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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Monday 18 December 17 11:29 GMT (UK)
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Hoping someone with access to the relevant records can help. The last I can find of Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath Higher) is in the 1891 census with his father George Thomas Thorburn and step mother Mary and siblings and step siblings at 8 Abernant terrace, Neath Higher as a brick worker.
I can find no record of his death or a marriage. However, both Ancestry and Findmypast have Thomas George Thorburns on New York Passenger list and possibly him on WW1 draft records Scranton City No 2, Pennsylvania, United States (Thomas George Or Geo). Unfortunately my subscription does not give me access to these records. Hoping someone who does have access can check to see if they might be the same person.
Particularly interested in any family members that may have gone with him (if it is him). His father dies in 1895 and step mother in 1891. I can find his Thorburn siblings in later UK censuses but no obvious record of his step sisters Esther/Hetty Davies (b. 1873), Maria Davies (b.1881) and Elizabeth/Eliza Davies (b. 1883) in post 1891 censuses (all born Llannon/Pontyberem) and therefore wondering if they went with him
Kind regards
Roy
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The WW1 record shows a birth date of 11 Apr 1875 and it says nearest relative Mary A Thorburn same address as himself.
There is a passenger list Liverpool to New York arrival date 4 Sep 1914
Thomas George 39
Cassie J 19 - think it says daughter
This info might help with ruling out if he is your chap.
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In the Pennyslvania Spanish War Compensation records
Thomas G Thorburn born 11 Apr 1876 Wales England
Discharge date 11 Mar 1899
Spouse Mary A Thorburn - widow
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Hello
The Thomas George Thorburn you mention seems to be registered June qtr 1875 at Neath and this fits with the WW! draft on Ancestry so it looks like the right man.
Thomas George Thorburn born April 11 1875
address 310 13th Avenue Scranton City Pens.
Natralised citizen
working Dodge mine
Nearest relative Mary Thorburn same address
Tall, medium build ,brown hair and eyes.
1920 he is foreman at the mine age 44 born Wales ,wife Annia 46 born Wales ,child Ellenor 9 Pensalvania.Mom and Dad are native Welsh speakers.
There arrived 1894 and are living in the same street as the WW1 draft.
In 1910 George is just Thomas Thorburn 35 and his wife is Mary A 38.This time arrived 1896 and 1898.
His widow Mary George Thorburn applies for Spanish American War compensation in 6 Feb 1934 for her husband Thomas G Thorburn dec musician in the 13 Regt Inf Pa volunteered May 10 1898- Mar 11 1899 .She got $100.It has a birth date of 11 April 1876.
He's buried Washwood Cemetery(entry Find a grave )11.10.1929
His wife Mary Ann Thorburn 1876-1964 and daughter Hilda 1900-1901.
Mary Ann d/cert 25 Nov 1877 -20 Apr 1964 parents George George and Jane Davis.
Inf daughter Eleanor of 319 13th Avenue.
I can see passenger lists 1902 and 1914 but he is on his own.(1902 miner married and American citizen )
There is also a arrival 1897 from Liverpool to Ny on Lucania Thomas G Thornurn age 22 on another site but no more details.
Wife Mary Ann George arrives 15 Dec 1897 ,unmarried going to her Aunt Mrs Ann Williams in Scranton.She's on the Britannic from Liverpool to NY.
Sorry if i duplicated but I was typing
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you for all this excellent information, very much appreciated. Can I please just clarify a couple of things:
"Thomas George Thorburn born April 11 1875
address 310 13th Avenue Scranton City Pens.
Natralised citizen
working Dodge mine
Nearest relative Mary Thorburn same address
Tall, medium build ,brown hair and eyes."
Is there a date for the above?
"1920 he is foreman at the mine age 44 born Wales ,wife Annia 46 born Wales ,child Ellenor 9 Pensalvania.Mom and Dad are native Welsh speakers.
There arrived 1894 and are living in the same street as the WW1 draft."
Does it definitely say "Annia", as this does not fit in with Mary Ann? I presume the "Mom and Dad" referred to are her parents (Thomas George's are dead before 1920)
Kind regards
Roy
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"Thomas George Thorburn born April 11 1875
address 310 13th Avenue Scranton City Pens.
Natralised citizen
working Dodge mine
Nearest relative Mary Thorburn same address
Tall, medium build ,brown hair and eyes."
Is there a date for the above?
