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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: eileendavid on Thursday 14 December 17 08:48 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Hope you can help. I am looking for John Evans born in Holywell Flintshire. He was my great great great grandfather who served with the 55th regiment of foot.
Thanks to the Sussex board I have found a baptism of my great great Uncle John Evans born 1815 and have all the details for him.
I am still looking for my great great grandmother Elizabeth who was born circa 1821 in Ireland.
Now I know that John was discharged from Kilmainham Ireland 29.08.1821 and went to Liverpool where he went back to his trade of shoemaker.
However what I want to know is did the 55th ever go to St Helier Jersey around 1818?
I don't know where he signed up to join the 55th or when?
Please can someone give me more details on this.
Eileen
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you have this topic open already :D :D :D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784003.msg6388985#msg6388985
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Not with the armed forces board
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A detachment (part of) the 55th Foot went to Guernsey (not what you asked but near!) in Dec 1816 followed in Jan 1817 by the regiment. In August 1818 there are newspaper reports of (perhaps elements of) the regiment in Jersey. Can't tell exactly but they seem to have left end 1819. Source for this - newspapers reports of the period.
MaxD
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Thanks for that Max it was very helpful.
Eileen
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Hello
Thanks for the help on John Evans and the 55th regiment of foot. I am now trying to find a service record for his son Edward.
He was on the 1841 census with his mother and siblings then I had nothing positive until 1871 census. This is the best lead so far.
The record is with the Royal Navy service for an Edward Evans baptised at St Peters Liverpool 10.05.1829. I have found the 1861 census for an AB Royal Navy At Sea And In Ports Abroad
Pg 2 RG09 4434/13
Can anyone give me the service details for him. By the 1871 census if he is indeed the Edward I am looking for he was out of the navy and living with his sister in Liverpool.
Thanks
Eileen
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The AB Edward Evans in the 1861 was born in Devonport so probably not your man.
Otherwise, the name does not come up in RN records as far as I can see. May I ask how you zeroed in on a RN record for him?
MaxD
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Hello Max
It was the 1861 census that said he was an AB in the Royal Navy aged 32 born in England. I didn't find him in RN. It was a long shot as he seems to disappear after the 1841 census then returns to be on his sisters census of 1871. Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.
Sorry I really thought it was my Edward but he was born in Liverpool.
Thanks again
Eileen
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You were looking at the same census RG 09 Piece 4434 13 2. It was the return for HMS Watchful in the Gulf of Picheli in the Far East.
MaxD
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Thanks for that Max
Yes that was the census I found
Eileen
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Hello Maxb,
Just a quick question is there any way I can find where John Evans served with the 55th regiment of foot. I know he signed in 1807 in Plymouth although he was from Holywell Wales.
His wife Isabella Skelton I think was born in Brampton Cumberland (1796).
He married in London 1813, his first child John was baptised at Brighton in 1815 although this son said he was born in London. He then had two children baptised in St Helier in 1817 and 1818.
My great great grandmother was born 1821 in Ireland not found this baptism yet but she recorded her birth place as Ireland on the 1841 census
He left the 55th of foot in 1821 in Ennerskillan.
He was a private for 5 years and some days then he was a corporal until being demobbed in 1821.
He then went back to being a shoemaker and lived in Liverpool his 4th child Thomas being born in 1823. John died in 1833 in Liverpool.
Just wondered if there is anyway that his service in the 55th could be traced to these dates.
Thanks again for you help
Eileen
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One way of doing it, if you have Findmypast, is to search on "55th Regiment" on their newspaper archive, limiting it to the decades of interest. This brings up mentions of the regiment and locations. Taking 1813, in August they were in London, 1815 Brighton, 1818 Guernsey which included men on Jersey and in 1821 in Ireland leaving there in October en route for South Africa.
This isn't foolproof as elements of regiments often served apart or moved at a different time to others and one can't be precise as to months. If you are simply looking for something indicative then these dates do appear to dovetail.
