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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: lucymags on Wednesday 27 December 17 08:27 GMT (UK)
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This one may be insoluble, but anyway, here goes...
Thomas Bashforth marries Elizabeth Hammond 1 April 1810 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2WG-1MW) and they have Sabina (13 Oct 1810), Mary Ann (1817), Ezra (1825) and James (1828) - so she's obviously pregnant when they get married, and has her last child 18 years later.
This much seems to be confirmed by IGI records shown here: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/L4BZ-1BP - which also (under sources) shows that the Thomas baptised in 1788, parents William and Martha is NOT a match - despite having a sibling called Sabina. https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/M5Y9-GMF. I don't know how this was determined, but if this is so, then the only other Thomas which comes near matching is this one, son of William and Mary, baptised 1783, making him about 27 at the time of marriage: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3NM-SZ6.
I skimmed through the GRO death records but couldn't find anything matching a 1783 birth for Thomas.
I can find no Elizabeth Hammond in Sheffield, and although quite a few in Yorks., there's no way of definitively linking one of them with this one.
No Bashforth family matching any of them turn up in the 1841 Census, (not a single Bashforth on FreeCen, and none matching on the Sheffield Indexers database). I had a look around the Sheffield Family History society website but couldn't see anything further.
I looked through GRO deaths for Elizabeth and the most likely ones are these two (none in Sheffield):
BASHFORTH, ELIZABETH 60
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 79
Born 1793-4 (marries 16-17)
BASHFORTH, ELIZABETH 66
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION Volume 09C Page 65
Born 1788-9 (marries 21, last child 40ish)
The son James is in Cape Town by 1854, marries an English-born woman there (born Richmond, Surrey) and calls his sons Thomas and William and his daughter Ann. No sign of any of his siblings or parents there though, so I am assuming that he migrated alone. Can't see anything useful on FindMyPast or Ancestry searches.
So - have I reached the end of this search, at least online, or are there any sources as yet untapped which could help? The only way forward I can see at this point is to pay for one of those Elizabeth Bashforth death records, but that would be a last resort and I don't know if worth doing, as nothing else seems to add weight to either of them being the right one...
???
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Thomas Bashforth marries Elizabeth Hammond 1 April 1810 and they have
Sabina (13 Oct 1810),
Mary Ann (1817),
Ezra (1825)
James (1828)
- so she's obviously pregnant when they get married, and has her last child 18 years later.
Have you discounted these baptisms at St Peter & St Paul, Sheffield (Cathedral church)
Thomas Bashforth born 2 Dec 1813 bapt 13 Mar 1814 parents Thomas & Elizabeth
Elizabeth Bashforth born 30 Nov 1819 bapt 7 Jan 1823 parents Thomas & Elizabeth (occ Haft presser)
William Bashforth born 12 Apr 1821 bapt 20 May 1821 parents Thomas & Elizabeth (occ Haft presser)
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Trying to get some background :-\
Is this your Thomas with a second wife- the occupation matches
1851
Thomas Bashforth 62 Haft & Scale Presser born Sheffield
Eliza Bashforth 55 bn Tamworth, Staffordshire
Catharine Bashforth Dtr 15 bn Sheffield
Frederic Wall Step Son 29 bn Chesterfield
Mary Wall Step Daughter 27 bn Chesterfield
Eliza Wall Step Daughter 25 bn Ecclesall Bierlow
HO107 / 2336 f51 p7
Thomas Bashford married Elizabeth Wall 18 aug 1834 - both widowed
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Burial 11 March 1830 St George, Sheffield -Elizabeth wife of Thomas Bashforth age 40 abode Allen Street
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Family in 1841 - HO107 / 1334 bk5 f23 p6
Wm Bashforth 26 occ Presser
James 14
Catherine 6
ELIZA 45 (not bn in county)
Elizt 20
Frederic Wall 20 (not bn in county)
Eliza Wall 15 (not bn in county)
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Have you discounted these baptisms at St Peter & St Paul, Sheffield (Cathedral church)
Thomas Bashforth born 2 Dec 1813 bapt 13 Mar 1814 parents Thomas & Elizabeth
Elizabeth Bashforth born 30 Nov 1819 bapt 7 Jan 1823 parents Thomas & Elizabeth (occ Haft presser)
William Bashforth born 12 Apr 1821 bapt 20 May 1821 parents Thomas & Elizabeth (occ Haft presser)
No - I haven't come across those before, I don't think, and can't see them on FamilySearch now... Where did you find them, Rosie?