I believe it says date of registration Sept 12 1918
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Does it definitely say "Annia", as this does not fit in with Mary Ann? I presume the "Mom and Dad" referred to are her parents (Thomas George's are dead before 1920)
I would say it would refer to his parents. Deceased or not the term Welsh speakers would still be a valid answer.
Wife's name definitely ends with an "a" and it says she was born 1874 in Wales.
Could be a nickname for Ann or Annie.
Do we have a marriage for him or did he marry in the US?
Daughter is born in the US 1911
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Copies of WW1 Draft and census for your records - for Thomas George Thorburn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-L1JY-F9H?i=5272&cc=1968530
1910 census Scranton Ward 5, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RJY-9FD?i=14&cc=1727033
1920 census Twelve Street Scranton Ward 5, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RX3-DNK?i=9&cc=1488411
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Thomas O Thorburn - 11 April 1876 Wales - 11 October 1929 Scranton
Lackawanna County
Pennsylvania,
Burial - Washburn Street Cemetery Scranton, Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania. (Buried with full military honours)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141850905
spouse Mary A Thorburn - 18876 - 1964
https://old.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=thorburn&GSiman=1&GScid=46584&GRid=141850959&
daughter Hilda Thorburn - 1900 - 1901
https://old.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=thorburn&GSfn=hilda&GSiman=1&GScid=46584&GRid=141850710&
Death certificate for Thomas shows parents - George Thorburn and Mother Emily Bowen.
Informant Mrs Thomas Thorburn - 319 13 th Avenue - cause of death toxema from 2 nd and 3 rd degree burns of hands, arms and face from mine gas explosion.
Thomas was a section foreman for Glen Alden Coal Co.
Thomas G Thorburn - United States Veterans Administration Pension Payment
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939K-XQ3J-ZJ?i=315&cc=1832324
Scranton Republican has a few articles (subscription site but you can see odd snippets if you play around with it) - Saturday 12 th October 1929 and
also in the Scranton republic Tuesday 15 th October (but you may find others) - scroll down to OCR text for small snippet.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/49321957/
You will also see references to Miss Eleanor Thorburn -
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=eleanor+thorburn&offset=1&t=1838
Sandra
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Mary A Thorburn passed away in 1964 - Miss Eleanor Thorburn was the informant on bher death certificate. Eleanor Thorburn 319 13 th Avenue Sc ranton PA.
Burial Washburn Street Cemetery. Scranton PA - Certificate Number 036449-64
Sandra
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Eleanor Thorburn 8 December 1910 passed away 2 August 1988 - Last Residence 18504 Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania. SSN issued Pennsylvania (1961-1962)
Sandra
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Thanks again for all this brilliant info. Definitely no record of him marrying in the UK, so must have married in the US, but can’t find any record of this either
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Searching through Ancestry I have found him referred to in the Pennsylvania death certificates 1906-1964 and I am led to believe the certificate will include details of his parents, therefore doubly confirming it is him. I presume the same would apply to the death of his wife Mary Ann and therefore help tracing her Welsh ancestry. Does anyone have access to these records on Ancestry?
Kind regards
Roy
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I think Sandra has already found this for you :)
Death 11 October 1929
Father George Thorburn
Mother Emily Bowen
Mary A Thorburn
Death 20 Apr 1964
Father George George
Mother Jane Davis
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There's a marriage in Mar 1869 Neath
3 couples but 2 of the names are
George George
Jane Davies
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I think Sandra has already found this for you :)
Death 11 October 1929
Father George Thorburn
Mother Emily Bowen
Mary A Thorburn
Death 20 Apr 1964
Father George George
Mother Jane Davis
OOPS!
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Not sure about that marriage because a family tree with them on doesn't have a daughter Mary Ann :-\
Around the time she was born there is only a Margaret/Maggie and she is at home 1881/1891/1901.
Although this is interesting - a younger sister Catherine Jane born c1894 ends up guess where in the 1940 US census - Scranton Pennyslvania :D
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Ok there is a daughter Mary Ann George (sorry I was getting confused with the names before :-[ ) but she is older.
Age 10 in 1881 20 in 1891 then ?
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Mary Ann George age 23 passenger list Liverpool to New York in 1892 - pretty sure it says intended destination Scranton.
If she is the right Mary Ann it would make her older. Lost a few years in the US perhaps!
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Wife Mary Ann George arrives 15 Dec 1897 ,unmarried going to her Aunt Mrs Ann Williams in Scranton.She's on the Britannic from Liverpool to NY.