Otherwise Cumbria's Museum http://www.cumbriasmuseumofmilitarylife.org/about-us/our-regiments/55th-regiment/ may be able to help.
MaxD
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Hi Eileen
Muster rolls are the usual way to follow a man's army career. You would have to go to TNA at Kew. Records for the 55th are in WO12.
For the years 1817-18 the reference is WO 12/6486.
There may have been more than one John Evans in the 55th, but yours was a corporal for the last nine years of his fourteen, which should help.
Apparently there are some muster rolls for the 55th, 1815-1816, online on ancestry in British Army Muster Books and Pay Lists, 1812-1817
If you are in doubt about the Jersey baptisms (and I'm not sure that you are!), you could investigate the army births a bit more.
We have
Jane Evans
place Jersey
year 1818
regiment 55th
vol 1088 page 15
If you were to apply to the GRO for this, what exactly would you get? I've absolutely no idea, perhaps Max could help.
John
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A John Evans does come up in the muster roll for the 55th for 1814/15 but these rolls don't say where the battalion is stationed and I think Eileen is content as to his career in the regiment.
Well worth getting the birth cert from the GRO (they are overseas records) jonw65 has given the GRO index reference. This will confirm the parents.
MaxD
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Hello John & Max
I am interested in everything to try and prove this John Evans and will do whatever I am advised with my limited resources.
My great great grandmother Elizabeth Evans was born in Ireland and I still haven't found her. I am planning a trip to the 55th museum in the near future in Kendal. Do they have the muster rolls?
I thought the GRO was for births after 1837/
Eileen
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Certificate - The armed forces births are one of the exceptions
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#Overseas
Museum - muster rolls I supect not as they are, apart from some on Ancestry in the period 1812-1817, and two on FindMyPast for the 60th and the 84th, at the National Archives.
Muster rolls - Attached is firstly the ledger headings from the 1815/1816 register. The register does not record where the battalion was, it does however prove that a Corporal John Evans was serving with the 55th in the period 25 Dec 1815 to 24 Mar 1816 (at the top of the From/to columns). As John has said, one has to look at each half year register in turn following a man from when he is first in the regiment until he no longer appears in the muster rolls.
The John Evans entry, as a Corporal in the next post
MaxD
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Hi
What would be good would be to find out where the 55th were when John Evans married Isabella Skelton.
Either ancestry have indexed the ones they have online only partially, or in an odd way, or I am doing something wrong!
Because Corporal John Evans is featured more times than indexed.
Max, they do tell you where the regiment was stationed! You need to look at the end of each quarter.
I can't give you the exact dates the 55th changed stations.
From those lists for the 55th that are online we can see
25 Dec 1814 - 24 March 1815 list is Chelmsford
25 March 1815 - 24 June 1815 is Brighton
25 June 1815 - 24 Sept 1815 is Brighton
25 Sept 1815 - 24 Dec 1815 is Bristol
25 Dec 1815 - 24 March 1816 is Bristol
25 March 1816 - 24 June 1816 is Bristol
25 June 1816 - 24 Sept 1816 ??
25 Sept 1816 - 24 Dec 1816 is Guernsey
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John - Thank you for that very useful info about the locations (some of which I got from the newspaper trawl). I think it must be me doing something wrong - PM on the way!
Eileen - Can't make John Evans entry small enough to post. Send me your email by PM and I'll do it that way.
MaxD
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It's OK John, got it. It is the vagaries of the Ancestry system that could perhaps (perhaps!!) be better!
To redeem myself a bit, John Evans married Isabella Skelton at All Hallows Barkng on 5th January 1813 (Church of England Marriages and Banns). The regiment were in London according to newspaper reports.
MaxD
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25 June 1816 - 24 Sept 1816 ??
Bristol again!
Takes a bit of getting used to.
To be fair to ancestry, we can browse through the images. Not always possible to do this, or only very slowly page by page, with some of the things on findmypast!
