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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sue 123 on Friday 01 December 17 13:44 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I'm looking for information on my 3rd great grandmother Sarah Lewis.
She married Philip Shepherd on 30/3/1834 at St Nicks Church Liverpool and they had a few children, William, John, Philip, James & Dorothy.
I thought that her parents were Edward Lewis and Mary Dyson just from a search on another website as I found a baptism record for 1807. However due to the names of her children I wonder if it is William Lewis and Catherine Hughes who had a daughter in 1805? In fact there is one other Sarah Lewis born to John Lewis and Nancy Kindick born in 1808 in Liverpool?
Any suggestions as to how I can find out by online checks or will it help if I ordered all 3 birth certs from Liverpool?
Thanks
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Sue --just a quick reply. Civil Registration only began in England and Wales on 1 July 1837. Hence no birth, marriage or death certificates are available prior to that date.
We are dependant on Parish Registers for events occurring prior to 1 July 1837.
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Do you have the record images for these three baptisms? The images are likely available to view free on Family Search, you can't access them through the search, only transcripts can be accessed by search. We can probably provide links to these baptism images on Family Search if you want them. Unfortunately that far back there is less information in records. One way to establish relationships is to look at any wills for these families.
Full transcripts are available for many Liverpool churches on Lancs OPC:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/index.html
Blue
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Just looking at children baptised in Liverpool with parents, Philip and Sarah Shepherd -- this couple MAY have had a daughter, Ann, baptised 10 Feb 1835 at St Peters Church (if it's the same Philip and Sarah Shepherd.)
If it is the correct couple it means the first born daughter would have been named Ann.
Might be worth checking if a baby died named Ann Shepherd. (They also seem to have had a James, who was baptised privately so not expected to survive).
Also have you found Philip's baptism and his parents' names? That could possibly identify which of Philip and Sarah's children MAY have been named after HIS parents.
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An 8 month old Ann Shepherd, child of Philip and Sarah was buried in Low Hill Cemetery, Everton on 14 Sept 1835.
You may therefore wish to explore the John and Nancy as being possible parents of Sarah, Nancy sometimes being a nickname for Ann.
Check out other children born to that couple also = potential siblings of Sarah, just to see if any more clues are revealed.
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Who were the witnesses at the wedding? I can only view a transcription and witnesses are not listed
Hopefully a family member was a witness and that can help decide who her parents are.
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The death of Sarah is recorded 1874 age 68 giving her a birth year of 1806, or 1805 depending when her birthday was.
New GRO index J quarter Vol 08B page 202, West Derby and Toxteth Park registration.
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Amondg --- unfortunately the filmed copies of St Nicholas which I have access to have a gap covering 1834, when Philip and Sarah married (typical)!)
I see that Philip gives a birth place of Ulverston on the 1851 census. Can't find a baptism in Ulverston itself - but there is one at Dalton in Furness in 1810 abode 'Billing Coat'.
There is a 'Billincoat Charity' in Dalton -- and if the Philip baptised in 1810 at Dalton is the correct one -- then unfortunately HIS parents were JOHN and ANN!
Also he had a sister DOROTHY! (So I rather suspect he's the correct Philip -- but it puts a questionmark over Sarah's parents being John and Nancy. It's always possible though -- AND it would have been very handy - Philip and Sarah would definitely have had the names of a son and daughter sorted if BOTH their parents had the same 2 names!!
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1841 census William Street Liverpool recorded as SHEPPARD
Phillip Sheppard 30 labourer
Sarah 30
John 2
William 4
Son John would have been born circa 1839 and baptized with his younger brother Phillip on the same day 5 September 1842.
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Pennines, just saw your reply, ponder this.
First child Ann--his mother
second child William -her father
third child John- his father
fourth child Phillip - named for his father
fifth child James - not sure where this fits
Dorothy - his sister
They didn't make it easy.
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Yes - but the first son is often named after the father's father and the first daughter after the mother's mother.
