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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: cline on Saturday 09 December 17 17:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi my gg grandfather was John O'Lone born Belfast 1842 he was QMS in the Royal Irish Rifles
he married Mary Spence in Tralee 1872 after overseas posting. Their children included 2 sons
killed in WW1 Capt. Walter Percy DCM and Capt. Robert James O'Lone MID.
Johns father was called Patrick O'lone lived in Belfast and was a shoemaker they were
presbyterians. I have tried to find any records for Patrick and his family but come up with
nothing, the Patricks i do find are wrong ages and catholics. I have traced my other relatives
Spence Dines Kennedy but Patrick O'Lone is proving to be a brick wall.
Any help would be appreciated :)
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Civil registration of births, deaths & Catholic marriages began 1864 (non-Catholic marriages from 1845) so earlier records may not be online or even exist.
Have you tried civil registration index (for a death if father died after 1864)? directories for Belfast?
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For reference-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Bog_Road/1220188
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newtownards_North/Loughriscouse/267528
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Just a snippet probably of no relevence,
Ros Davies County Down surname lists
Miss Gertrude Caroline O'Lone daughter of John O'Lone a soldier married Charles Trotter
14th Jan 1920 at Newtonards Presbyterian church there are a couple of other snippets that may be of interest to you
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Other than the marriage certificate what other documentation do you have that states Patrick is his father,and that they were Presbyterian,could John not have married out of his faith,I am not sure how or where the marriage licence details are held but they may give a little more detail
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Nice little cluster of Olone,in Omagh
29th March 1890
Ellen Olone
aged 70 years
widow of a shoemaker
cause of death old age
registered by her son James who was present when she died
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Both 1901 and 1911 census list O'Lone family as Presbyterian (links posted earlier). He's the 1872 marriage which list Mary Spence's residence as Belfast-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11311/8150629.pdf
Link to 1890 Ellen O'Lone death-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06106/4742751.pdf
Widow Eliza O'Lone in Reaghan townland-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Dunbreen/Reaghan/874302
James (shoemaker) & wife Lizzie there in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Dunbreen/Reaghan/1745784
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Article on Walter Percy O'Lone (http://barryniblock.co.uk/world-war-one-list-of-dead/names-listed-alphabetically-by-surname/obrien-to-oswald/olone-dcm-mid-walter-percy/) mentions father's military service, etc.
More family details here but looks as though you already know this information-
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/254384-captain-charles-henry-spence/
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Hi aghadowey and Radcliff thanks so much for showing an interest and helping me.
Yes alot off the stuff i already have, on Ros Davies site she has an Agnes O'lone daughter
of James O'lone marrying a William McKay in Knockbreda 18th April 1867 again presbyterian
so wondering could she be a cousin off my Johns?
Ros has given me all the imformation on the Omagh and Antrim O'loans but honestly cant see
them being related they all seem to be farmers etc. I am wondering if Johns father called himself
Patrick whilst in Tralee there was a very strong military background in the family so perhaps he was hiding something also a strong connection to Victoria Barracks so who knows?
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Ros has given me all the imformation on the Omagh and Antrim O'loans but honestly cant see them being related they all seem to be farmers etc. I am wondering if Johns father called himself
Patrick whilst in Tralee there was a very strong military background in the family so perhaps he was hiding something also a strong connection to Victoria Barracks so who knows?
Why do you think John's father was in Tralee?
Clearly not all the Omagh ones were farmers as demonstrated by what has been previously posted here.
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Ive searched all day sunday on the Groni site from the first records up to 1950s ,
all the street directories with no sucess . Theres only record of Agnes O'lones
wedding in Berry St. Presbyterian Church with no address of her home which should be listed.
I strongly believe they could possibly been in the army and living on camp and Patrick
had retired from army and was living in Tralee.
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Ive searched all day sunday on the Groni site from the first records up to 1950s ,
all the street directories with no sucess .
Entirely possibly they weren't listed in directories- not everyone would have been- and civil records may start too late so you can't really rule out Belfast as their origin just yet.
Theres only record of Agnes O'lones wedding in Berry St. Presbyterian Church with no address of her home which should be listed.
Does her residence not say 'Belfast'? it wasn't uncommon in those days for Belfast marriages to just list that as residence.
Just looking at Irish births in Family Search, I see that Agnes O'Lone and William McKay had quite a few children.
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Theres no mention of her or her father James in the Proni street directories from 1870 to 1874
until shes married, still no james? came across Anne and Martha O'lone in Ards again
presbyterians sisters or cousins the records arnt specific.
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Another possibility for Patrick to be in Tralee , who would off accompanied Mary Spence
down from Belfast quite a journey in those days especially for a young woman.
Looked Tralee records so mention of Patrick, theres a few Patrick O'lones who went to USA
so another possibility of no death record.
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Another possibility for Patrick to be in Tralee , who would off accompanied Mary Spence
down from Belfast quite a journey in those days especially for a young woman.
