RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: homeguard on Friday 08 December 17 20:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am looking for more information on Elias Evans. I have found the family on the 1891 census living at Llandefalle in a wagon and Elias being described as a Hawker, with his wife Isabella aged 49 born Oswestry .There were 8 children living with the parents. For the daughter Jane the 1891 census gives the age as 10 born Shrewsbury so maybe in 1881 the family may been in the Shrewsbury area ? Any help would be appreciated, many thanks.
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1891 census. Seems to give shropshire as birthplace for jane.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TFZ-YT2
1901 for isabella and younger kids?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQH-YVN
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Just wondering if you have any info on the Roberts family who married into the Evans family i.e. Isabella Roberts who married Elias senior. I believe she is the sister of my great grandfather William Roberts a cutler, he had a daughter by the name of Ellen Roberts born c1900 Whitchurch Shropshire, I believe Ellen could be my grandmother. Also I believe when William died his then wife Mercy (Ellen's mother) began a relationship with William Evans son of Elias and Isabella, they went on to have a child by the name of Alfred. I know this is a long shot but like you I'm completely stuck!!!!
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Might this be the Roberts family in 1861 Wales Montgomeryshire Newtown
Robert Roberts 40 pedlar
Jane wife 40 pedlars wife
William son 16 pedlar
Isabella daughter 14
All born Oswestry
6 more children
George 11
Samuel 8
Robert 8
Arthur 6
John 4
Rebecca 10 months
Also when did Elisa Evans and Isabella marry - could it have been as late as 1919?
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Is this the right Ellen Roberts born c1900 Whitchurch?
1901 census
William Roberts 50 born Oswestry cutler
Elizabeth 30 wife born Holyhead
Ellen daughter 5 months born Whitchurch
Mothers name Reaver ?
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Yes I believe so - not sure about Reaver though, is this Elizabeth's mother? I would love to know more info on Ellen if poss
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Ellen’s mother (possibly)
I looked up a birth registration for Ellen Roberts and found one Dec quarter 1900 in Whitchurch with mothers maiden name as Reaver.
You believed Ellen’s mother was called Mercy not Elizabeth? So perhaps this isn’t the right birth.
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I think we are on the right track, well done re finding maiden name of Reaver re Elizabeth, I still can't find it. I wonder if Elizabeth used the name Mercy as a preference, a lot of my family did change their Christian names. I guess the next challenge is to find out about the Reaver family and what happened to Ellen as I can't find her on the 1911 census.
Your input is gratefully received as very difficult tracking these people down!!!
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Also I believe when William died his then wife Mercy (Ellen's mother) began a relationship with William Evans son of Elias and Isabella, they went on to have a child by the name of Alfred.
When did William die and when was Alfred born?
If we can find a birth for Alfred Evans with mothers maiden name Reaver it could prove something.
Can't see a marriage for Elizabeth Reaver to William Roberts.
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William Roberts died 1910 Whitchurch Shrops
Alfred Evans born 1913 Birkenhead Cheshire mother Roberts (previous name before Evans) this is the only one I can find that fits and very close to Shropshire
I found a marriage for a William Roberts and Elizabeth Riva (as opposed to Reaver) 1896 Whitchurch Shrops
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Thanks for that info. I thought Reaver was an odd name as it didn't seem to show up anywhere.
Will have a look for Riva instead.
If it was the same lady then the birth for Alfred should show Riva for the maiden name so is going to take a bit of untangling!
Where did the name Mercy come from do you know?
You might need to get some birth certificates to be certain who begat who.
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At the risk of tangling more there is this Riva family with a daughter Mercy
1891 - all born Wales but living in Cheshire
Charles E Riva 49
Ellen 49
William 22
John 19
Edwin 18
Mercy 15 **
Maggie 12
** 1881 census has birthplace Holyhead
Birth registration for Mercy Sep 1876 Anglesey has mothers maiden name Janes
The ages don't quite match up do they for Mercy and Elizabeth (who is 30 in 1901) if they were the same person but the name Mercy seems to disappear after 1891 so :-\
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In theory then if William Roberts died 1910 Elizabeth and Ellen should be alone somewhere in 1911.
Have you found William Evans in 1911 to see if they were already together? I know you said couldn't find Ellen and neither can I but they might be in the same area.
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Found another Roberts/Riva birth
William Charles Roberts
Mar 1897 Whitchurch
Possible death Dec 1897 age 0
William Charles Henry Roberts
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Hi, thanks for info - I haven't found William, Ellen or Mercy on 1911 census will carry on looking, I think also that the Birth registration for Mercy Sep 1876 Anglesey has mothers maiden name Janes should read Jones, who knows!!! Really tough and appreciate you helping too
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Yes I think you're spot on there, checked the other childrens births and they all have Jones.
Marriage Sep 1860 Anglesey
Charles Riva
Ellen Jones
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Also I believe when William died his then wife Mercy (Ellen's mother) began a relationship with William Evans son of Elias and Isabella, they went on to have a child by the name of Alfred.
When did William die and when was Alfred born?
If we can find a birth for Alfred Evans with mothers maiden name Reaver it could prove something.
Can't see a marriage for Elizabeth Reaver to William Roberts.
I am really interested in this family Elizabeth or Mercy & William Roberts were my great grandparents & Ellen my grandmother who I'm afraid I know little about.
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The Roberts family is of great interest to me, my great grandparents were william & Elizabeth (mercy) Roberts & Ellen their daughter was my grandmother. When William died Mercy did go off with williams nephew & they had a son Alfred Evans.
