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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Wigtownshire => Topic started by: Matt Wilson on Tuesday 12 December 17 08:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi, guys, hoping I've finally broken a wall down after all these years. My gg granddad john Wilson married esther brotherton in 1861 Wolverhampton and listed his birthplace as Scotland 1842 and father james - a tin smith which matches james Wilson born 1816 Wigtownshire living in London road Wigtownshire in stranraer but cannot find james or his wife elizabeths death date, his whole children's line seems to emigrate or vanish after 1881. There's a james Wilson baptised in 1817 wigtown with parents mary simpson and Thomas Wilson but in 1841 census the only ones in Wigtownshire (married 1830) are listed as born in 1806 which can't be right. Any help setting me on the right track and helping me extend this possible breakthrough would be very much appreciated.
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Hi Matt
I've been struggling for years with my Wilson family from Dumfries and Galloway. Wilson is a fairly common name. How do you know that your line came from Wigtownshire, as you say Scotland rather than an other part of Scotland?
Who were the witnesses at the marriage and have you tried to find John on the 1851 census?
Gadget
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Hi, I'm only assuming john came from Wigtownshire as the 1861 james Wilson was a tin smith, his wife was Elizabeth (john named his daughter that) and the 1861 james had a son john born 1842, in 1863 john and his new wife moved to Glasgow so i thought he might have family there but less than a year later returned to Wolverhampton but john was a journeyman so moved around a lot.
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How do you know that John's mother was Elizabeth - apart from the name of his daughter ?
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The later censuses (1891-1911) often have the full place of birth - have you got him on those?
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I don't know that john's mom was Elizabeth but that was his only daughters name before he died in 1870.
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I've been looking on the 1851 for a John, born 1842 +/- 1 yr, Scotland, with father James, a tinsmith. So far I've only found one that vaguely fits:
Middle street, Grangemouth, Stirlingshire
James, 42, Blacksmith, b. Falkirk
Sam (?), 45, wife, b. Falkirk
.....
John, son, 9,b. Falkirk
6 other children
I don't think it's the correct family but this might be the only way to find them.
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which one do you think is the likeliest? wigtown or Falkirk? my john had sons called Samuel, john and Robert and might have reused them from his family back home. in his 1870 obituary his wife esther lists his father as living in Wolverhampton, although she lists him as john rather than james but she misspelt her first sons name as Edward henry rather than Edward james as it was corrected on birth cert.
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Not sure but have you searched for James in Wolverhampton. Is the obituary in an online newspaper?
This might be the Wigtownshire one:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY99-PMR
It's not necessarily your John though.
Who were the witnesses at his marriage?
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Yes, that familysearch one matches my wigtown wilsons I was working on, esthers sister signed her marriage cert and George leah who I've found in w'ton but think is their friend. Johns death cert of april 12th 1870 is signed by esther at the address I know she lived at so that matches but unsure of obituary, it was published few days after in local paper saying he died after very severe illness and death cert said john died of tb so reckon it is him but very hard working backwards through wilsons.
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Not found the obituary so far but will have another look later. The Gorbals visit is interesting - I assume you found them through children's births. Have you followed that up re relatives there?
Can you remember if the obituary suggested that James was still alive?
It took me years finding my Wilsons.
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Hi Gadget, don't think obituaries on internet, I ofund it scrolling through Wolverhampton archive papers but said johns dad was living of darlington street (maybe he visited when he heard his son was dying?) in 1881 census theres an Elizabeth Wilson living in wigtown (London rd) mentioned as widowed I think might be Elizabeth ferguson.
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Not sure about the James/Elizabeth Ferguson couple but they married New Luce 4th Dec 1841 , both of the parish - no other info. They are unlikely to be on the 1841 census as a couple.
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In 1841 there is a James Wilson age 26 and an Elizabeth Fergusson age 22 in the same household(New Luce).
James is listed as a lodger(FreeCEN).
ev
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In 1851, they are at Culloch Place, London Road, Inch
James, 35, joiner, b. Wig - I thought he was a tinsmith though :-\
Elizabeth, 33, b. Kirkmaiden
John, 9, b. -do-
Helen, 7, b. Wig
James, 5, b. Wig
Eliza, 2, b. Stranraer
Jane, under 1, b. Inch
Gadget
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James is only a tin smith in1861 census, the year before his son john married, I might be wrong but its the closest ive gotten in 2 years searching.
