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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: bugbear on Tuesday 12 December 17 11:54 GMT (UK)
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I was recently in York and bought some yummy fat rascals from Bettys.
Very nice.
I then googled it, and found "the controversy". Short version - despite "Fat Rascals" being a long standing Yorkshire thing, Bettys (somehow) got a trademark on the name in the 1980's.
So I wondered what the oldest:
a) reference
b) recipe
that a bunch of genealogists AKA family historians AKA social historians could find was.
I'll start with this reference, from the web:
http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/fatrascals.htm
The origin of the name is obscure, it is known in this context at least since the 1855 'Glossary of Yorkshire Words and Phrases Collected in Whitby and the Neighbourhood' of 1855 where the definition of 'Spice Cake' is given as; "tea cakes with currants as well as cakes more generally, known as plum cakes for which this quarter is famous. The tea cakes made rich with butter and cream are called fat rascals."
For a recipe, I offer The Cornish Telegraph - Thursday 10 October 1889, from the BNArchive (attached).
BugBear
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I'm East Yorkshire born & bred and until very recently had never heard of a "fat rascal"
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This Londoner (but with connections to Yorkshire) is rather partial to a Fat Rascal..... :)
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All the recipes I've found on the "modern" 'net appear to be trying to duplicate the Betty's version, which is very much richer than the pre 1960 recipes I've found.
BugBear
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I've just found a recipe for Fat Rascals in " May Byron's Cake Book" published in 1915!
I am sure the one I bought in Haworth some years ago had a glace cherry on it but perhaps that's a modern "twist".
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This from the BNArchive: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Tuesday 18 January 1944
(15 years ago would be 1929). Anyone got this wonderful WI recipe book?
BugBear
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I've just found a recipe for Fat Rascals in " May Byron's Cake Book" published in 1915!
I am sure the one I bought in Haworth some years ago had a glace cherry on it but perhaps that's a modern "twist".
Could you post the recipe? Where is the book from?
(google says this is the author:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Byron
)
BugBear
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I've had the book for years....tend to pick them up in charity shops, jumble sales etc; have a small shelf full of old recipe books.....one even includes a recipe for......a jam sandwich!! ::)
Take half a pound of flour, three ounces of butter or good margarine, four ounces of granulated sugar, four ounces of sultanas, about one saltspoonful of mixed spice and one teaspoonful of baking powder. Mix thoroughly, moisten with a little milk and one beaten egg, and bake in small shaped or fluted patty-pans.
That's it....no time or oven temp.
Feeling hungry now.... ;D
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Found this reference on a Jamie Oliver website:
The origin of the name isn’t as derogatory towards the buyer as it sounds – and the bun has a clever history. Allegedly it was dreamt up in Elizabethan times by thrifty bakers who didn’t want to waste leftover bits of dough at the end of their shift. These dough scraps were souped-up by the addition of spices and candied or dried fruit – the more exotic of which were considered luxury goods in the 1800s.
Several literary mentions of the fat rascal (some referring to the bun, and some probably not) include Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Charles Dickens’ Household Words magazine, and the 1855 “Glossary of Yorkshire Words and Phrases”, which I could have done with a copy of on my visit.
https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-features/features/fat-rascals-of-yorkshire/
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Just bookmarking - fascinating topic & just shows how big business can make you assume they invented things. I don't think a company should be able to trademark something that wasn't theirs exclusively.
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Found another recipe, from a Yorkshire paper: BNArchive, as always.
Bradford Daily Telegraph - Tuesday 20 August 1901
BugBear
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1951 - clearly a normal part of home baking; the show had a whole judging class for Fat Rascals, with 11 entries.
Yorkshire Evening Post - Friday 24 August 1951 BNArchive
BugBear
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Next question - what is 'cottage pastry' ???
