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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: River Tyne Lass on Thursday 28 December 17 13:44 GMT (UK)
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In 1855, I believe my Great x 2 Grandparents James and Elizabeth Conroy were accused along with five others of the murder of Dorothy Bewick who was their landlady. This was referred to as the 'Matfen Murder' in the press. They pleaded not guilty and I too believe they were not guilty. The main motive put forward for my ancestor James committing the crime was that Dorothy and he had quarreled after she had given him notice to quit his cottage after she became fed up with his bringing back ponies and lodgers back that she disapproved of. My ancestors (and their lodgers) were staying in a farm house in a barn during the night of the murder but it was argued during the trial that they could have travelled back to the cottage during the night and returned after murdering Dorothy. They were defended by a QC who was a Quaker at their trial which took place over two days in Newcastle upon Tyne. They were all ultimately acquitted.
I have my suspicions about one of their lodgers who was called Michael Allen alias Anderson as he was later deported after committing more crimes of theft and violence. His sister Jane also appears to have continued with a life of crime. She appears to have married someone called Best.
This is a long shot but I was wondering if anyone out there may be related to the co-accused in this trial and may know what became of all of them - that is how life continued/ended for them. Their names were Michael Allen alias Anderson; his Mother Isabella Allen alias Anderson; and his sisters Jane Anderson and Eleanor Anderson. Their was also someone called John Simm who turned Queen's evidence.
Also, does anyone know if the actual court documents would still exist somewhere? In the newspapers apart from my ancestor James verbalizing that he was not guilty there appears to be no further verbal evidence given by him or the others during the trial. Were the accused in those days not allowed to speak? Or could it be that the newspapers just omitted to report on anything they may have said in their defence?
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You have probably seen the criminal registers on Ancestry which lists them in the
"Return of all persons committed, or Bailed to appear for trial, or Indicted at the Assizes and Genral Gaol Delivery held at the Castle of Newcastle upon Tyne on the 27th day of February 1856 shewing the nature of their Offences , and the result of the Proceedings"
Have you enquired at TWAS? Or this guide on the NA site may be of help?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/criminal-trials-assize-courts-1559-1971/
Boo
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Thanks Boo.
Yes I have come across what is on Ancestry about them. I don't think they have anything going this far back criminal trials at the T & W Archives, unfortunately. I have emailed the other archives on your link provided. I will await and see if they have anything further.
I know Michael ended up in Australia and wanted to return. I wonder if he did? I sort of doubt he would have been allowed to despite a letter having sent home from him claiming that he was a reformed man. ::)
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A very interesting twisty tale to follow up in your family history
there is a death recorded for a Michael Allen aged 76,born circa 1828
Southwark,Hinfmarsh North Australia,26th December 1904
or a Michael Allen death in Sydney 8th September 1885
place of birth England, born circa 1830,it seems there were a few of that name
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I could not find a death certificate for Dorothy in 1885. She may be registered in March Qtr 1856. West Maften is in Castle Ward, Northumberland Reg. District.
http://www.cultrans.com/newspapers/cumberland-newspapers/carlisle-patriot/117-sat-october-27-1855/2019-dreadful-murder-in-northumberland
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Hi, I have been doing a bit of random googling and came across this (the spelling of Dorothy's surname is different but the year is 1855 so I think it is the same person)
Women in The National Archives. VICTIMS - Murder Victims:
1855 Murder of Dorothy Berwick: pardons cannot be offered to persons in custody as an inducement to give evidence against accomplices in custody. HO 45/6246.
http://www.wtna-findingaid.amdigital.co.uk/results.aspx?SearchString=%22murder%20victim%22
Here it is on TNA website:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4729236
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Thank you Radcliff, Barry's and Jools for your posts. I am not at home at the moment but I think Michael may be the Sydney one by his age of I am not mistaken. I know he appears in the 1841 census in Newgate Street, in Morpeth with his family members who were also implicated in the crime plus an older sister called Elizabeth. There is also someone called Jane Anderson. Pure speculation but I think she may have went on to be the Mother of Isabella Miller who married James and Elizabeth's youngest son Thomas.
Many thanks for the link Jools as I had no idea this existed. It was very kind of you to let me know about this. Also, thanks for the link you sent too Barryd much appreciated. :)
I did not think Michael would have been allowed to come back. A while back I wondered if my ancestors might have felt angry with Michael when they heard of his and his family's later crimes which might make most people suspect him if the murder crime. If my ancestors had suspected him you would think they would be very angry that this man had nearly got them hanged and made their children orphans. My great grandfather would have only been aged four at the time. However, as they called their next child Michael who was born a year after the trial I take it that they did not suspect him. I can't imagine that they would have called their next child Michael if they thought Michael Allen guilty.
