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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Buckinghamshire => England => Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Deb Clark Rennie on Sunday 10 December 17 00:52 GMT (UK)
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Hello all hoping I don't turn my question into a mini novel but need some help sorting a section of my family tree.
My 3 x great grandfather Richard Fry had been somewhat of a mystery for quite some years according to my mother's cousin who has been researching for some time but had been stuck on Richard until recently. Richard Fry born 1805 in Frensham Surrey married Elizabeth Sarah Stevens in 1831 in Upton their first child Thomas was born the same year they had 13 children all up and because my great grandparents were cousins (yet another Skelton in the family tree no one told me about) I then descend from Edward and William Fry.
However they mystery was no records could be found of Richard Fry his marriage to Elizabeth or their first 3 children. Until we discovered that Richard was actually born Richard Goff the illegitimate son of Martha Goff and so the records can then be found under Goff. What changed when the 4 th son was born we don't know but from then on the name is changed to Fry. We think the early family were aware of the name as on my great grandfather Henry's enlistment papers where he lists his children's names and births and his wife's maiden name who was born Rose Fry he uses the name Gough. We think to avoid embarrassment of marrying his cousin. My aunt who knew none of this also said that the surname of the family that sponsored them to come to Australia was also Gough. No idea if that was just a coincidence.
What I'm now hoping to determine is who Elizabeth Sarah Stevens parents are. I did find a baptism on find my past for Elizabeth Sarah Stevens born 1812 to Charles and Sarah Stevens which seems to fit. She does put on her census forms she was born in Colnbrook but the baptism says Horton Buckinghamshire. I also noted her first son is baptised in Horton and the following two in Colnbrook. As I'm in Australia I have no idea how close these two places are? I then looked further at Charles and Sarah and discovered more children and Elizabeth does seem to use a lot of the same names including Charles for her children. But I've no way of being certain if these are her parents.
On her marriage to Richard Fry (then Goff) it's only a transcript and so I'm wondering how I might go about finding the original and if it might list her fathers name? So I'm hoping I might be able to get some help here for that as being in Australia makes looking it up somewhat awkward :-)
My tree on ancestry is public and I've added Charles and Sarah Stevens in as parents for now while I search. So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Deb
Sent from my iPad
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Here are the Genuki pages for Horton and Colnbrook.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BKM/Horton
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BKM/Colnbrook
On modern day Google maps the actual towns are 40-50 miles apart depending on route, but back then - the Horton Parish extended down to Colnbrook
It does seems the 1812 baptism you've found would be a good fit. Both places were small, low population. I think the middle name may be a good identifier, too.
You could check the records for all 'Stevens' recorded as born or baptized, or married in those 2 places in same time period - sometimes a way to identify how many families of a singular name were 'operating' in the same area at the same time.
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You could try emailing Buckinghamshire Genealogical Society for the marriage record, kevin.quick@bucksgs.org.uk
or
Buckinghamshire Record Office, archives@buckscc.gov.uk
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Is this them in 1841 ? If it is has Elizabeth died before 1851?
Langley Marish, Buckinghamshire. Eton Union.
Rickard Fry M 35-39
Elizabeth Fry F 25-29 Buckinghamshire
Thomas Fry M 10 Buckinghamshire
Henry Fry F 9 Buckinghamshire
Richard Fry M 8 Buckinghamshire
John Fry M 5 Buckinghamshire
Charles Fry M 4 Buckinghamshire
Edward Fry M 2 Buckinghamshire
1851 Langley Marish, Buckinghamshire
Richard Fry Head M 46 England
James Fry Son M 5 England
Alfred Fry Son M 2 England
George Fry Son M 1 England
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Thanks for the quick replies ... will follow up. I do think that I have the right baptisim for Elizabeth Sarah Stevens the middle name helps and the date is about right too. I have also found another tree for a Charles and Sarah Stevens with other children I suspect Elizabeth may have been the first born, it seems at some point the family moved to The Whitechapel area where they were chandlers and soap makers. I looked more into Charles Stevens and I think he is the son of James and Elizabeth Stevens and they also have several children baptised in Horton. Two of those can later be found as chandlers and soap makers in St Giles. If it is the right family perhaps she got her first name from her grandmother and her second name from her mother?