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It does look like the same family and John not there so looks really good :)
1861 London Road, Inch
James Wilson, 45,Tinsmith (journeyman)b. Penninghame
Elisabeth, 43, b. Kirkmaiden
Elizabeth, 12, b. Stranraer
Jane, 10,
Ann, 3
Alexander 8
Thomas, 1
Janet, 1
Birthplace of other = Inch
Need to look for James bpt in Penninghame and Elisabeth in Kirkmaiden.
Gadget
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And, as you said, Elisabeth is a widow by 1871:
54 London Road, Inch
Elizabeth Wilson, wid, 53, gas fitter's widow and sewer, b. Kirkmaiden
Alexander, 16, coach painter (apprentice), b. Stranraer
Annie, 12, scholar,b. -do-
Gadget
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From the Wigtownshire Pages*, Penninghame births
This could be James, given his first son's name and second daughter named Helen:
bpt 18 Mar 1815 - John Wilson and Helen McMickan had a lawful son born on 18th - not named
The birth and bpt on same day and not named could suggest a sick baby and possible death but it's a maybe.
Gadget
* http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ainsty/
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From SP:
Kirkmaiden bpt - 31 May 1815
Elizabeth Ferguson d of Robert Ferguson and Elizabeth McLoy
A bit early but only it's one showing - a possible. No child named Robert :-\
Gadget
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Robert Ferguson and Elizabeth McLoy, Kirkmaiden, also had
William 17 May, 1807
Janet 17 Jan 1809
John 7 June 1813
Robert 10 Oct 1816
Alexander 13 June 1820
Samuel 8 Sept 1822
Some family names there!
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Just seen in one of your earlier threads that the obituary has John as the only son of James.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758694.0
but there were - could be that Esther didn't know them though :-\
Also, can't find a death in Inch for James (1861-1871) and wondering if they returned to Scotland in the early 1860s for his funeral - maybe James was working in Glasgow at the time.
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Thanks so much for your help on this, the family seems to vanish after 1881, do you know what happened to Elizabeth ferguson and her kids?
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There is an Elizabeth Wilson b. c 1817 Kirkmaiden Wigtownshire on the 1891 Census , living St Rollox Lanarkshire.
Birth year a bit out but SP has a death for an Elizabeth Wilson(or Ferguson) , age 71 , 1893 St Rollox Lanark.
ev
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Wow, thanks so much ev, I really appreciate the help untangling this Wilson riddle. James Wilson is still living in London road mcculloch place in 1871 so his death must be between 1871 and 1881.
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Just bought the elizabeth Wilson death cert on scotands people and it lists her as widow of james Wilson tin smith so I think its her.
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What does it have for her parents' names?
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Looks good :)
Who signed the death cert ?
Gadget gave us the 1871 Census which had Elizabeth as widowed in 1871 , so a death for James should be between 1861 and 1871.
ev
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Sorry yes, Elizabeth is listed as daughter of Robert ferguson and her daughter jane signed it.
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Gadget gave us the 1871 Census which had Elizabeth as widowed in 1871 , so a death for James should be between 1861 and 1871.
ev
I did a search for that this afternoon, ev. None that I could see in Wigtownshire and about 9 elsewhere in Scotland. I was thinking that he might have moved around if he was a gas fitter at that stage so he may have died outwith the county - ?? Glasgow.
Where in Glasgow was John's son born, Matt?
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Just remembered that Terry has the MI booklet for Inch - it might be worth trying that thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=289678.0
She doesn't come on as often as she used to though.
Gadget
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Edward james Wilson was born in rose street Glasgow. theres also a james Wilson born 1815 died in leek staffordshire in 1871, what do you think?
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Not sure about the Leek one - why do you think he was down there?
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No, maybe not, I was just thinking about that obituary listing him in Wolverhampton (staffordshire0 but I think its best to concentrate on Scotland now.
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Found his death - used some credits - 1870. Age a bit out so I left it blank!
Will give detail in a mo - let me have your e-mail via PM and I'll send it.
Parents as I found on bpt - John and Ellen/Helen.
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John Wilson, joiner and tinsmith. married to Elizabeth Ferguson.
29th Sept 1870 3h10m pm at 54 London Road, Inch
Aged 51
Parents - John Wilson, farmer (dec) and Ellen Wilson MS Mikay (?)
Cause - Hooping (Whooping) cough about 12 days. cert by John argyll, surgeon
Informant Alexander F Wilson, son, present
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Thanks so much gadget, id never have untangled it all without your awesomeness.
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You are welcome, Matt. I know how difficult these Wilsons can be :)
Gadget
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Cert safely received, thanks so much again. :)
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Ahhhhh - not finished yet !
Marriage Penninghame 6 Nov 1814 John Wilson and Elizabeth McMickan
Maybe Ellen/Helen had two names!