I did hit upon a possible family connection with Elizabeth though - IF this is her marrying in 1865 (which makes her 42, a bit old for a first marriage): https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D7G-XYW. There is an Alfred Hammond (i.e. her mmn) listed on the record.
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Burial 4 Feb 1870 All Saints, Ecclesall Bierlow --Thomas Bashforth of Wentworth Terrace -age 81
F M P have images for some Sheffield PR's
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Family in 1841 - HO107 / 1334 bk5 f23 p6
Wm Bashforth 26 occ Presser
James 14
Catherine 6
ELIZA 45 (not bn in county)
Elizt 20
Frederic Wall 20 (not bn in county)
Eliza Wall 15 (not bn in county)
Ah, okay - those seem to match up with the 1841 Sheffield Indexers' records then:
Bashforth, Catherine of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 6 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 22b, enumeration district 11.)
Bashforth, Eliza of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 45 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 22b, enumeration district 11.)
Bashforth, Elizabeth of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 20 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 22b, enumeration district 11.)
Bashforth, James of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 14 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 22b, enumeration district 11.)
Bashforth, William of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 26 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 22b, enumeration district 11.)
and
Wall, Eliza of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 16 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 23a, enumeration district 11.)
Wall, Frederick of Upperthorpe, Nether Hallam. Aged 20 years.
(Piece #1334/5, folio 23a, enumeration district 11.)
- although couldn't find these on FreeCen and haven't yet come across Thomas' occupation anywhere. But I wonder where Thomas was in 1841?
And these seem to match the 1851, with Catherine the extra child, so that burial of Elizabeth Hammond and second marriage to Elizabeth Wall all lines up too. Were they all in Sheffield in 1851?
That's fabulous - thank you so much! I'm in Australia so going to be signing off for the night soon, (perhaps after building a few more records based on the info you've provided first), but that certainly gives this branch a major boost.
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Oh and I've just noticed this 1861 Census record on FS, in Eccleshall:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7KL-174
Thomas Bashforth Head M 73 Eccleshall, Yorkshire
Eliza Bashforth Wife F 65 Tamworth, Staffordshire
Mary Wall Stepdaughter F 38 Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Eliza Wall Stepdaughter F 35 Eccleshall, Yorkshire
Catherine A Bashforth Daughter F 26 Sheffield, Yorkshire
and then the death notice for this Thomas could be that GRO one I previously discounted, here on FS: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JN2-XPN - Ecclesall Bierlow, aged 81. But that makes him born approx. 1789, which matches the christening of the other William & Martha couple's son called Thomas...???
This is a bit confusing - I will have to see if I can manage to work it out.
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Thomas's occupation on childrens baptisms is Haft presser or similar
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPMY-K3L
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Thomas's occupation on childrens baptisms is Haft presser or similar
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPMY-K3L
Oh, thanks for that. I must have missed these on my first round because I saw Walls and discounted them, I think.
Can you see the occupations on the first four children I mentioned (Sabina, Ezra, James, Mary Ann)?
Another bit of learning for me for today:
"Haft Presser - Employed in the Sheffield cutlery industry pressing bone/horn into knife handles (hafts). 19c."
Edit: And having just looked up Nether Hallam, am further informed: "HALLAM (NETHER), a township and a sub-district in Sheffield parish and Ecclesall-Bierlow district, W. R. Yorkshire." - so I will take these place names into account when I start re-checking those death records tomorrow.
