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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mrsboop on Thursday 07 December 17 10:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Thursday 07 December 17 10:16 GMT (UK)
 :)
Hi, I am trying to find out about my maternal grandmothers family. My nan Annie Spink born 1916 in Walsall, West Midlands. Her mother was nee Hooper but that is all I know about my nan's family above apart from her dad being a Spink. I have researched but not sure if I am on the right route, the only marriage for Spink/Hooper was Harry Spink and Annie Hooper in 1916 for the walsall area, which I am presuming as that was where my nan was born. My nan had a brother called Ernie and Jackie but again Ernie could be a middle name? and Jackie could be Jack/John etc. My nan and Ernie were in the express and star newspaper after reuniting after being apart for years to find that they only lived a few miles apart in the 1990's?. My nan married a William Banks and they had 8 children, Shirley, Madge, Robert, James,Patricia,June,Christine and Kieth. After a couple of years of looking I am no closer to find my nan's family history. If anyone could help I would be extremely grateful.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 07 December 17 10:31 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D

Your first step should be to confirm her father's name by looking at either the Marriage Certificate or her Birth Certificate.
If you don't have these, then you can purchase a copy through the GRO.

FreeBMD is showing a birth in 1919 for Alfred E Spink - could be Ernie?
Also a John T Spink in 1923 - could be Jackie?

Annie Spink married William Banks in September qtr 1936, Walsall Registration District.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 07 December 17 10:50 GMT (UK)
1901 census for Harry Spink:

Gortons Yard, Walsall
Spink, Harry  Head  M  35  Hame Forger  b Walsall
Spink, Sarah  Wife  F  33  b Walsall
Spink, Frank  Son  M  18  Brass Caster  b Walsall
Spink, Harry  Son  M  14  Key Driller  b Walsall

Looks as though he is in the Military in 1911?
Based in Gibraltar.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 07 December 17 11:22 GMT (UK)
There are a total of 8 children to this couple from 1916-1933 including twins.
I can't see an appropriate death for Harry 1933-38, possibly divorced.
It seems to be the right parents but as has been said conformation from her marriage cert. is the next step.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Thursday 07 December 17 13:30 GMT (UK)
Thank you, cant see how to reply to you  individually.

KGarrad-Yes sorry it was 1936 they got married, my mistake. Yes I will have a look at getting their marriage certificate.

Jim1- could you possibly give me the 8 names of the children, as I only know to Annie, Ernie and Jackie, thats very interesting, thank you
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 07 December 17 14:27 GMT (UK)
I've sent you a pm.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 07 December 17 14:36 GMT (UK)
The marriage certificate is a must - according to trees on Ancestry the Harry bc.1887, son of Harry and Sarah (as detailed on 1901 census posting) was killed in action 29/7/1916 France??

Annette
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 07 December 17 15:00 GMT (UK)
Can't see another Harry Spink born Staffs.
There's a Harold b. 1893 Cannock.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Thursday 07 December 17 16:03 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your contributions,

This is what I have so far, but not 100%, I have ordered their marriage certificate, thank you.

harry spink 1898 married Annie hooper 1898 in Walsall.

Their children Annie 1916 my nan =100%
                     Alfred E 1919 which could be Ernie but i think this one was married but I dont think
                                          the Ernie that I am looking for ever married but again not 100%
                     Mary M 1921-1922, so she died young, maybe this is why no one mentioned it.
                     John T  1923- which could be Jackie
                     George 1930-1930, again died young.
                     Joseph 1930, george's twin but cant find a death certificate. update can see a death certificate for Dec 1992 in Chichester, West Sussex, again not 100%
                     Lily 1933-1933 again never mentioned. update died at birth
My mom thought there were only 3 children, my nan never talked about her family so my mom hardly knows anything and I really want to help her.

It seems funny to me that My nan Annie had my mom in 1936 and yet her mom had a child in 1933 but my mom knows nothing about them only the two brothers.

I'm going to carry searching for the children and see where I get until the certificate comes and I know Hoopers first name, sort of hoping it is Annie as things seem to fit together, she called her first daughter(my nan) Annie too.

Thank you to all, I really appreciate you helping me.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 07 December 17 16:11 GMT (UK)
How do you know Harry was born in 1898 ?
Something to put on the back burner until you get the cert. Harold b.1893 had parents Joseph & Mary nee Richards.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Thursday 07 December 17 16:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Jim,

Just checking Ancestry, I searched for Spink/Hooper marriage for around the time my nan was born 1916 in walsall. The only search that came up was a harry spink and Annie Hooper for 1916. I then just took 18 years off to search for his birth but only came up with

just checked Ancestry

just realised i got a James and Sarah spink for 1889, bugger, Im confusing myself now.