It's not cast in stone of course and heaven only knows what happened if the family had quarrelled. Also have you noticed that, at that time, Philip and Sarah lived in William Street? Not that I am suggesting they named their child after the street - but who knows!
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Amondg --- unfortunately the filmed copies of St Nicholas which I have access to have a gap covering 1834, when Philip and Sarah married (typical)!)
I see that Philip gives a birth place of Ulverston on the 1851 census. Can't find a baptism in Ulverston itself - but there is one at Dalton in Furness in 1810 abode 'Billing Coat'.
There is a 'Billincoat Charity' in Dalton -- and if the Philip baptised in 1810 at Dalton is the correct one -- then unfortunately HIS parents were JOHN and ANN!
Also he had a sister DOROTHY! (So I rather suspect he's the correct Philip -- but it puts a questionmark over Sarah's parents being John and Nancy. It's always possible though -- AND it would have been very handy - Philip and Sarah would definitely have had the names of a son and daughter sorted if BOTH their parents had the same 2 names!!
Marriage image here:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96J-WDKW?cat=261432
Blue
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Blue you are a star! Thank you.
So witnesses were Catherine Lewis and John Wintrup(?). Wonder if Catherine was a sister, or maybe her mother? Haven't checked that yet -- original poster hasn't yet responded so I am not sure if they are already aware of anything that we may have said - and we are searching in vain.
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Hi All,
I'm looking for information on my 3rd great grandmother Sarah Lewis.
She married Philip Shepherd on 30/3/1834 at St Nicks Church Liverpool and they had a few children, William, John, Philip, James & Dorothy.
I thought that her parents were Edward Lewis and Mary Dyson just from a search on another website as I found a baptism record for 1807. However due to the names of her children I wonder if it is William Lewis and Catherine Hughes who had a daughter in 1805? In fact there is one other Sarah Lewis born to John Lewis and Nancy Kindick born in 1808 in Liverpool?
Any suggestions as to how I can find out by online checks or will it help if I ordered all 3 birth certs from Liverpool?
Thanks
Here are the three possible baptisms in full:-
Baptism: 10 Nov 1805 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancs.
Sarah Lewis - Daughter of William Lewis & Catharine (formerly Hughes), His Wife
Born: 26 Aug 1805
Abode: Gascoyne St.
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Baptisms 1805, Entry 1288
Source: LDS Film 1068889
Baptism: 3 Jan 1808 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sarah Lewis - Daughter of Edward Lewis & Mary (formerly Dyson)), His Wife
Born: 16 Dec
Abode: Cook Street
Occupation: Coachman
Register: Baptisms 1808, Page 339, Entry 23
Source: LDS Film 93833
Baptism: 18 Sep 1808 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sarah Lewis - Daughter of John Lewis & Nancy (formerly Kendrick)), His Wife
Born: 4 Jul
Abode: Crosbie Street
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1808, Page 362, Entry 1222
Source: LDS Film 93833
Blue
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Two Catherines here, wife of William Lewis and their daughter born in 1810:-
Baptism: 29 Aug 1810 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Catharine Lewis - Daughter of William Lewis & Catharine (formerly Hughes)
Born: 26 Apr 1810
Abode: Vernon St
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Baptisms 1810 - 1812, Page 273, Entry 36
Source: LDS Film 1656377
I think this might be the right baptism:-
Baptism: 10 Nov 1805 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancs.
Sarah Lewis - Daughter of William Lewis & Catharine (formerly Hughes), His Wife
Born: 26 Aug 1805
Abode: Gascoyne St.
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Baptisms 1805, Entry 1288
Source: LDS Film 1068889
Blue
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Hi,
Sorry I didnt reply but was caught up in other stuff but certainly all of your input is indeed so helpful.
I did have Philip Shepherd's details of his parents but as pointed out by Blue 70 I was working on 3 Sarahs born about 1806.
In view of all your info I am going to go with William & Catherine as being Sarah's parents as the names seem to fit.
Thank you all so much as I am off to do more research ! ;)