Ciderdrinker
The passenger list on anc - Mary Ann George aged 26 years was going to Aunt Mrs Thos Williams, Hyde Park, Scranton, PA.
This looks like a Williams family at N Hyde Park Ave. Scranton. PA on the 1900 census
Griffeth Williams 49 Born Dec 1850. Imm 1883. Married 1878. Carpenter. NA.
Julia Williams 41 Born August 1858. Imm 1883. Had 2 children.
Thomas Williams 17 Born December 1882 Wales. Imm 1883. Clerk Store.
Owen Williams 6 Born October 1893 PA.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1Z7-D2B?i=9&cc=1325221
Sandra
Added - Or could it be this one - South Main Ave Scranton Ward 6, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania 1900
Thomas William 45 Born Wales. Carpenter. NA. Imm 1882.
Elizabeth William 43
John William 23
Gladis William 11
Gomer William 9
1910 census - Scranton Ward 22, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Thomas Williams 55
Elizabeth Williams 53
Elizabeth M Williams 25
Gomer Williams 19
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Same family in 1910 North Hyde Park Avenue Scranton Ward 4, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRJT-9QN3?i=11&cc=1727033
Julia Williams 49 Born Wales. Widowed.
Owen Williams 16 Born PA. Printer.
Sandra
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WW1 Draft for Owen Williams -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-91VM-L6V?i=326&cc=1968530
Owen Williams - 5 October 1893 - passed away July 1981 - Scranton, Lackawanna, PA.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J2QT-G6B
1920 census - Meridian Street, Scranton Ward 5, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Owen Williams 26
Elisbeth Williams 24
Donald Williams 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRX3-6F8?i=34&cc=1488411
1930 census South Seventh Avenue Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Owen Williams 35
Elizath Williams 33
Ruth Williams 10
Donald Williams 13
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRZC-WTK?i=16&cc=1810731
1940 S Seventh Street Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Owen Williams 43
Donald Williams 22
Ruth Williams 19
Anna Gregory 62 Widowed. Mother-In-Law.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9MY-3J7S?i=11&cc=2000219
Son Donald Robert Williams - 21 June 1917 Scranton, Pennsylvania passed away May 1982 -
Owen Williams - Mother Elizabeth Gregory.
Ruth nee Williams Powell - born 23 April 1920 - passed away 9 May 2006 - Parents - Owen Williams
Mother Bessie Gregory. Last Residence 18508 Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Sandra
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1910 census - Summer Avenue Scranton Ward 4, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania
Thomas G Williams 27 years - Born 1883 - Tyre man. NA.
Mar Williams 29 Born Ireland. Imm 1898. Had 2 children and 2 survive. Married 6 years.
Dorothy Williams 5
Thomas Williams 0
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RJT-9S2R?i=8&cc=1727033
1920 census - N. Sumner Ave. Scranton Ward 4, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Thor Williams 36
Margaret Williams 38
Dorothy Williams 15
Thos Williams 10
Margaret Williams 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXB-N4R?i=5&cc=1488411
1930 census - Lafayette Street Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Thomas G Williams 47
Margaret Williams 48
Dorothy Williams 24
Thomas G Williams 20
Margaret Williams 12
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R8Z-7QH?i=23&cc=1810731
1940 census - N Summer Avenue Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Thomas Williams 57
Margaret Williams 58
Margaret Williams 22 Divorced.
Rosalie Toomey 2 Granddaughter.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9MY-394F?i=15&cc=2000219
Sandra
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Margaret Williams (wife of Thomas Williams Snr) born County Mayo Ireland passed away 16 February 1952 Scranton PA. aged 62 years. Father John Ginnelly. Mother Mary Fahey. Resided 209 S Sumner Avenue Scranton PA.
Burial Cathedral Cemetery - Scranton. Lackawanna. PA.
Sandra
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Going back to reply 19 -
Williams family at N Hyde Park Ave. Scranton. PA on the 1900 census
Griffeth Williams 49 Born Dec 1850. Imm 1883. Married 1878. Carpenter. NA.
Julia Williams 41 Born August 1858. Imm 1883. Had 2 children.
Thomas Williams 17 Born December 1882 Wales. Imm 1883. Clerk Store.
Owen Williams 6 Born October 1893 PA.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1Z7-D2B?i=9&cc=1325221
There is a PA death cert for Julia Williams - 23 January 1942 which gives her age about 79 years - Julia was widowed and the informant was R G Lavelle. Clarks Summit PA.
