...just trying to get it straight ..thanks Craig
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I don't think you can imply anything from the use of "Mr"?
Which could quite possibly have been short for "Master" anyway!
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so.. what happened to Ellen senior ? What happened to Agnes? Who was "Mr J"? Who was Mr "St Clair" who died 10 June 1855 ?
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Shaunj glad your still interested ..i have i think AGNES BALLANTYNE married HENDERSON then IVERSON died at ST ARNAUD VIC AUST 1897 per VICBDM INDEX ....the death 10 JUN 1855 ref to ST CLARE scibbled on prev mc ..hard to see its reported to be ELLENS prev spouse not yet confirmed...ELLEN senior may have followed daughters to VIC more looking i guess ...seeya
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Thanks everyone for input ...it appears that statement on mc ...widowed to ST CLAIR 1854 and birth of child to ST CLAIR 1857 per bdm vic index... same year as marriage to PUGH 1857 ...is bending the truth???.....any thoughts ...thanks Craig