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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 15:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 15:09 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone would be able to identify the place name in the attached photo?

It's from the 1881 England Census and I can't work out what or where this place is?

It looks like a Lansamarth but I can't find such a place.

Family history seems to point to it being in Monmouthshire but I can't find anything else relating to it.

It relates to the birth place of a David Johns, plasterer, aged 42.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 15:18 GMT (UK)
It could be a mis-spelled Llanmartin

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanmartin


Gadget

Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Glynm on Tuesday 26 December 17 16:37 GMT (UK)
He was living with his wife Josepha in Bedminster, Bristol in the 1891 Census RG12/1948/49/7 and his birth place looks like Llanharan, Glamorgan.

Glyn
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 16:51 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I have seen that David Johns, Glynm.

Unfortunately it isn't him. The other 1881 census record is correct, as it has all the children, Llewellyn who I am descended from.
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 16:52 GMT (UK)
1881 - RG11/2456/109/32

coder has written Anglesey in right column!

snip ~
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 16:53 GMT (UK)
Sorry - I followed Glyn's info so my snip is not him!
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 16:59 GMT (UK)
jdchisim ~

Can you give more details of your 1881 info - the ref or  where they're living.  It might be possible to compare writing style if we can look at more of the page.
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Glynm on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:10 GMT (UK)
Senior moment on my part Gadget. I meant 1891 not 1881. the 1881 Census is RG11/2456/109/32. Both in Bedminster.

Glyn
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:13 GMT (UK)
Yep - I snipped the 1881, Glyn - we all have senior moments  ;D

I'm not sure which one is the one the OP refers to as the ones with a Llewellyn don't seem to match - unless it's not on the 1881  :-\

Gadget
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:14 GMT (UK)
They are in portishead in 1881, but given the problem I am having finding anything it may not help.

I can find a christening for a Windsor john in portishead on Familysearch, also a christening for llewellyn johns in portishead, with residence place given as Cheddar.

I assume llewellyn is the Helbyon in the 1881.


Mike

Added, I can’t find birth registration or a marriage
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks Mike

RG11/2464/40/3

It's not an L - more like a T or S


Gadget
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:38 GMT (UK)
1871 has POB as South Wales, occ plasterer & tyler

RG10
Piece number   2518
Folio   44
Page   20

Cas
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:43 GMT (UK)
Think this maybe the birth reg of Windsor, 1871 says born says South Wales

Births Dec Q 1868   
JOHN    Windsor        Pontypridd    11a   309   

JOHN, WINDSOR       mmn NEEDS     
GRO Reference: 1868  D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 309
 
Cas 
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 December 17 17:59 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann Need marriage in Axbridge 1862 with David John on the same page.
Axbridge was reg. district for Cheddar.
Marriage cert. might help

We may be finding things the OP already knows

Mike
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 19:30 GMT (UK)
Following census it is very likely that David was son of Rees & Anne. Think the POB in 1881 is Llansannor, with a squiggle at the end.

1851 age 12 born Llansannor Glam also has a brother Llewellyn 2 yr younger, living Llantrisant, Glam

1861 age 21 with family he is a Tyler b Llantrisant, living Llantrisant.

1871 in Llantrisant for his widowed mother has a George Needs lodger age 22 born Somerset they are in the Pontypridd reg district where Winsor was registered. Brother Nathaniel age 20 is a plasterer.

Family mostly go by surname John -

Cas
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 December 17 19:43 GMT (UK)
You deserve a mince pie after those finds Cas :) :) ;)

Mike
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 19:49 GMT (UK)
You deserve a mince pie after those finds Cas :) :) ;)

Mike

Merry Xmas Mike  :)

The census seems to follow and fit, with family names and occ, but OP may have more info to confirm or discount.