Burial Washburn St Cemetery
Sandra
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Thursday, November 23, 1899 (Scranton Tribune) (article from Genealogy Bank)
Thomas Thorburn and Miss Mary A George of Bellevue will be united in marriage at 8 o'clock this morning at the home of Thomas Williams on South Main avenue. Rev. D. D. Hopkins will perform the ceremony.
....
Maureen
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Thursday, November 23, 1899 (Scranton Tribune) (article from Genealogy Bank)
Thomas Thorburn and Miss Mary A George of Bellevue will be united in marriage at 8 o'clock this morning at the home of Thomas Williams on South Main avenue. Rev. D. D. Hopkins will perform the ceremony.
....
Maureen
Hmmm interesting...........well done Mo......... ;D
Confused myself which Williams family it was................ ???
Sandra
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Not sure about that marriage because a family tree with them on doesn't have a daughter Mary Ann :-\
Around the time she was born there is only a Margaret/Maggie and she is at home 1881/1891/1901.
Although this is interesting - a younger sister Catherine Jane born c1894 ends up guess where in the 1940 US census - Scranton Pennyslvania :D
Catherine Jane Jones - [Catherine Jane George]
23 December 1894 Wales - 9 May 1954 - Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania. Parents - George George - resided 334 N Sumner Ave. Scranton PA. Informant Mrs E Miller.
Abington Hills Cemetery. South Abington Township Lackawanna PA.
Mother Jane Davis.
334 N Summer Avenue Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania 1940
Gwilym Jones 45 Mining Contractor - Own Business.
Catherine J Jones 46
Gwladys L Jones 21
Sandra
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Gwladys Jones (daughter of above) married 6 May 1946 Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Father Gwilyn Jones and Mother Catherine George - Spouse Ernest Frederick Miller.
Gwladys J Miller - 13 July 1918 passed away 24 June 1985 - Upton MA
Burial - Massachusetts National Cemetery Bourne, Barnstable County, Massachusetts.
PLOT 12, 0, 535
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/995171
husband Ernest F Miller - 27 November 1924 - 4 September 2013
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/175691908/ernest-f.-miller
1930 census No Sumner Avenue Scranton, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania.
Gurlynar Jones 35 Born Wales. Imm 1925. Alien. Carpenter.
Catherine Jones 35 Born Wales. Imm 1925.
Geolodgs Jones 11 Born Wales. Imm 1925.
Hadyn Morris 23 Born Wales. Boarder.
Sandra
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Thank you very much everyone, much more than I could have hoped for :D
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Not sure how your welsh is, but searching the Welsh Newspapers online site shows that Thomas George graduated as Bachelor of Music in 1908 - known as Tom, faithful member of Bethel who joined in all activities, especially singing, left Glynneath in 1897. lost his parents when young and care of the family fell on him. In the US is an eisteddfod adjudicator and leads the singing in the Hyde Park church, Scranton (brief english version mentions he has Kidwelly roots)
Also a report of him and family returning to Resolven and Pontardawe in for a visit in July 1914
A couple of articles from 1914-18 refer to him as Prof Thomas Thorburn
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Not sure how your welsh is, but searching the Welsh Newspapers online site shows that Thomas George graduated as Bachelor of Music in 1908 - known as Tom, faithful member of Bethel who joined in all activities, especially singing, left Glynneath in 1897. lost his parents when young and care of the family fell on him. In the US is an eisteddfod adjudicator and leads the singing in the Hyde Park church, Scranton (brief english version mentions he has Kidwelly roots)
Also a report of him and family returning to Resolven and Pontardawe in for a visit in July 1914
A couple of articles from 1914-18 refer to him as Prof Thomas Thorburn
Very interesting stuff. Can I please ask what search criteria you are using as I am having trouble finding any reference to him. Assuming you are referring to this site http://newspapers.library.wales/ . Thanks
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There are articles on the link I gave in reply 8 - www.newspapers.com - it is a subscription site but if you scroll down to where it says OCR text - you can read snippets of what it says - play around with the words and info and you might be able to piece together more of the articles.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48287513/
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48217849/
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48255046/
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48212414/
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48863107/
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48310206/
Sandra
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yes I'm using http://newspapers.library.wales/ with the search term Thorburn AND Scranton
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Oh well done Maureen for finding the marriage :D
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I think I can help you with information about T G Thorburn, who was my maternal grandmother's first cousin. I have carried out a good deal of research into the Thorburns, and as I write, I have before me several items sent home by him to my grandparents in Glynneath, Wales. The first is a floral postcard with "Wilkes Barre "printed in glitter on it, which bears the message ; "Dear Friends. I suppose you thought I had forgotten you, but I have not. Well we crossed the ocean alright, and are quite settled down once more, but often wish I was in dear old Wales to have our photos taken. With best love to all".
