RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: janjim on Sunday 10 December 17 04:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
We have found a very old photo of one of our family members, taken in Newbury by C. Hawker, Portrait & Landscape Photographer of 84 Northbrook Street, Newbury.
Wondering if anyone could assist me, in this regard. We think it could possibly be a photo of John & Ellen New, who lived in Newbury, most likely taken in their younger years.
If we can identify when the Photographer was working in Newbury, we might be able to get an idea of who they are.
Jan
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Charles Leo HAWKER
Photographer of 84 Northbrook Street, Newbury (1891, 1901 & 1911 census)
Charles Adrian HAWKER
Photographer of Swiss Cottage, 35 West Mills, Newbury (1901 & 1911 census)
Was assistant to his father Charles Leo HAWKER at time of 1891 census.
William H. HAWKER
Photographic assistant to his father Charles Leo HAWKER (1891 census)
from:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/47079330@N03/galleries/72157632751769906/?rb=1
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Thank you, that gives me a better idea of the years.
Jan
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Hawker came to Newbury as a partner to Ernest Brooks and was in that role by 1878. Brooks retired and Hawker or Hawker & Son continued for a long time. Charles Adrian, the second generation, was Mayor during the Great War (1915-1918) - the business was at 84 Northbrook Street until 1937.
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Thanks Newbury Chap for that information. I think the photograph that I have asked to get dated on another posting, now indicates it would have been taken in the 1870's, but identifying who they are, is a little difficult. John & Ellen New were born in 1832, which would make them in their early 40's by the 1870s. Someone has commented that they look to be in their 20's. There were only 4 senior members in the 1870s' that connect with the possibilities, News, the Chivers or the Durbins. Anyway, that's for us to work out who they are. Thanks for your help.
Jan
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Hawker came to Newbury as a partner to Ernest Brooks and was in that role by 1878. Brooks retired and Hawker or Hawker & Son continued for a long time. Charles Adrian, the second generation, was Mayor during the Great War (1915-1918) - the business was at 84 Northbrook Street until 1937.
Jim, the resident photo dater who is very knowledgeable on the subject, dated this one to the 1870s so that would fit.
Carol
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Hi Treetotal,
Okay, so now that you have seen that photo, you would agree that those two people could have been in their 40's not 20's.
Jan
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Looking at that photograph, I don't think they are in their 40s.
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Okay, that is interesting, I am attaching the photo to this post now, so that others may come up with answers. We would really like to think that this is John & Ellen New both born 1832, but may not be. Jan
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And here are John & Ellen New in the early 1900's at Newbury.
Jan
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Hi Treetotal,
Okay, so now that you have seen that photo, you would agree that those two people could have been in their 40's not 20's.
Jan
I would say that they look to be in their 20s.
Carol
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mmmm, yes I guess so, everyone aged very quickly in those early days. Will be interested to hear more comments from others.
Jan
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The photos appear to be taken at the same time and in the same studio...if they were a couple, I am wondering why they are not posed together. I can see a likeness between the two women.
Carol
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Yes two separate photos, you do wonder why, if they were a couple, why weren't they posing for the photograph together. I thought the same thing, the lady could have been Ellen New, not sure about the fellow though. It is now a process of elimination in deciding who they are.
Jan
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Hi Jan,
I presume the back of the photos are printed - hence the Hawker ID as photographer. Any chance of seeing these - backs are often better for dating than the front.
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The other post:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783915.0
Carol
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Will put it up again shortly
Jan
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Hi Newbury Chap, here is the full copy of the back of the photograph in question.
Jan
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Is the same design on the back of both photos?
That design dates from the late 1880s - 1888/89. In the 1870s I expect it to be a Brooks & Hawker design (below).
The backs came from design catalogues - pick your border and say what you want printed in it.
Roger Vaughan's excellent guide to dating CdVs at http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~victorianphotographs/time/back85.htm has two other photographers using the same frame design (one below). He dates them as 1888/89, and he knows a lot about CdVs.
Of course they may be reprints on an earlier photo.
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Hi Newbury Chap,
Well both of the cards were the same. So if it was the late 1880's, I believe the photo would not have been John & Ellen New. In any case, you would think they would have been photographed together, as shown in the photo of them in latter years.
Thanks for that, more thinking to do on who they are now
Jan
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I have shown the photos to my resident dating expert - she reckons the woman's dress is late 1880s, 1890s - sadly the bustle is not in view as this would, apparently, allow a more precise dating.
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Thanks Newbury Chap, looks like this would be one of John & Ellen New's sons then, with that dating now.
Merry Xmas, have a great one.
Jan