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Sabina (13 Oct 1810), - occ Presser
Mary Ann (1817), -Haft presser
Ezra (1825) - Presser
James (1828) -Haft presser
Thomas Bashforth 1813 -Aft (sic) presser
Elizabeth Bashforth 1819 (occ Haft presser)
William Bashforth 1821 (occ Haft presser)
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I wonder why the 1788 Thomas - parents William & Martha was disregarded :-\
I will come back to this later while you are sleeping - try not to think about it or you will be lying awake :)
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I wonder why the 1788 Thomas - parents William & Martha was disregarded :-\
I will come back to this later while you are sleeping - try not to think about it or you will be lying awake :)
Yes, I don't know - no reason given, but it shows that someone decided this in 2013: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/possible-duplicates/L4BZ-1BP. Perhaps I'll try messaging him tomorrow if something doesn't become apparent.
Thanks for all of your help, Rosie. When I come back to it with fresh eyes tomorrow and review all of the new information, something may leap out at me, or I may find something by searching on the new leads you have provided, so please don't feel that you must spend more time on it. I must get to bed and read my book for a while so that I'm not lying awake puzzling over this! :)
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F M P have images for some Sheffield PR's
What are PR's, Rosie (or anyone)?
I have been slowly building the profiles for this tree and so far it seems to point to this Thomas being the 1788 one. When I have finished adding all of the details and evidence, I will email the FS person and ask if they can look at my tree on Geni and see what they think.
I have also speculatively added Temple as Eliza Wall's birth name, this being the only birth in Tamworth in 1795 that matches. I haven't found a marriage record to a Mr Wall, so if anyone can shed any further light on this or other possibilities, that would be good - but I'm not too fussed about that branch of the family so not serious if not found.
(My time on this might be patchy over the next day or two, but will update you with any further findings or insights.)
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Sorry, Parish registers. Another abbreviation we tend to use is BT's which are the Bishops transcipts of the parish registers
I did look again at this yesterday but progressed no further with Thomas.
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There is a burial at the Cathedral
William Wall - 7 October 1829 -occ publican -abode Allen Street
Thomas Bashforths first wifes burial also had the abode as Allen street :-\
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There is a burial for an Ezra Bashforth on 16 June 1825 in Sheffield. He is described as an infant and father is Thomas Bashforth, a Cutler.
Emeltom
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Baptism at Chesterfield for Frederic Wall parents William & Eliza
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN5V-5M6
Possible marriage at Chesterfield in 1820 William Wall and Eliza Allison
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNZT-6JH
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Sorry, Parish registers. Another abbreviation we tend to use is BT's which are the Bishops transcipts of the parish registers
I did look again at this yesterday but progressed no further with Thomas.
Ah, of course, thanks for that.
Having looked at the FS "Possible duplicates" screen, I have now made changes to make the other two that were there as not a match (one too young, the other too old), and submitted a "May be a match" for the 1788 Thomas, after messaging the person who labelled it not a match. I'm still slightly confused about how their procedures work, but I'll have to come back to that one. In the meantime I am going to build Martha (Mary) and William as his parents and assume the 1788 baptism.
Ah - now I also see your later posts, thanks very much for the extra info. :) I will have to come back to that another time.
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Familysearch trees are mainly used by members of the LDS church so they can 'baptise' the dead. From experience they are to be treated with caution.
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Familysearch trees are mainly used by members of the LDS church so they can 'baptise' the dead. From experience they are to be treated with caution.
That is just weird! ???
Anyway - thanks again for all of your help. I have now built up the family tree significantly and will probably stop at William and Martha (who is called Mary on a different baptism record of child Sabinah), but I've found out quite a few interesting things about Sheffield, the cutlery industry and the Bashforth name along the way!
https://bashforth.wordpress.com/bashforth-family-name/the-bashforth-name-in-south-west-yorkshire-1600-1660/
Thomas is shown in Allen St in this 1837 directory: https://archive.org/details/historygazetteer01whit
Bashforth Thomas, table knife mfr. and haft & scale presser, ct 19 ; h 131 Allen street.
and also in another 1841 one I found.
This one shows a different address, in 1822: http://blunham.com/big/eng/YKS//WRY/Sheffield/Sheffield22Dry.html - but probably the same person?
Bashforth Thomas, table knife manufacturer and bait presser, Smith's yard, Coalpit lane. ("Coal pit lane, Balm green" - in the centre of Sheffield.)