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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: jdchisim on Tuesday 26 December 17 15:09 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone would be able to identify the place name in the attached photo?
It's from the 1881 England Census and I can't work out what or where this place is?
It looks like a Lansamarth but I can't find such a place.
Family history seems to point to it being in Monmouthshire but I can't find anything else relating to it.
It relates to the birth place of a David Johns, plasterer, aged 42.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
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It could be a mis-spelled Llanmartin
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanmartin
Gadget
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He was living with his wife Josepha in Bedminster, Bristol in the 1891 Census RG12/1948/49/7 and his birth place looks like Llanharan, Glamorgan.
Glyn
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Thanks everyone for the replies.
I have seen that David Johns, Glynm.
Unfortunately it isn't him. The other 1881 census record is correct, as it has all the children, Llewellyn who I am descended from.
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1881 - RG11/2456/109/32
coder has written Anglesey in right column!
snip ~
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Sorry - I followed Glyn's info so my snip is not him!
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jdchisim ~
Can you give more details of your 1881 info - the ref or where they're living. It might be possible to compare writing style if we can look at more of the page.
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Senior moment on my part Gadget. I meant 1891 not 1881. the 1881 Census is RG11/2456/109/32. Both in Bedminster.
Glyn
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Yep - I snipped the 1881, Glyn - we all have senior moments ;D
I'm not sure which one is the one the OP refers to as the ones with a Llewellyn don't seem to match - unless it's not on the 1881 :-\
Gadget
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They are in portishead in 1881, but given the problem I am having finding anything it may not help.
I can find a christening for a Windsor john in portishead on Familysearch, also a christening for llewellyn johns in portishead, with residence place given as Cheddar.
I assume llewellyn is the Helbyon in the 1881.
Mike
Added, I can’t find birth registration or a marriage
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Thanks Mike
RG11/2464/40/3
It's not an L - more like a T or S
Gadget
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1871 has POB as South Wales, occ plasterer & tyler
RG10
Piece number 2518
Folio 44
Page 20
Cas
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Think this maybe the birth reg of Windsor, 1871 says born says South Wales
Births Dec Q 1868
JOHN Windsor Pontypridd 11a 309
JOHN, WINDSOR mmn NEEDS
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 309
Cas
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Mary Ann Need marriage in Axbridge 1862 with David John on the same page.
Axbridge was reg. district for Cheddar.
Marriage cert. might help
We may be finding things the OP already knows
Mike
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Following census it is very likely that David was son of Rees & Anne. Think the POB in 1881 is Llansannor, with a squiggle at the end.
1851 age 12 born Llansannor Glam also has a brother Llewellyn 2 yr younger, living Llantrisant, Glam
1861 age 21 with family he is a Tyler b Llantrisant, living Llantrisant.
1871 in Llantrisant for his widowed mother has a George Needs lodger age 22 born Somerset they are in the Pontypridd reg district where Winsor was registered. Brother Nathaniel age 20 is a plasterer.
Family mostly go by surname John -
Cas
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You deserve a mince pie after those finds Cas :) :) ;)
Mike
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You deserve a mince pie after those finds Cas :) :) ;)
Mike
Merry Xmas Mike :)
The census seems to follow and fit, with family names and occ, but OP may have more info to confirm or discount.
Cas
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Well done, Cas :)
I think you deserve a night out rather than just a mince pie ;D
Gadget
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Well done, Cas :)
I think you deserve a night out rather than just a mince pie ;D
Gadget
Merry Xmas Gadget :)
Few nights off after working over Xmas. Too tired to go out, don't like mince pies either. Some chocolate will do :D
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Mary Ann remarries so David died. Can be found on census in Portishead with William and her youngest dau Amy age 9 also his children.
Marriages Jun Q 1889
Jenkins William Bedminster 5c 1183
Johns Mary Ann Bedminster 5c 1183
Cas
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Wow. I kind of wasn't expecting this to have blown up like it did.
Unfortunately, I know nothing about Wales as no one else in my family tree comes from there.
The Llewellyn mentioned moved to Ireland, then left Ireland for America, got married and had one child then moved back to Ireland where he died. The Welsh connection is a bit of a loss to me.
The only record I have to connect is this: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Belfast_East/Alexander/143250/
Which shows him in Clevedon, England. Which lead myself to the record in Bedminister with Mary Ann, him and his other siblings.
The only thing I know about him is that he apparently spoke of a connection to Monmouthshire and that he was a fluent Welsh speaker. All of which is pretty unreliable information.
I will have to take a look at these records. I am not hugely familiar with where to find Welsh records as I am based in Ireland but I will take a look at the references you have provided.
Also, yes the Helbyon is Llewellyn. It's a particularly poor interpretation - though I couldn't read the place names!
The record I referred to and snipped that from was the one showing them at 1 Slade Road, Portishead.
Many thanks everyone for the help.
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Mary Ann second husband was from Monmouthshire.
You would need to obtain his marriage cert to confirm if father David.
Cas
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There is a marriage on familysearch for Agnes Hamilton Johns 1916 in British Columbia, Canada, it gives her father as Llewellyn so is the correct 1911 Ireland census
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That's great!
Many thanks again!
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There is a service record that names his father as David, discharged due to desertion.
Llewellyn Oliver Johns
Birth year 1867
Birth parish Portishead, Somerset
Service number 1064
Attestation date 23 Jan 1885
Attestation age years 18 & 8 mths
Attestation service number 1064
Attestation corps Prince Albert'S (Somersetshire Light Infantry)
Discharge corps Prince Albert'S (Somersetshire Light Infantry)
Document type Attestation
Series Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Archive The National Archives
Archive reference WO 97
Box 3168
Box record number 92
Record set British Army Service Records
Think he also goes by the name Lewis, there is a passenger list in 1895 travelling alone or back to the states as a plasterer.
Also think there may have been more children before Stewart. There is a 1890 birth for a Mary Louise Johns with parents Lewis & Ellen Johns. Also a birth and death for a Lewis A Johns 1891, In Philly USA on familysearch, but may not be connected. Date of marriage needed.
1901 Irish census Stewart is with Hamilton family in Tyrone.
Cas
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Thanks for this.
Whereabouts did you see the passenger record? I am not familiar with this record?
Stewart Johns, is my great grandfather. Also thanks again for that Wales stuff. I was able to track them back to the early 18th century. In the same area.
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Lewis Johns
Age 29
Birth year 1866
Marital status M
Occupation PLASTERER
Departure year 1895
Departure day 28
Departure month 9
Departure port Southampton
Destination port New York
Destination country United States
Ship name Paris
1841 Rees, Ann & David age 2 in Lansannor enumerated as Jones. Also think Rees marries as Jones, Dec Q 1838 to Ann Griffith.
Records on FindMyPast also some from Irish roots of him travelling as Llewellyn
Cas