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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cornwall Lookup Requests => Cornwall => England => Cornwall Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: philipsearching on Tuesday 12 December 17 21:01 GMT (UK)
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Could a kind Rootschatter who has Anc***** have a quick look to see if Johanna JAMES (born c1849, possibly died 1871) was in Bodmin asylum?
Many thanks
Philip
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Is this Johanna James born St Ives
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Are you meaning any census during her lifetime?
There appear to be 3 Joanna/Johanna James -- on each census 1851-1871 -- but none appear to be in Bodmin asylum at the time of the census. It might be possible that she died there of course.
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My fault - I should have added better detail.
Joanna (Johanna) JAMES
birth Jun qtr 1849 Redruth, daughter of Abraham T JAMES and Johanna (nee GRAY)
found on census 1851 Gwennap with family
found on census 1861 Redruth with family
found on census 1871 Redruth with family.
not found on 1881 census or later
There is a history of mental health difficulties in the family which is why I wondered about Bodmin Asylum and this possible death (even though the age is 2 years off):
Dec qtr 1871 Bodmin vol 5c p70 - JAMES Johanna age 19
Of the 11 children of Abraham T JAMES and Johanna GRAY, she is the only one I can't trace. She doesn't appear on later censuses with her siblings and I can't find a marriage. She is not named in any family wills.
Philip
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I can't see her in 1881 either -- there is a Johanna James who dies in Alverstoke, Hampshire in 1878 (b abt 1850) --- but inconsiderately she is on the 1871 census in Alverstoke!
Think you may have to splash out on that death cert you found, if only for elimination purposes.
I have checked Cornwall OPC - but of course it is not comprehensive. If you think she may have been in the Asylum - there appear to be admission records held by Cornwall Record Office.
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe
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Think you may have to splash out on that death cert you found, if only for elimination purposes.
I have checked Cornwall OPC - but of course it is not comprehensive. If you think she may have been in the Asylum - there appear to be admission records held by Cornwall Record Office.
This family is an unhappy breed.
A few days ago I received a death cert for another woman - cause of death "drowned herself in a well while temporarily insane"
Johanna's mother spent many years in an asylum.
Other relatives in the 19th century were committed to institutions.
The reason I asked about Anc* is that they have "Bodmin, Cornwall, England, Inmates at St. Lawrence's Asylum, 1840-1900" but I don't have a current sub to view it.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61185&geo_a=r&o_iid=41013&o_lid=41013&o_sch=Web+Property
Philip
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Nothing on Ancestry.
Fizzy
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Thanks for that information Philip -- I hadn't realised the actual Asylum records were on Ancestry. I see they have Bodmin Gaol records on there as well!!
You learn something new every day. Thank you.
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Asylum records and Gaol records have been on OPC database for ages.
Fizzy
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Wonder why they didn’t have any of their children baptised.
Fizzy
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Nothing on Ancestry.
Fizzy
Many thanks for looking.
There would be no reason for my Johanna' death to be registered in Bodmin if she were not in the asylum (no known relatives or connections in the Bodmin area since c1600), so I won't buy the death cert at the moment.
I'll find her one day - just not today!
Philip
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Wonder why they didn’t have any of their children baptised.
Fizzy
The family rumour (and we all know what reliance to put on rumour!) was that Abraham detested the CofE vicar, toyed with Methodism but didn't agree with it, so stopped going to church.
Philip
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Fair enough.
A whole generation of mine were not baptised because father fell out with the church.
While on Ancestry I looked at family trees. Someone had done the same family as you and recorded that Johanna James died in Footscray Melbourne in 1907.
You might want to follow that up as she may have been a servant to a family that emigrated.
Fizzy
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Johanna James died in Footscray Melbourne in 1907.
Great find!
Is Hannah in the newspaper family notices on Trove.
Johnanna Smethurst was buried at Footscray Cemetery, 9 Dec 1907, age 56
Image here!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJY-F9QV-4?i=166&cat=225570
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Johanna James died in Footscray Melbourne in 1907.