There is a New Year card dated 1911 ; "to cousins Bessie and Ben (my grandparents) with best wishes from cousin Tom and family, Scranton". There is a booklet with photographs of Scranton: also a letter card with 20 colour photos of Scranton, sent in Sept 24, saying on it "If not delivered return to Thorburn 13th St. Scranton". Finally, there is a copy of the words and music of a song he composed entitled "America Blest Land of Freedom" with words by Ivor.C. Parry and T.G. Thorburn; music by Thos. Geo. Thorburn. Dedicated to our National Army and Navy.
The history of Thorburns in South Wales begins with Thomas Thorburn (1805 - 84). He was born in Ashkirk near Selkirk in the Scottish Borders, and died in Kidwelly (Cydweli in Welsh) in Carmarthenshire. I have a letter written by him saying that his father (also Thomas, a cabinet maker) died at sea on his way home from visiting relations in America. Thomas Jr. was a customs and Excise officer. He married in Scotland, but his wife died giving birth to a son, who survived. Thomas then moved several times, coming to Haverford West in Pembrokeshire in 1841, eventually settling in Kidwelly. He married Mary Rees from the town of Cardigan and they had ten children, eight of whom survived into adulthood. One son, Alexander Hamilton Thorburn was my great grandfather, father of my maternal grandmother. A younger son was called George Rees Thorburn. Both of them moved to Glynneath at the top of the Neath Valley in Glamorganshire. Silica-rich limestone was quarried nearby, and there was a brick works Called Abernant Brickworks in Glynneath making silica fire-brick for furnace linings. Alexander was the foreman and George Rees was a worker there. They lived in Abernant Terrace in the row of company houses. George Rees married a lady called Emily (I don't know her surname). They had five children, Sarah Jane, Thomas George (later of Scranton), William Rees, Mary Ann, and David. Apparently, Thomas George and William Rees married two sisters. According to my information, Thomas George went to the USA in 1903.
The family musical talent persisted, and one of David's sons, Aubrey, a noted musician locally, played the organ at my parents' wedding in 1933. My grandmother's brother, another William Rees Thorburn, was also a well known musician in the village.
If I can give you any further information, let me know.
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Wow! Thanks for all this fantastic information. I need to time to read and digest it all. My connection is via George Rees Thorburn. His second wife Mary Bowen was my 2nd great grandmother. Emily/Emiah/Emy (depending on which census you look at) was her sister. George and Emily married in the Llanelly district in 1873, but then quickly moved to Glyn Neath. If you are interested in any more information on the Bowens just let me know.
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I have been studying the various replies to your initial query, along with my own information, and I have built up the history as I see it so far. George Rees Thorburn was born in Haverford West in 1850, being the son of Thomas Thorburn , Excise Officer (orinally from Ashkirk).
He married Emily Bowen , (born ?) (a dressmaker by profession) in 1873. There were 5 children altogether. The first was called Sarah Jane, born 1866 in Carmarthen. (This was pre- the marriage if my dates are correct, when George Rees was about 16 - a youthful fling perhaps?)
The other children were Thomas George Thorburn b 1875/6 : William Rees Thorburn b 1877: Mary Ann Thorburn b 1880: David Thorburn b 1883.
George Rees’ wife Emily died in 1889. He then married the widow, Mary Davies (nee Bowen) who was Emily’s sister. Mary already had three children, Esther/Hetty, b 1873 :Maria b 1881 and Elizabeth/Eliza b 1883;
There is reference to Thomas George returning to New York accompanied by his daughter Cassie (b 1895) in 1914. One presumes that she was the daughter of Thomas George and Mary (i.e. of the second marriage) ? (My mother remembered him coming back to Glynneath for a visit at some time.)
Thomas George emigrated to Scranton sometime in 1897. In the meantime, an unmarried lady called Mary Ann George arrived also in Scranton to stay with the Williams family (her aunt and uncle).
Thomas George and Mary Ann George were married in 1899. They lived in 13th Ave. Scranton. They had a daughter Hilda in 1900, but she died a year later. They had a further daughter Eleanor (b 1910/11, who eventually lived in Lackawanna , and died 1988.)