so i have got a the above marriage but not their births back to searching
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 07 December 17 16:55 GMT (UK)
I would discard (for now) what you have found & wait for the cert. & start again.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Thursday 26 April 18 14:44 BST (UK)
Hi,  i have my nans birth certificate now. Annie Spink born 18.11.1916, father;Harry spink, Hame? forger, Mother; Annie Spink formerly Hooper, birth stated 22 Dudley St, Walsall.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 26 April 18 15:49 BST (UK)
There's something not quite right here. As Annette said earlier it appears this Harry Spink died in 1916.
All of the information indicates it's the right Harry.
He attested in the 1st. Batt. S.Staffs. Regt. towards the end of 1905 when he would have been 18 which was the minimum age.
In 1911 with the 1st. Batt. aged 23.BP Walsall Staffs.
War Gratuities names his father also Harry.
Needs looking into.



Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 26 April 18 18:18 BST (UK)
Back in December you said you had ordered the marriage certificate of Harry Spink and Annie Hooper - did you do this?  If so, what information is on the marriage certificate?

It's the marriage information that is important here.

Annette
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 26 April 18 18:23 BST (UK)
Harry Spink who married Annie Hooper wed in Sept. Q 1916. Harry Spink who died lost his life July 1916.
I wonder if one of the brothers is now calling himself Harry.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 26 April 18 19:29 BST (UK)
Harry Spink who married Annie Hooper wed in Sept. Q 1916. Harry Spink who died lost his life July 1916.
I wonder if one of the brothers is now calling himself Harry.

I doubt that, Jim.

At this moment in time we don't know how old/where Harry Spink and Annie Hooper were born.  No Annie Hooper born in Walsall.   This is why the information on their marriage certificate is crucial in identifying both of them.

Annette

Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 26 April 18 19:52 BST (UK)
I would agree, the marriage cert. is a must have.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Friday 27 April 18 19:05 BST (UK)
Thank you for all your comments, i just got my nans wedding certificate which proves she was a Hooper. Then I have just got my nan and grandads wedding certificate. it states dad is Harry Spink and mom Annie spink formely Hooper. it has Harrys occupation as a Hame forger and born in 22 dudley st Walsall on the 18 November 1916. It was her mom who registered her.

so next I'm going to get Harry and Annie Spinks Wedding certificate the last one came in a couple days so i can update in a few days.

I have births on ancestry like i say cant be absolutely sure yet.Harry1888 in walsall and Annie 1893 west bromwich and there marriage is;
Annie Hooper
Date of Registration   1916 - Jul-Aug-Sep[1916]
Registration district   Walsall
Inferred County   Staffordshire
Spouse   Harry Spink
Volume Number   6b
Page number   1171
Hooper, Spink - 6b 1171

i just have to get the certificates to prove its them

i really appreciate the help
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Saturday 05 May 18 20:17 BST (UK)
Hi, I finally have my great grandmothers and grandfathers marriage certificate, this info is as follows,
Harry Spink and Annie Hooper married on 25th september 1916, harry age 32 and Annie aged 27, harry bachelor and Annie spinster, Harry was a Hame forger and they both lived at 22 Dudley st, walsall, Harrys father was also called Harry Spink Deceased at the time of marriage was also a Hame forger, Annies father I think is William Hooper and his job was waggomer/baggomer? they were married in I think its says St Matthews church, in walsall.

This cant be the Harry i was thinking of as he died in the war in July 1916 but there wedding was september so ive got to have the wrong one
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 06 May 18 13:31 BST (UK)
I can't see a Harry Spink death pre 1916. There is a Henry dying in Walsall 1891 aged 39. He also lived in Dudley St. His widow & family carried on living in Dudley St. up to 1911 with son Edward at no. 26.
Unfortunately I can't place Harry b. 1884 in this family. Edward was born 1883 Walsall.
No help is it.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Sunday 06 May 18 20:58 BST (UK)
Thanks for replying Jim,
I have been through the census books and for dudley st this is what i found.

The meeting yard back of dudley st;
number 3 Bk Mr Sprink, 3 males, 2 females

Dudley St
number 26 Mr spink, 1 male, 1 female.

The only other thing i can think of is visiting our local history centre or going to St Matthews church where they were married as I live local. although i dont know what im really looking for.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 06 May 18 23:44 BST (UK)
Quote
Dudley St
number 26 Mr spink, 1 male, 1 female.
Edward & sister Maria.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Monday 14 May 18 09:33 BST (UK)
ok, new info

according to my mom harry spink who married Annie hooper in 1916 was married before? it has bachelor on the wedding certificate.

my mom said harry was alot older than Annie hooper i cant work out on their wedding cert if harry is 32 or 52.

harry and his first wife definitely had 2 children, girl and boy could have been more. harry and first wife had a son called Joe( this is important).

so i dont know what happened to first wife but then Harry married Annie Hooper my great great grandmother.