That is them on the 1841 census there's more children on future census although one of them has them under Try instead of Fry :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Oh ... just noticed no that isn't the right one for 1851 she is still there and they now have 9 children.
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Elizabeth died in 1884
Deb
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FRY, ELIZABETH 69
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 346
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On modern day Google maps the actual towns are 40-50 miles apart depending on route, but back then - the Horton Parish extended down to Colnbrook
'Horton Parish' is not the one you are looking at and is adjoining Colnbrook
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BKM/Horton/StMichael
It sits between the Wraysbury reservoir and Queen Mary Reservoir
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I saw this courtesy of the links posted earlier which made it easier to comprehend
"Colnbrook is a small town lying in the civil parishes of Horton, Langley Marish and Iver in Buckinghamshire and of Stanwell in Middlesex, From the middle of the 14th century it was a chapelry attached to the parish of Horton, and was made into an ecclesiastical parish in 1853. The parish boundary was altered in 1873 to include parts of Iver parish. With the exception of these the north side of Colnbrook forms a detached part of Langley Marish, divided from Horton by a gutter." [© copyright of the editors of The Victoria Histories of the Counties of England]
Bibliography
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Horton, now comes under Berkshire, and is about 1.5km away from Colnbrook.
If you look up Colnbrook on Google Maps, it's to the North East of The Queen Mother Reservoir. Horton is to the South East of the same Reservoir.
They are quite easy to find. ;)
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I was born in Datchet (my parents still live there) and our family farm was compulsory purchased to create the Queen Mother reservoir. My cousin owns the Water Sport Park on the opposite side of the Horton Road, which runs around the reservoir leading from Datchet to Horton to Colnebrook. It take only about 5-10minutes or so to walk from the centre of Horton to Colnebrook. Back in the early 1800’s the family used both Langley Marish and St Mary’s Datchet for baptisms, weddings and burials. For a number of years the family lived right on the edge of Horton but never used the Church in Horton or Colnebrook. We have the occasional baptism in Eton too so well worth looking there too.
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You should consider contacting the Buckinghmashire Family History Society. They have separate databases for baptisms, marriages and burials and will do 100 year searches of a particular surname (and spelling variations) in any or all of the databases. I think its still only £3 a go, so well worth it.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/database-searches
Oh, and they email the results - and I'm sure they will have a system for payment in other than British £s. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
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You should consider contacting the Buckinghmashire Family History Society. They have separate databases for baptisms, marriages and burials and will do 100 year searches of a particular surname (and spelling variations) in any or all of the databases. I think its still only £3 a go, so well worth it.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/database-searches
Oh, and they email the results - and I'm sure they will have a system for payment in other than British £s. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
I pay in Euro's/€, and the currency conversion is automatic. ;)
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Thanks for the tips I shall look into them ... would be great if there is a record of Elizabeth's father on the marriage as that would help cement it for me. Knowing now that Horton and Colnbrook are that close does make it more plausible and I shall also look forward to aqainting myself a bit more with the history of the area.
I did find a will yesterday from James Stevens and there is mention of a son Charles in there along with other children. I will need to re read it a few times as I do find them a bit of a challenge. He mentions Horton Moor in there.
I then wondered how Richard met Elizabeth ... but he was a carpenter and I suppose it's plausible he travelled with his work ... obviously got up to no good with Elizabeth going by the dates of their first born and the marriage date.
Thank you all again for taking the time to advise me.
Blessings
Deb
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I knew the name Richard Fry was familiar.
In the 1881 census at Wexham Street, Stoke Poges, the two lodgers with Richard and Elizabeth were George Miller (my great grandfather) and William Mitchell (George's 1st cousin).
I don't think there was any family connection.