Thomas George worked as foreman in the mines for The Glen Alden Coal Co. He was badly burned in an explosion in the mine, and died in 1929.
It seems as though Thomas George had served briefly in the US armed forces from May 1898 to March 1899, during something called the Spanish American War (whatever that might have been). In 1934, his widow Mary Ann applied to The Spanish American War compensation fund and was granted $100. Mary Ann Thorburn herself died in 1964, she still lived at 13th Avenue Scranton.
NOTES. (1) I suspect that there may have been another related Thorburn family living at nearby Lackawanna. Could these possibly have been descendants of the relatives of Thomas Thorburn of Ashkirk, the Excise Officer. He said that his father (another Thomas) had died at sea on the way home from visiting relatives in America. Just a thought – no proof!
(2) The business of George Rees marrying his deceased wife’s sister worries me somewhat. Marriage of this sort had been allowed in olden times, but in 1835 it was made illegal by the British Parliament. It remained a controversial topic until a subsequent act in 1907 made it legal again. Could it be that, since Mary Ann Davies had another (married) name by then, the fact that she was Emily’s sister was somehow disguised and glossed over?
Does this suggested history sound plausible to you ?
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Thank you very much for collating all the information. I’ll go through it this week, fill in any blanks I can and get back to you.
Kind regards
Roy
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Amended version part 1
George Rees Thorburn was born in Haverford West in 1850, being the son of Thomas Thorburn, Excise Officer (orinally from Ashkirk).
He married Emy Bowen (a dressmaker by profession) in 1873. Emy Bowen was born 10 Jan 1845, Cillay Fach, Llanddarog, daughter of Thomas Bowen (1803-1857) and Rachel Lodwick/Lott (1806-1894). There is some confusion over Rachel’s surname. In parish records the only marriage that fits is Thomas Bowen to Rachel Lodwick 28Jun1831, Llanddarog, but on the birth certificates for her children her surname is listed as Lott. Emy was 1 of 7 children, Anne (1833), Rachel (1834), David (1837), John (1840), Joanna (1841), Emy (1845) and Mary (1849). Emy’s name varies according to censuses/records to Emily/Emiah/Emy/Emma.
George Rees Thorburn married Emy Bowen, Mar Qtr 1873 in Llanelly district, Llanelly 11a 863 (Marriage entry index has her name as Emma! Bowen). I haven’t obtained the marriage certificate but something it would be useful to do at some stage. There were 5 children altogether. The first was called Sarah Jane, born 1866 in “Carmarthenshire”, Wales. (This was pre- the marriage if my dates are correct, when George Rees was about 16 - a youthful fling perhaps?). As you suggest this was probably a youthful fling and I have been unable to find an appropriate birth match in BMD records.
The other children were Thomas George Thorburn (b 11 Apr 1875 according to American WW1 records). He was born in Glyn Neath according to UK census records (THORBURN, THOMAS GEORGE (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1875 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 645). William Rees Thorburn b 1877 (THORBURN, WILLIAM REES, (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 626: Mary Ann Thorburn b 1880 (THORBURN, MARY ANN (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 560). David Thorburn b 1882 (THORBURN, DAVID (BOWEN), GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 613). David’s actual DOB was 20 Aug 1882 (from 1939 register, assuming I have found the right David).
There was also a Thomas Thorburn who presumably died young: THORBURN, THOMAS (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 577.
George Rees’ wife Emily died in 8 Nov 1889. He then married the widow, Mary Davies (nee Bowen) who was Emily’s sister. Mary already had 8 children in total with her first husband Joseph Davies, three of which moved with her to Glyn Neath: Esther/Hetty, b 18 May 1873 in Llannon :Maria b 27 April 1881 and Elizabeth/Eliza b 13 February 1883 in Pontyberem;
George (died 08 Jun 1895), Emily (listed as Emily on Gravestone) and Mary (died 19 Aug 1891) are buried together in Bethel Chapel Glyn Neath (I have a copy of the gravestone picture)
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Amended version part 2
There are various reference to Thomas George Thorburn arriving Ellis Island, one in 1897, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G1DC-9RQW?i=347&cc=1368704 and one in 1902 (but listed as George Thomas) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-G3MP-H?i=718&cc=1368704. There is also reference to Thomas George returning to New York accompanied by his daughter Cassie (age 19, b 1895) in 1914 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TF-WJNB?i=892&cc=1368704).