Here is the skeleton in the closet and possibly why it was not talked about by my grandmother as she was probably ashamed of her mother. it seems that Annie hooper then went out with Harrys son Joe, who would have been her stepson.

i have been looking and i think we have mentioned this before but the only thing i can find on ancestry for the 1901 census is
harry spink aged 35 Hame forger
Sarah spink aged 33
frank spink aged 18 brass caster
harry spink aged 14 key driller
susan spink aged 10
nellie spink aged 9
JOSEPH SPINK AGED 5
george spink aged 2

they lived at 14 Gortons Yard, Walsall.

The only thing im struggling with is the years
so if it is this harry i am trying to find he would have been born around 1866, so for him to marry Annie in 1916 he would have been 40 not the 32 or 52?

has anyone got any ideas
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Monday 14 May 18 11:06 BST (UK)
Gets more curious by the minute doesn't it.
Firstly if Harry Snr. was 35 in 1901 he would have been 50 in 1916 not 40.
Secondly if Sarah was 33 in 1901 she can't be the mother of Harry Jnr. or Frank.
GRO says Green is the mmn for all of the children.
Henry Spink married Sarah Green 1880 Walsall.
In 1891 Harry Snr. is calling himself James aged 30 & Sarah is 25. Still in Gorton's Yard.
In 1881 living in Dudley St. Calling himself Henry aged 20. Sarah is 18.
Brother Thomas aged 14 is living with them.
In 1871 Henry is 12. his father is George Spink so not the Harry/Henry that married Annie Hooper.
As Harry & Sarah had a son Harry b. 1887 is it possible he married Annie or is he the one who died in WW1.
There seems to be too many Henry/Harry Spinks' around.
What I do in situations like this is construct mini trees of all the suspect families as this clarifies a lot of things.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Friday 15 June 18 13:59 BST (UK)
hi, this is so hard :)

1901 census for gortons yard states;
harry spink aged 35 hame forger
Sarah spink aged 33
frank sprink aged 18
harry spink aged 14 key driller- I believe this is the harry spink who died in the war in 1916
susan spink aged 10
nellie spink aged 9
JOSEPH spink aged 5- this Joe married and had 2 children, boy Joseph and Girl maybe Sarah.
George spink aged 2

(in 1911 census living at 13 dudley st.)

so it's Joseph's ( the one above born 1896?) son I am after. i believe he was born about 1925?, i know he was living in dudley st with Annie ( which one mother or daughter I am not sure about), i got in touch with someone who remembers Joe living their and joe was a couple of years older than him and he was born in 1928.

so if my mom remembers correctly, bits keep coming back to her. harry spink was married before and his wife had died, they had a son called Joe (1896), who in turn got married and had a son called Joe (1925) . it is this son who then went off with Annie. so basically she went off with her step grandson?
I am not sure if they went on to have kids or get married. I have been through the 1939 register but cant find them together.

i understand what you mean about them keep changing names, who think they fit but the name is not quite right, was this a regular thing for them to keep changing names :)

I am so grateful for all your help
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: mrsboop on Friday 15 June 18 14:02 BST (UK)
Sorry I was going to ask what the GRO was and how you found out that Sarah green was mom to all the kids, thanks
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Friday 15 June 18 16:21 BST (UK)
GRO:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
you can search back to 1837 births which gives mother's maiden name.
All of the children on the 1901 census had mmn Green.
Harry Spink married Sarah Green in 1880 so it's difficult to see how he could have been married before unless he married 2 women called Sarah Green.
In addition you seem to be saying that Harry Spink b.1887 "went off with" Annie Hooper your Greatgrandmother. Is this correct.
Joseph b.1896 was Harry's brother so Annie brother-in-law not stepson.
If I were you I would put the family stories on the back burner as it just gets too confusing.
I would prefer to rely on facts.
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jorose on Friday 15 June 18 17:03 BST (UK)
www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
 - there are several references in the Walsall newspapers for the Spinks, not the best references but they might add some colour!

Harry Spink, forger - drunk and disorderly in 1903
Harry Spink, hame forger - allowing his 7 year old son to beg in the streets in 1904 (Sarah Spink also mentioned)
Sarah Spink, of Gorton's Yard - theft in 1906
several records of a Harry Spink who was known to be a poacher, at addresses including Bott Lane (1907) and Dudley Street (1911) - in 1911 he's recorded as aged 52.

It looks like possibly Sarah Spink died in 1914, aged 43.

There's an interesting gap between the children of Annie in 1923 to 1930.
I can't find a death for "Harry Spink" but a "Harry Spinks" died in 1924 in Walsall, aged 62.
This would mean that the later children would have to be fathered by someone else...
Title: Re: Help with Spink family from Walsall
Post by: jim1 on Friday 15 June 18 17:13 BST (UK)
The problem is there are too many Harry Spinks'.
The one you mention is father of Harry Spink b.1887.
It's this Harry that married Annie Hooper in 1916.