However, I can add from my experience, that people moved quite freely around the South Bucks parishes.
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Oh wow! How amazing is that!! One thing I have been digging into is that Richard Fry ... being likely to be the son of Martha Goffe ... is and I'm not sure here as it requires further digging is that there was a William Goffe married to a Mary Mitchell but I've not yet dug to see if that is right or not. As Martha's parents were Martha and William Goffe.
But either way it seems our ancestors knew each other :-)
Blessings
Deb
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You should consider contacting the Buckinghmashire Family History Society. They have separate databases for baptisms, marriages and burials and will do 100 year searches of a particular surname (and spelling variations) in any or all of the databases. I think its still only £3 a go, so well worth it.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/database-searches
Oh, and they email the results - and I'm sure they will have a system for payment in other than British £s. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
I tired to do this this evening but no reply email came through I checked my junk mail nothing in there I couldn't see a contact email on the web page so I'm not sure what to try next ... do you know how I might contact them
Thank you
Deb
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http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/about-us/contact-the-society/society-postholders
Click the name against the area of interest,
Jenny
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You should consider contacting the Buckinghmashire Family History Society. They have separate databases for baptisms, marriages and burials and will do 100 year searches of a particular surname (and spelling variations) in any or all of the databases. I think its still only £3 a go, so well worth it.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/database-searches
Oh, and they email the results - and I'm sure they will have a system for payment in other than British £s. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
I tired to do this this evening but no reply email came through I checked my junk mail nothing in there I couldn't see a contact email on the web page so I'm not sure what to try next ... do you know how I might contact them
Thank you
Deb
The link for search requests posted earlier, is all you need. You fill in the online form, and wait for the results.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/database-searches/search-request
You will be notified if a result is found, and then asked to pay in the same notification. The payment will be for a Search Voucher, from the online shop, which covers the cost of the search.
A reply does not happen overnight, it can take a few days to get results. The site is run by volunteers, so be patient.
Steve. :)
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Thank you all sorted :-) now I wait and hope I might get some proof I'm on the right track ... I think I am but it's always good to get some verification.
Blessings
Deb
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Ok I'm clutching at straws here but searching further using some of the links given ... I'm still looking for Charles Stevens and his marriage. Seems the family not only had homes in Horton but also London and the picture I'm getting is that only one brother Henry stayed on farming while the other brothers had a candle and soap making business.
Henry Stevens is then married to Mary and seems they have five children two sons one called William Littlewood Stevens and one called John Hutton Stevens. I've just found a marriage for Charles and Sarah in 1808 and one of the witnesses is an Ann Littlewood. Using some of the above links I found a reference of headstones at the cemetery in Horton and I found this - just wanting opinions if the fact that these tombs are together .. that it's looking like the Stevens and Littlewood have history? Henry did also have a sister Ann ... perhaps she also married a Littlewood?
On an elevated piece of ground at the back of the female yew tree, within a tall iron rail, is another tomb, on the top of which -
Sacred to the memory of Mary, beloved wife of Henry Stevens, died 2nd February, 1848, aged 60. Sacred to the memory of Henry, husband of the said Mary Stevens, died 21st October, 1851, aged 60.
On the north side of the same tomb -
Ann, wife of Edward Hall, Esq., who died 28th July 1829, æt. 45. Also Ann, wife of John Littlewood, Esq., died 22nd August, 1833, æt. 36.
On the south side -
William Littlewood Stevens, son of Henry Stevens of this parish and Mary his wife, died 24th September, 1835, æt. 9.
Mary Ann Fowles of Stanwell, daughter of the above Henry and Mary Stevens of Wyrardisbury, died 16th June, 1847 æt. 30.
Also John Hutton Steven, son of the above, died 24th September, 1850, æt. 32.
Blessings
Deb
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Think I have answered part of my own question ... found Henry's marriage to Mary Littlewood and the witnesses were Ann and William Littlewood. So now I'm wondering if Ann was a Stevens? Or just a family friend.
But I think it's looking at least likely that this is Charles marriage.