One presumes that she was the daughter of Thomas George and Mary (i.e. of the second marriage)? (My mother remembered him coming back to Glyn Neath for a visit at some time.). Are you mixing up George Rees Thorburn and Thomas George Thorburn? No records indicating Thomas George marrying twice, however, if Cassie J (born 1895) is his daughter then he must have. Though, I can find no record of Thomas George Thorburn marrying in the UK, or the registration of birth of Cassie J Thornurn in UK. Maybe she was illegitimate
Thomas George Thorburn born April 11 1875 (Reference https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-L1JY-F9H?i=5272&cc=1968530), address 310 13th Avenue Scranton City Pens, according to the registration card.
Natralised citizen
working Dodge mine
Nearest relative Mary Thorburn same address
Tall, medium build ,brown hair and eyes.
It looks like Thomas George emigrated to Scranton sometime in 1897. In the meantime, an unmarried lady called Mary Ann George arrived also in Scranton to stay with the Williams family (her aunt and uncle).
Thomas George and Mary Ann George were married in 1899 (Thursday, November 23, 1899 (Scranton Tribune) (article from Genealogy Bank). Thomas Thorburn and Miss Mary A George of Bellevue will be united in marriage at 8 o'clock this morning at the home of Thomas Williams on South Main avenue. Rev. D. D. Hopkins). They lived in 13th Ave. Scranton. They had a daughter Hilda in 1900, but she died a year later. They had a further daughter Eleanor (b 1910/11, who eventually lived in Lackawanna , and died 1988.)
Thomas George worked as foreman in the mines for The Glen Alden Coal Co. He was badly burned in an explosion in the mine, and died in 1929 (Death certificate for Thomas shows parents - George Thorburn and Mother Emily Bowen. Informant Mrs Thomas Thorburn - 319 13 th Avenue - cause of death toxema from 2nd and 3rd degree burns of hands, arms and face from mine gas explosion).
It seems as though Thomas George had served briefly in the US armed forces from May 1898 to March 1899, during something called the Spanish American War (whatever that might have been). In 1934, his widow Mary Ann applied to The Spanish American War compensation fund and was granted $100. Mary Ann Thorburn herself died in 1964, she still lived at 13th Avenue Scranton.
NOTES. (1) I suspect that there may have been another related Thorburn family living at nearby Lackawanna. Could these possibly have been descendants of the relatives of Thomas Thorburn of Ashkirk, the Excise Officer. He said that his father (another Thomas) had died at sea on the way home from visiting relatives in America. Just a thought – no proof!
(2) The business of George Rees marrying his deceased wife’s sister worries me somewhat. Marriage of this sort had been allowed in olden times, but in 1835 it was made illegal by the British Parliament. It remained a controversial topic until a subsequent act in 1907 made it legal again.
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Newspaper extracts relating to Thomas George Thorburn
Searching Welsh Newspapers online under Thorburn AND Scranton
Welsh Newspapers online site (in Welsh) shows that Thomas George graduated as Bachelor of Music in 1908 - known as Tom, faithful member of Bethel who joined in all activities, especially singing, left Glynneath in 1897. lost his parents when young and care of the family fell on him. In the US is an eisteddfod adjudicator and leads the singing in the Hyde Park church, Scranton (brief English version mentions he has Kidwelly roots)
There is also a report of him and family returning to Resolven and Pontardawe in for a visit in July 1914
A couple of articles from 1914-18 refer to him as Prof Thomas Thorburn
The Welshman 20 Mar 1908
Mr. T .G. Thorburn, of Scranton, U.S.A., hasse- cured the degree of Mus. Bac. U.S.A. Mr. Thorhum comes of Kidwelly parentage, but before his departure to the states lived 'at Glyn Neath, where he was the tutor to a number of musical students, many of whom have attained considerable distinction. Mr. Thorbutnn has a good many relatives reaiding at Kidwelly now
October 12, 1908
The Scranton Republican from Scranton, Pennsylvania • Page 7
Prof. Jones sang another solo; Mr. Williams gave a recitation; Prof. Thorburn played a selection on the piano and Tom Abrams sang "Mona," Mr. Humphrey and Rev.' Mr. Griffith each followed with addresses during which they paid a tribute to the people of Scranton for the treatment they had received while , here. Prof. Harri E. Jones sang "Rocked In the Cradle of the Deep," as but few can sing that favorite selection, and Mr. Williams favored the assemblage with another recitation. During the evening refreshments were served by Mrs. Davis assisted by Mrs. Edward Roberts and Mrs. Margaret Thomas. The meeting came to a close with Prof. Jones singing "Hen Wlad fy Nhadau" all joining in the chorus. Prof. Thorburn was the accompanist of the evening. Those present were; Mr. Richard Humphrey and Rev. J. W. Griffith, of Buffalo; Mr. and Mrs. Walter Reese, of the North End; Mr. and Mrs. Edward Roberts, Prof. Harri E. Jones,Thomas Abrams, D. J. Williams, Prof. Thomas Thorburn, Mr. and Mrs. W. J.Davies, Mrs. Margaret Thomas. Miss Edith Roberts, Mrs. W. H. Fuller, MiltonDavies, Percy Thomas, Wilford Thomas, Eugene Fuller and Master Everett Davies.