It could be that Michael later turned to crime out of desperation of course. In the newspapers it was reported that people would no longer but the wares of the Allens/Andersons.
It came out at the trial that my ancestor James had loaned Dorothy money at one point, so I think he knew she had no money. The Allens alias Anderson's may not have known this.
Dorothy was not buried until 1856. I found her burial a while back at the Newcastle library. I have it written down somewhere at home.
I think my ancestors were written about in quite a disparaging way in the press and goodness knows how they managed to get through their jail time in Morpeth and Newcastle and carry on after the trial. I do believe that they were not guilty. I can't imagine that they would have been that angry with Dorothy to commit such a dreadful crime. You would think they would have known they would automatically become suspects and they would have risked leaving their children orphans.
I thank God for the Quaker QC who helped them in their trial. If not for him then perhaps I might not have been here today if my Great Grandfather had lost his parents and had to try to possibly survive in a workhouse regime.
I have never been able to find out what happened to the children during the trial. Although, I have read that the baby who was still breastfeeding went to court with them. This would have been their son John who was born on 17th March 1855.
I am sorry that Dorothy's killers have never been discovered. She did not deserve what happened to her. :'(
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surprised at how little money she left in her will her only sister and next of kin was Jane Robson wife of William
ref DPRI/3/1855/A206/1
North East inheritance database
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or a Michael Allen death in Sydney 8th September 1885
place of birth England, born circa 1830,it seems there were a few of that name
There are quite a few newspaper reports about the death of Michael ALLEN in Sept 1885 - these are a selection:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article237249437
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article98437374 (this one says Michael was a shoemaker)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13597687 - report of the inquest: this says Michael was about 50 (the image is a little hard to read, but I don't think it's "30") and from Halifax, Yorkshire.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article109771807 - this one says Michael aged between 35 and 40
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Actually, I see from the article in the Newcastle Guardian where Michael mentions he wants to return to England that he was in Fremantle, Western Australia. So possible not the one who died in NSW in 1885.
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This is a long shot but I was wondering if anyone out there may be related to the co-accused in this trial and may know what became of all of them - that is how life continued/ended for them. Their names were Michael Allen alias Anderson; his Mother Isabella Allen alias Anderson; and his sisters Jane Anderson and Eleanor Anderson. Their was also someone called John Simm who turned Queen's evidence.
You may have seen this - also about Michael's life in WA, and mentions his mother "Tibby Anderson" and what she was up to in 1861
Newcastle Journal (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England), Friday, March 22, 1861, Vol. XXX, Issue 1669, p.2.
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Michael ALLEN was given Ticket of Leave 14 Oct 1861, and Conditional Pardon 11 Oct 1866.
http://fremantleprison.com.au/history-heritage/history/convict-database/
Modified to add: he was transported on the Nile, arriving 1 Jan 1858, some more info here, including a description if you follow the link in "note 1":
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/con-wa21.html
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A possibility - there is also a marriage for a Michael ALLEN to Mary Ann McLOUGHLIN in 1866 in the Bowes District (sort of near Geraldton), and a birth to them of Isabella in 1868 at Gwalla Mine (some 800km east of Bowes).
There is a death for Michael ALLEN aged 39 in 1873 in Western Australia, parents and place of birth unknown.
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Hi Radcliff and maddys52,
Thank you both for your help with trying to find out what happened to the co-accused after the trial.
I really appreciate this.
Do you know how much money Dorothy actually left to her relatives? I know in one newspaper article my ancestor James was written about as having loaned Dorothy money. I think this shows that he knew she was not a rich woman and therefore I doubt theft would have been a motive on his part. As Michael committed future robberies, I still have my suspicions about him. In the 1841 census when Michael was living with his family in Newgate Street Morpeth he is recorded as age 8 and therefore his birth year may have been around 1833.
I am very interested in finding out what became of each member of this family as they were so closely related to the fates of my own ancestors.
I suspect that the additional Jane Anderson on the 1841 census was related in some way, possibly a niece of Isabella/Tibby. I believe she may have been the person of the same name who was later to become the mother of the wife of my ancestor Thomas who was the brother of my Great Grandfather Simon Peter.
Thanks for the newspaper attachment. I have come across the article relating to Michael expressing that he would like to come back to England.
Wow! So it looks like Michael was given a conditional pardon and may have married! It is amazing what RootsChatters can find out! Thank you - you are amazing! :D I wonder if someone might know if there is a marriage record which may still exist. I think his father may also have been called Michael.