Great find!
Is Hannah in the newspaper family notices on Trove.
Johnanna Smethurst was buried at Footscray Cemetery, 9 Dec 1907, age 56
Image here!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJY-F9QV-4?i=166&cat=225570
Am I missing a step here? Who is Johanna SMETHURST?
Did Johanna JAMES marry SMETHURST?
Philip
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Who is Johanna SMETHURST?
I don't know!
But there is a possible marriage in the Victoria indexes in 1884.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
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Yes in 1884 Johanna James married a Smethurst.
A son was born the following year James Trewartha Abraham Smethurst. They were other children too.
How exciting to find the missing Johanna.
Happy days.
Fizzy
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Yes in 1884 Johanna James married a Smethurst.
A son was born the following year James Trewartha Abraham Smethurst. They were other children too.
How exciting to find the missing Johanna.
Happy days.
Fizzy
Bonzer! Ya Beauty! (and other Aussie happy expressions).
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind you have found the right person.
Abraham Trewartha James was Johanna's father. She named a son James Trewartha Abraham.
Off I go to look at the Victoria records online. (Happy days are here again, la la la la lah!)
fizzybubble and jonw65 - Heroes of the week :) :) :)
Philip
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Another success for a Cornwall OPC.
Fizzy
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Another success for a Cornwall OPC.
Fizzy
Cornwall OPCs are awesome. I just have to remember that they have records other than just Bap/Mar/Bur.
What amazes me is that someone has posted a tree on Ancestry and put correct information on it. (Wot, me - cynical?) ;D ;D
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What gets me is that one person does all the work and puts the tree on and then others do a straight copy without checking if it’s all correct.
Don’t forget with Exeter Bishops Transcripts coming online more and more gaps are being filled on the OPC database for parishes that had patchy records before.
Myra the website admin updates records on there several times a week so keep checking back.
Of course we can’t do anything where folk didn’t have their children baptised or lived over the broom instead of marrying. BUT with newspapers coming online we can record registry office weddings and non-conformist ones .........
Fizzy
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Oh wow --- this has really moved on since I was last involved! Very well done to you intrepid researchers!
Really pleased for you Philip.
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Well done again Fizzy.
I don't know if there is more information on ancestry's version of the death registration in Victoria. Anyway, it says Johannah Smethurst was 58, father Smethurst Jas Abraham (!) and mother Johannah Grey.
1907, Footscray, registration number 12240
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Not her father but name of informant I should think.
Johanna Grey was right for mother.
Fizzy
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Well done again Fizzy.
I don't know if there is more information on ancestry's version of the death registration in Victoria. Anyway, it says Johannah Smethurst was 58, father Smethurst Jas Abraham (!) and mother Johannah Grey.
1907, Footscray, registration number 12240
Not her father but name of informant I should think.
Johanna Grey was right for mother.
The informant being her son James Trewartha Abraham SMETHURST would make sense,
Many thanks again for your help.
In less than a day you have found Johanna's marriage and death in Australia, I have now found 3 children and 1 grandchild of Johanna on https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/ and a long-time mystery has been solved.
I can now hop off like a happy bunny to share the info with my cousins and add it to their tribalpages tree.
Philip
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There are four children aren’t there
Emily
Elizabeth
Owen
James
Fizzy
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Philip -- can you let us have a photo of you when you 'hop off like a happy bunny' please?
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LOL
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Philip -- can you let us have a photo of you when you 'hop off like a happy bunny' please?
I tried to post a video on youtube - but it was removed because it was considered to contravene the law on outraging public decency :o
(1) it must be lewd, obscene or disgusting to such an extent as to outrage minimum standards of public decency as judged by the jury (or other tribunal of fact) in contemporary society;
(2) it must occur in a place which is accessible to or within view of the public;
(3) two or more persons must be present during the act or display, whether or not they are aware of the act or display or are outraged by it.
So, sadly, my happy bunny hop/dance can only take place in private :( :(
Philip