October 19, 1929
The Scranton Republican from Scranton,Pennsylvania • Page 17
In the death of Thomas George Thorburn, Scranton has lost a musician of prominence. Not that he was active in the performance or the promotion of music during his later years, but that he acted in an advisory capacity to many of our leaders and vocalists, Mr. Thorburn has acquired the art of listening, and to form a sane and sound judgment on the performances of others. His opinion and advice was therefore sought, and his analyst; was generally found to be correct. Of a retiring disposition, he found a Joy and solace In composition. A few years ago he interested the writer In some compositions of his own which showed much originality and an unquestioned gift for melody. The: included choruses, vocal solos and hymn - tunes. and only Mr. Thorburns own reticence kept these deserving works from becoming (thenroDertv or the musical puouc??). Some years ago he was the director of music at the First Welsh Baptist church and while there the church choir under his direction presented several cantatas, and on one occasion an abridged version of Mendelssohn oratorio. "Saint Paul. Occasionally he served as an eisteddfod adjudicator, and he had been selected for that position at the North Scranton eisteddfod which will be held Oct. 29. Mr. 'Thornburn was born in Wales, and at an early age received the advanced certificate of the London Tonn Solfa college.He had been a resident of Scranton for thirty - two years.
October 15, 1929
The Scranton Republican from Scranton,Pennsylvania • Page 15
Thomas G. Thorburn. Full military honors were given Thomas G. Thorburn, 319 Thirteenth avenue yesterday afternoon at funeral services held from the late home. A large delegation of the Veterans of Foreign Wars was present and conducted services at the grave in the Washburn Street Cemetery. The Rev. Dr. T. T. Richards, pastor of the First Welsh Baptist Church, and the Rev. Dr. John Mattes, pastor of St. John's Lutheran church officiated. The casket bearers were: David Jamas, Thomas Davis. Chester Thomas Jonn Redmond, W. A. Morgan, William Edwards, and David Williams. To Serve Lunches The Ladies' Aid society, of the First Welsh Baptist church, will entertain at a noonday luncheon tomorrow In the church parlors. Mrs. George Wettling is in charge.
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Hi regarding the Thorburn brothers that moved to Glynneath, George Rees Thorburn was my husbands Great Grandfather, we have been researching since 2005 and Thomas Thorburn Excise Officer has been on the back burner most of that time, we have his Excise Entry papers and have just ordered Excise entry papers for his first son Gavin James Hamilton b abt 1826 (d1852 Carmarthen)by Joanna Hamilton d 1827 aged 17 Ashkirk, where her father Gavin James Hamilton was the vicar. This information is not entirely relevant but Thomas Thorburn and parents are a mystery. We may have had a breakthrough just by accident we has found a Thomas Thorburn who died in Guyana in The Americas in 1814 aged 30 is this any connection to the letter previously mentioned?
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Hi regarding the Thorburn brothers that moved to Glynneath, George Rees Thorburn was my husbands Great Grandfather, we have been researching since 2005 and Thomas Thorburn Excise Officer has been on the back burner most of that time, we have his Excise Entry papers and have just ordered Excise entry papers for his first son Gavin James Hamilton b abt 1826 (d1852 Carmarthen)by Joanna Hamilton d 1827 aged 17 Ashkirk, where her father Gavin James Hamilton was the vicar. This information is not entirely relevant but Thomas Thorburn and parents are a mysteryWe have come across a Thomas Thorburn d1814 aged 30 in Guyana the Americas is this the father of Thomas Thorburn mentioned in the latter?