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Hi Dee, really interested in your post as trying to find out more about Ellen Roberts who is my grandmother, the info I have is that Ellen went on to marry Thomas Jones a hawker and cutler, they had three daughters one of which is my mother Elizabeth, now sadly passed away. Ellen left Thomas not sure the reason why and went on to marry an Edward Ayres and they had a daughter known as Phoebe Ayres, have we a shared grandmother or am I on the completely wrong track!!!
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Hi, I am looking for more information on Elias Evans. I have found the family on the 1891 census living at Llandefalle in a wagon and Elias being described as a Hawker, with his wife Isabella aged 49 born Oswestry .There were 8 children living with the parents. For the daughter Jane the 1891 census gives the age as 10 born Shrewsbury so maybe in 1881 the family may been in the Shrewsbury area ? Any help would be appreciated, many thanks.
In 1897 they were in Whitchurch, Salop, Shropshire
"Isabella Evans, hawker, Whitchurch, Salop, was charged by P.C. Griffiths with allowing four horses to stray on the highway. Complainant aaid that about 12.30 on the morning of March 26th, when on duty on the Aberayron road, he saw four horses grazing. They were defendant's animals. Elias Evans said the horses were tied to the van at night"
(The Aberystwith Observer, 8th April 1897)
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Hi Richard, I want to get exited but until I hear more I must keep calm, if we are talking of the same Ellen Roberts then it would mean we share a grandmother, I have been searching for so many years & have just hit brick walls.
Have you evidence of a marriage certificate for Ellen & Thomas Jones or Edward Ayres as if it states her parents to be William Roberts & Mercy Roberts then we are talking of the same person, until I know that I wont waffle on as mine is rather a sad story, I have only just joined this site by purely just putting a name in the search box one I've done so many times. I have a lot of info on the Roberts family but have so so wished to know about Ellen.
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Hi Dee, my Ellen Roberts married Thomas Jones a hawker/cutller in 1925 in St Austell Cornwall and on her marriage certificate her father is named as William Roberts occupation cutler deceased, it actually does not have her mother's name on it. I haven't applied for the marriage certificate for Ellen and Edward Ayres as I know that they were together, they married 1932 Aldershot Hampshire, the reason that I know this as I have information from the archives of Nazareth House as Ellen had placed two of the girls (one of them my mother) into care in Nazareth House Portsmouth in Aug 1932 just before she married Edward Ayres, she was a flower seller in Portsmouth and was picked up by the police as she was homeless with the two girls, hence the girls being put into care. The other daughter was placed in Cardiff Union workhouse in 1929 and then was was moved to Ely childrens home in 1930 and sadly passed away in the City Lodge hospital in 1933. Sadly my Ellen passed away 1939 Aldershot aged 40. Edward Ayres was a gypsy born in Farnham Surrey in 1900. Do you think we talking about the same Ellen? By the way my name is Veronica, Richard xii is a user name, take care and hope to hear from you soon.
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Hi Veronica, I so want your Ellen to be my Ellen, but I'm just not sure, its because of the area your talking of its such a long way from her roots of Shropshire, but the lifestyle is like my Ellen. I will check out some dates tomorrow in my mountain of paper work.
What I can tell you is my Ellen Roberts was born 11/11/1900 in Whitchurch Shropshire to Parents William & Mercy Roberts (I have also come across MERCY being named Elizabeth & Bessie) Mercy was a Riva before marriage. You know the part about the death of William & Mercy going off with William Evans & they had a son Alfred & they lived in the Market Drayton area of Shropshire I do know a bit about Alfred.
I can tell you my Ellen gave birth to my mother in the Burton on Trent workhouse in 1922 & named her Adeline Persal Roberts no fathers name..when she left the workhouse she had her baby with her even though she was of no fix abode.
In 1924 she gave birth to another daughter in the Wellington workhouse in Shropshire & named her Doris Mary Roberts no fathers name.
Ellen was a hawker, now in 1926 (I will check this) it was decided by the board of governors at the Whitchurch workhouse they would take over the welfare of the 2 little girls & that's where my story on Ellen ends.
There are a lot of areas in your story. I always hoped my Ellens life would get better & hoped she married & had more children in hope there would be grand children to tell me about her and possibly see a photo of her. I'm not sure where we go from here , I wish the experts would take on my story. It would be good to hear your thoughts, I'm Doreen by the way.
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Hi Doreen, yes it would be great if our grandmother Ellen matched up. The reason I latched onto the Ellen from Shropshire is that she is the only Ellen I could find born c1900 with a father who was a William Roberts with the occupation of a cutler and of gypsy heritage. If you find information relating to Ellen re 1926 and she is still in the Shropshire area then it's not my Ellen as she was at that time giving birth to my mother Elizabeth in Cornwall also the second sister Rose Jane was also born in Cornwall and the third sister Millicent was born in Cardiff. I did find it a bit puzzling though as to Elizabeth/Mercy Riva marrying a traveller as from what I can see the Rivas weren't of gypsy stock am I correct? However these things do happen and I concluded that it why she changed her name from Mercy to Elizabeth so the Riva family couldn't track her down, I know I shouldn't surmise as that is a dangerous route to go down! I only have the definite/factual information from 1925 (marriage to Thomas Jones) to Ellen's death in 1939 Aldershot with the name Ellen Ayres, but like you desperate to find out more about Ellen. Bye for now Veronica