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Sort of historical; this was a Recipe from a book Edith Roosevelt had; bit of a daisy chain:
I got my version of the recipe from the Food Timeline, which was republished from The Presidents' Cookbook. According to that cook book, this recipe comes from a book owned by Edith Roosevelt.
http://apeekintothepantry.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/samantha-makes-roosevelts-fat-rascals.html
The recipe is unlike the modern "Bettys-a-like" on the 'net, and much more like the ones I've been finding in the BNA:
Here it is, in American:
I took two cups of flour, 1/2 teaspoon of salt, 1/8 cup of sugar, and two teaspoons of baking powder, sifted them together, and cut in 3/4 of a cup of butter until the mixture was grainy. I stirred in 1/2 pound of dried currants, made sure they were well incorporated in the flour and butter mixture, and then gradually added 1/2 of a cup of milk until I had a dough
... They bake in a 450 degree oven for about twelve minutes according to the recipe
In old English
I took 9oz of s/r flour, 1/2 teaspoon of salt, 1oz of sugar, sifted them together, and cut in 6oz of butter until the mixture was grainy. I stirred in 8 oz of dried currants, made sure they were well incorporated in the flour and butter mixture, and then gradually added 4oz of milk until I had a dough
... They bake in a hot oven for about twelve minutes according to the recipe
In modern:
I took 255gr of s/r flour, 1/2 teaspoon of salt, 30gr of sugar, sifted them together, and cut in 170gr of butter until the mixture was grainy. I stirred in 225gr of dried currants, made sure they were well incorporated in the flour and butter mixture, and then gradually added 115ml of milk until I had a dough
... They bake in a 230°C oven for about twelve minutes according to the recipe
BugBear
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I'm East Yorkshire born & bred and until very recently had never heard of a "fat rascal"
Me too....you learn something new every day on here :D
Carol
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This from the BNArchive: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Tuesday 18 January 1944
(15 years ago would be 1929). Anyone got this wonderful WI recipe book?
BugBear
Found almost (but not quite...) by chance
Leeds Mercury - Friday 04 November 1927; the first edition of the WI book.
BugBear
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Our local coop(Holmfirth) has got round the copyright by calling the biscuits 'Yorkshire rascals'.
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Our local coop(Holmfirth) has got round the copyright by calling the biscuits 'Yorkshire rascals'.
The Whitby restaurant in the recent court case ended up with "Whitby Fatties".
Following my research, I can assert that a Whitby recipe is likely to be more original than a Harrogate one...
BugBear
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This from the BNArchive: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Tuesday 18 January 1944
(15 years ago would be 1929). Anyone got this wonderful WI recipe book?
BugBear
A letter to the Whitby Gazette, re: the court case (I think);
https://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/letters-fat-rascals-once-cooked-on-moorland-around-whitby-1-8873681
It includes the recipe from the 3rd edition (1958) of the WI Cook Book;
Ingredients
8oz self raising flour, 4oz lard, 3oz sugar, 2oz currants, 1oz sultanas, pinch of salt, water or beaten egg.
Method
Rub the lard into the flour and add the other ingredients.
Mix to a fairly soft dough with a little water or, to make extra good use a little well beaten egg. Roll out to about half inch thickness and cut into rounds.
Bake in a hot oven (425°) for about 15 minutes or until nicely brown. Makes about twenty-four pieces.
BugBear
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Hello bugbear :D
Fast forward to 21st Feb 2020
Channel 5 Friday 21st at 21 00 pm
Celebrity Britain by Barge,Then and Now
Bill Oddie,Jennie Bond,Anne Diamond and Pete Waterman
On the journey Anne Diamond stopped off to go to the shop where Fat Rascals were made .YUMMY
Saw them being made
The other name was said several times,but I cant remember it :-X
I had been looking for at least an Hour,when I came across you Thread :)
Must see if its on Catch Up etc
omega
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Found another recipe, from a Yorkshire paper: BNArchive, as always.
Bradford Daily Telegraph - Tuesday 20 August 1901
BugBear
Looks like I need to buy a girdle ;D before I attempt to make these.