Looked Tralee records so mention of Patrick, theres a few Patrick O'lones who went to USA
so another possibility of no death record.
It's just as likely that
1) either John and Mary knew each other in Belfast & she travelled with someone/anyone to Tralee to get married where he was stationed, or
2) Mary went to Tralee as a servant of someone else in the army, with a friend or relative (possibly already married to someone in the army) and met Patrick there
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Its number 1 option John had been in Africa we know that for sure and they did know each other,
the regiment was posted close to tralee when they returned to ireland.
Looked up all pre ww1 records for Patrick none exist so back to square 1.
Cant understand why theres no trace of him bit off a Lord Luccan !!
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The marriage in Tralee was 1872 and it's possible that Patrick O'Lone died in Ireland before the start of civil registration in 1864. It's really not that uncommon to have difficulty finding records for someone in this era even when you have an uncommon name or exact location.
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I suppose anythings possible and i believe alot off records were burned or lost in the 1920s,
still going to check out the USA and Canada options even if he was an oldish man could
off left ireland.
John renlisted to fight in WW1 at 73yrs so they were a hardy bunch age or distance
didnt falter them.
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I suppose anythings possible and i believe alot off records were burned or lost in the 1920s...
A popular misconception, I'm afraid.
Civil registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages started in 1864 (from 1845 for non-Catholic marriages which include registry office ones) and all those records survive.
The first complete census for all Ireland is 1901- it and 1911 available online (free). Many earlier ones were deliberately destroyed after population figures were extracted (some pulped during WWI for example).
The bulk of records lost in Dublin during Civil War were some census records, original Wills and Church of Ireland registers which had been sent to Dublin for safekeeping.
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/irish-records-burned.html
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Well wether im right or wrong obviously my familes records are gone,
looked at all those other o'lones and name variants and theres no Patricks that
match . I know Johns grandson RJ jnr commanded the Ghurkas in Burma WW2 and
won the DSO for Gallantry inturn his son Digby was a Brigadier General in the army,
They were quite clearly a very well educated and intelligent military minded people who
somehow i dont believe they descended from a shoemaker.
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Well wether im right or wrong obviously my familes records are gone,.
With all due respect, we cannot surmise or guess if we want accurate family history & I advise you to take evidence from records that do exist and from an experienced researcher who is trying to help.
They were quite clearly a very well educated and intelligent military minded people who
somehow i dont believe they descended from a shoemaker.
That simply needn't be the case; the army educated people and education in general improved between ca 1810 [when John's father was probably born] and the end of that century. Many educated people of the 19th & 20th centuries were descended from low paid agricultural labourers and the like - including shoemakers.
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Josey but there are no records that exist thats my point, the advice you speak off
in my view is negativity and one well know researcher not on this site i may add.
Even suggested a change in religion for a free meal !
My family are not beggars and never were.
They were a noble people.
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Johns son Capt Walter Percy DCM was killed at Hooge 1915, he was shot jumping into
german trenches leading his men in the attack, Capt RJ MID was also killed Le Bizet 1915,
Lt Charles Henry Spence jnr was one of the original Old Contemptibles was wounded
1917 Pilckem Ridge. Do these sound like men whose grandfather would sell his sole
for a bowl of soup ??
Also how can a mans name be on a marriage certificate if he was dead 7yrs prior
thats not advice thats stupidity!
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In no particular order-
Also how can a mans name be on a marriage certificate if he was dead 7yrs prior
thats not advice thats stupidity!
Irish marriage certificates do not always indicate if the father is dead so it's perfectly possible for the father to have been deceased for a number of years.
Do these sound like men whose grandfather would sell his sole
for a bowl of soup ??
It could simply be a matter of a mixed marriage, especially since Belfast, which is where the O'Lones were supposed to be from, was not as badly hit by the Great Famine as other parts of Ireland like the rural west for example.
Josey but there are no records that exist thats my point
At this point it's not confirmed that no records exist but merely the case you haven't been able to find any records.
They were quite clearly a very well educated and intelligent military minded people who
somehow i dont believe they descended from a shoemaker.
Then what's the alternative? that John lied at the time of his marriage? I have to agree with josey. It's more likely that John's father was a shoemaker and I can't see that it would be anything to be ashamed of. Once John joined the Army it's not surprising that his family later did the same.
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I have been looking for answers to solve the Patrick question for a number off years,
In the past so called researchers were helpful and not misleading .
Now once the word presbyterian or british army is put into the equasion there is an element who
seem to delight in misleading family history.
I am proud of my family my culture and my beliefs.
No records mean no records for now.
Unless you have something sensible to contribute this topic is now closed.
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Cline I have just sent you a pm
Sarah
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This topic is now closed and i dont want any replies off any sort ,
There is no reason my family could not be descendants off Huguenots there are many
names that are similar D'Olon, Du Lone, De Laone , LaLone these are only a few examples.
I am quite happy with the fact that my family have always been Prodestants and military
people so again KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOUR SELF.
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I can see that you have taken no notice of my pm to you cline