John
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25 June 1815 - 24 Sept 1815 is Brighton
25 Sept 1815 - 24 Dec 1815 is Bristol
Well, this may need further thought
This isn't foolproof as elements of regiments often served apart or moved at a different time to others and one can't be precise as to months.
John Evans was baptized 10 December 1815 in Brighton.
Image here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-69Z2-7R?i=707&cat=214220
Or do we perhaps need to take note of the dates the musters were sent in?
55th Foot
Stationed at Bristol
Quarterly Pay List
25th Sept - 24 Dec 1815
Sent from the Regiment 1 Mar 1816
Can never be sure of anything!
John
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Just noticed another one on the left hand page (170) of that image
Nov 30th 1815, St Nicholas Brighton, Charles Cook was baptized, parents Charles + Francis (sic)
Father a Soldier 55th Regt of Foot. Abode Barracks Church Street
On the next image, same day as John's baptism, 10th December
Elizabeth, daughter of (blank) + Elizabeth H..?
Whoever dad was, he was also in the 55th Foot.
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Can never be sure of anything!
Couldn't agree more!
For illustration from the 55th in the newspapers:
8 May 1815 Two officers fought a duel at Seaford
4 Nov 1815 Men stationed at Lewes take part in an archaeological dig at Wick (!)
16 Dec 1815 Band playing for the arrival of the Queen at Brighton
16 Dec 1815 Change of command at the infantry barracks Brighton
20 Jan 1916 A party of the 55th stationed in Aberystwyth called out to a riot
30 Jan 1816 First division of the 55th depart Brighton for Bristol where they are to embark for Ireland
13 Feb 1816 Part of the 55th arrive in Cork with others
16 Mar 1816 The 55th embarked at Bristol for Waterford
MaxD
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Hello John & Max
Thank you so much for your assistance without it I would have known nothing about the 55th regiment of foot or my Great great great grandfather Corporal John Evans.
They didn't half move about a great deal would his wife and children follow him?
Isabella Skelton his wife I think was born 27 December 1795 parents Richard Skelton and Jane Hetherington. BRAMPTON, CUMBERLAND, ENGLAND. Brampton is only about 9 miles from the 55th HQ at Carlisle. She would have been 18 in the December as she married in January. This age fits with the census of 1841.
At the same church there is a marriage of a Hugh Mitchell & Ann Bell on the 21 October 1812 at Brampton, Cumberland, England. Could Hugh be the same one that was the witness at John and Isabella's marriage in London and also was this the same couple were godparents of Margaret in St Hellier 1817?
So was Hugh Mitchell also with the 55th regiment?
I have also been looking for Margaret ? (couldn't make out her last name) marriage between 1813 and 1817 when she was Margaret Smith godparent to Margaret Evans and the other one being William Smith?
They all seem to be in the same places at the same time. :-\ :-\
Thanks for the Muster roll did I get it right that he was given £90 in lieu of beer and £6.00 for the period?
Thanks again for all your assistance
Eileen
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There is a Hugh Mitchell listed on the 1815/16 muster roll - probably safe to assume that this is the witness and god-parent. Have to see the later rolls to know whether he is the one married in Brampton but persuasive! The regiment were in Carlisle in Oct 1812
Wife and children would have trailed along behind, he would have had to seek permission, only a certain percentage of men were allowed family with them.
Not £90 - a fortune in those days - it is the number of days he received allowance in lieu of beer, don't know the sum but probably pennies only. 6 is the number of pounds in pay he received for the 90 days of the quarter - 90 days at 1 shilling and 4 pence (the per diem column) equals £6.
MaxD
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Hi
My gggg/f also served in the 55th (William Bunn 1811-1885) When he first joined up he was sent to St Helena ( sounds very much like St Helier) Could it be that it's been corrupted over the years. He was then sent to the 55th. Along with various uk postings He was also sent to the Koorg war in India and the first opium war in China. Discharged from Limerick in 1841 to become permanent staff of Wrexham Militia or Denbigh Rifles.
Elaine
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I have just reviewed this post and MaxD your information was superb and so sorry for your families loss. You will be sadly missed.