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I have just watched a topic on The One Show about Fat Rascals and Betty’s Tea Rooms. I, too, had never heard of them. I then come on RC and find this old thread back on topic 😄
Having read through the old recipes, it seems I have eaten them but never knew they had a name!
My Nan used to make them when I was a child and they were scrummy! She never used a recipe book or scales and I have tried many times to make them but they were never as good as hers. In fact, I only mentioned them to my husband this morning.
I shall have to try one of the old recipes and see if they turn out as good as my Nans 😄
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I saw them in a shop window in Haworth and took a photo as had never heard of them before.
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This from the BNArchive: Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Tuesday 18 January 1944
(15 years ago would be 1929). Anyone got this wonderful WI recipe book?
BugBear
Found almost (but not quite...) by chance
Leeds Mercury - Friday 04 November 1927; the first edition of the WI book.
BugBear
Further researching the WI book;
This google book
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xT8eDQAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s
lists early editions as
October 1927
November 1927
December 1927
March 1928
July 1928
December 1928
(those sound like print runs, not editions, to me)
Worthpoint has a reference to a copy being sold on eBay
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1927-yorkshire-recipes-pub-leeds-york-533035888
BugBear
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I was in St Davids over the weekend and enjoyed some Welsh cakes - scrummy - and they seem to be a bit similar to Fat Rascals except the Yorkshire cakes have more milk in the dough?
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I saw them in a shop window in Haworth and took a photo as had never heard of them before.
That might have been the bakery I went to decades ago! :)
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Fat Rascals are simply scones by any other name. ;)
Cheers
Guy
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Fat Rascals are simply scones by any other name. ;)
Cheers
Guy
I take it you don’t do a lot of baking Guy ;) If you take a look at the op’s recipe you will see 1lb flour to half a pound of butter. Much richer than a scone mix which has a far lower fat to flour ratio and far less fruit :)
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The programme with Anne Diamond is on Catchup ,My5
omega
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I was in St Davids over the weekend and enjoyed some Welsh cakes - scrummy - and they seem to be a bit similar to Fat Rascals except the Yorkshire cakes have more milk in the dough?
Welsh cakes are generally flat and Fat Rascals are more domed; lots of photos on the internet.
Feeling hungry now!
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My Mum used to cook Welsh Tea Cakes on a Griddle. Lovely with thick Welsh Butter on.I`m dribbling :D
Nothing like Scones,but those Fat Rascals look Yummy.
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Nothing like Scones,but those Fat Rascals look Yummy.
I can confirm.....Fat Rascals are yummy.
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I've ... rather indulged, having been monitoring eBay for quite a long time...
BugBear
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Good find!
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BBC2 Remarkable Places to Eat. .....Bettys in Harrogate.....Fat Rascals!
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I've been to Betty's but don't remember having heard of these before, aren't they just scones?
I live in East Yorkshire but have neve heard of them before.
Carol
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That's fighting talk! ;D
Definitely not scones......possibly a second cousin.
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Oh Ok.....I'll get my coat :P ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Both are delicious.....scones for everyday, Fat Rascals for a treat.
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I have jotted the recipe down and will give them a try :D
Are you a Scon or a Scone NJ? ;D ;D
Carol
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I'm Yorkshire, and I've heard of them .... even seen them, and been in the same room as them ... but never really fancied them!
TY
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I have jotted the recipe down and will give them a try :D
Are you a Scon or a Scone NJ? ;D ;D
Carol
Having lived in various parts of England and Wales I've probably used both Scon and Scone!
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All our Family are scones ;D
Carol
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It was not helped by being offered 'scon and chips' when visiting now ex-husband's family in the West Riding. A scon was a small piece of fish between two slices of potato, then battered and deep fried.
Confusing for a Londoner!
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What's the difference between a fat rascal & a rock cake?
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Temperature? ;D ;D
Carol
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Can't both be eaten warm or cold?
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Rock cakes are everyday, Fat Rascals a treat....extra ingredients!
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The Betty's variant of the Fat Rascal is often described as being like a cross between a scone and a rock cake.
BugBear