Cas
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 December 17 19:50 GMT (UK)
Well done, Cas  :)

I think you deserve a night out rather than just a mince pie  ;D

Gadget
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 19:58 GMT (UK)
Well done, Cas  :)

I think you deserve a night out rather than just a mince pie  ;D

Gadget

Merry Xmas Gadget  :)

Few nights off after working over Xmas. Too tired to go out, don't like mince pies either. Some chocolate will do  :D
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 20:15 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann remarries so David died. Can be found on census in Portishead with William and her youngest dau Amy age 9 also his children.

Marriages Jun Q 1889   
Jenkins    William        Bedminster    5c   1183    
Johns    Mary Ann        Bedminster    5c   1183    

Cas


 
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 20:34 GMT (UK)
Wow. I kind of wasn't expecting this to have blown up like it did.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about Wales as no one else in my family tree comes from there.

The Llewellyn mentioned moved to Ireland, then left Ireland for America, got married and had one child then moved back to Ireland where he died. The Welsh connection is a bit of a loss to me.

The only record I have to connect is this: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Belfast_East/Alexander/143250/

Which shows him in Clevedon, England. Which lead myself to the record in Bedminister with Mary Ann, him and his other siblings.

The only thing I know about him is that he apparently spoke of a connection to Monmouthshire and that he was a fluent Welsh speaker. All of which is pretty unreliable information.

I will have to take a look at these records. I am not hugely familiar with where to find Welsh records as I am based in Ireland but I will take a look at the references you have provided.

Also, yes the Helbyon is Llewellyn. It's a particularly poor interpretation - though I couldn't read the place names!

The record I referred to and snipped that from was the one showing them at 1 Slade Road, Portishead.

Many thanks everyone for the help.
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 20:50 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann second husband was from Monmouthshire.

You would need to obtain his marriage cert to confirm if father David.

Cas
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 26 December 17 21:03 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage on familysearch for Agnes Hamilton Johns 1916 in British Columbia, Canada, it gives her father as Llewellyn so is the correct 1911 Ireland census
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 21:14 GMT (UK)
That's great!

Many thanks again!
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 27 December 17 12:07 GMT (UK)
There is a service record that names his father as David, discharged due to desertion.

Llewellyn Oliver Johns
Birth year   1867
Birth parish   Portishead, Somerset
Service number   1064
Attestation date   23 Jan 1885
Attestation age years   18 & 8 mths
Attestation service number   1064
Attestation corps   Prince Albert'S (Somersetshire Light Infantry)
Discharge corps   Prince Albert'S (Somersetshire Light Infantry)
Document type   Attestation
Series   Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Archive   The National Archives
Archive reference   WO 97
Box   3168
Box record number   92
Record set   British Army Service Records

Think he also goes by the name Lewis, there is a passenger list in 1895 travelling alone or back to the states as a plasterer.

Also think there may have been more children before Stewart. There is a 1890 birth for a Mary Louise Johns with parents Lewis & Ellen Johns. Also a birth and death for a Lewis A Johns 1891, In Philly USA on familysearch, but may not be connected. Date of marriage needed.

1901 Irish census Stewart is with Hamilton family in Tyrone.

Cas
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: jdchisim on Wednesday 27 December 17 13:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this.

Whereabouts did you see the passenger record? I am not familiar with this record?

Stewart Johns, is my great grandfather. Also thanks again for that Wales stuff. I was able to track them back to the early 18th century. In the same area.
Title: Re: Welsh Place Name 1881 England Census
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 27 December 17 13:55 GMT (UK)
Lewis Johns
Age   29
Birth year   1866
Marital status   M
Occupation   PLASTERER
Departure year   1895
Departure day   28
Departure month   9
Departure port   Southampton
Destination port   New York
Destination country   United States
Ship name   Paris

1841 Rees, Ann & David age 2 in Lansannor enumerated as Jones. Also think Rees marries as Jones, Dec Q 1838 to Ann Griffith. 

Records on FindMyPast also some from Irish roots of him travelling as Llewellyn

Cas