By the way, I found my notebook in which I recorded the information I got with regard to Dorothy's burial which I found at Newcastle library. Unfortunately, I am not at home now and have forgotten to bring this out with me. However, I was mistaken when I posted on here that Dorothy was not buried until 1856. The burial record shows that she was buried a day or two after death. I am almost sure that this was at St Wilfred, Kirkharle and the entry records that she was murdered. The next burial which took place at this Church was her sister Jane who died in 1856. Jane Robson nee Bewick's husband remarried. I will confirm burial dates on here tomorrow when I am back on here and in possession of my notebook. :)
Thanks so much Radcliff and maddys52 - I am so grateful. :)
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I wonder if someone might know if there is a marriage record which may still exist. I think his father may also have been called Michael.
Apologies, I should have told you that this comes from the Western Australian Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages. You can search the index for free:
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
and order certificates - the Michael ALLEN marriage in 1866 reg no is 2495. An uncertified copy costs $20 AUS. In 1866 WA marriage certs should include groom's father's name and occupation.
It's up to you whether you want to spend the $ ;)
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Hi Maddys52,
Thanks for all your help with my query - I really appreciate this a lot. :)
I may hang fire just now in ordering the certificate as it can be expensive enough ordering certificates just for my own family. I suppose we don't know 100% if this would be the right Michael but my gut feeling is that this is the right Michael which you have located.
I am sure this will be the right Michael which you have found who was given the Conditional pardon in 1866. What a discovery you have made! That man seems to have had more lives than a cat!
However, although I 100% believe you about the pardon I can't seem to see this myself on the link - how can I locate it? It is probably just me and I am not clicking on something which I need to but can you advise me?
If Michael died in 1873 he died 3 years before my Great x 2 Grandfather James who died in Durham on 24 August 1876. After 1881, when as a widow, she was living with her eldest child, called Mary Watson, I have never been able to find out what became of my Great x 2 Grandmother Elizabeth.
This is Dorothy Bewick's burial record and her sister Jane's at St Wilfred, Kirkharle:
'Dorothy Bewick buried 23 October 1855 age 66
Waterloo near Blyth, murdered'
1856
'Jane Robson Sweethope 9th February 72 yrs'
Jane's burial was the next one immediately following Dorothy's burial. The place where my Grt x 2 and Dorothy lived was called Waterloo Cottages. Some newspapers say my ancestors had two children at that point and some say six. They actually had five children at that time and may have had their niece living with them too. After the murder of Dorothy they went on to have four more children, two of these children died very young and are buried in Hexham.
Although, it appears that my Great x two Grandparents were married I have bought copies of my Great Grandfather's (Simon Peter) birth certificate and what I believe is my ancestors' marriage certificate and I believe they did not actually marry until 30 May 1859 - James Conroy and Elizabeth Fitzpatrick Bachelor and Spinster at the RC Church at Stella in Gateshead. On the marriage certificate his age is given as 30 and hers as 31. Their son Michael was also baptized at this Church in 1857.
As for Jane Anderson, Tibby's daughter who was implicated in the murder, the newspapers say she became a 'Best' on marriage. I have not been able to find her marriage as yet.
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Hi Maddys52,
Thanks for all your help with my query - I really appreciate this a lot. :)
I may hang fire just now in ordering the certificate as it can be expensive enough ordering certificates just for my own family. I suppose we don't know 100% if this would be the right Michael but my gut feeling is that this is the right Michael which you have located.
I am sure this will be the right Michael which you have found who was given the Conditional pardon in 1866. What a discovery you have made! That man seems to have had more lives than a cat!
However, although I 100% believe you about the pardon I can't seem to see this myself on the link - how can I locate it? It is probably just me and I am not clicking on something which I need to but can you advise me?
Fully understand not spending the $ ! It's an expensive enough hobby just to find out about our own families let alone those they were connected with.
If you follow the link to Fremantle Prison History
http://fremantleprison.com.au/history-heritage/history/convict-database/
and search by surname under "a", Michael ALLEN appears on the bottom of page 9 (if you display 10 results per page), then click on his name for more info.
Conditional pardons were not that hard to obtain (I think). Here's a quote from the National Library of Australia research guide:
"If they were well behaved, convicts were not usually required to serve out their full term and could apply for a:
ticket of leave
certificate of freedom
conditional pardon; or
an absolute pardon.
With good conduct, a convict serving a seven year term usually qualified for a ticket of leave after four or five years, whilst those serving 14 years could expect to serve between six to eight years. 'Lifers' could qualify for their conditional pardon after 10 or 12 years."
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Many thanks, Maddys52,
I have followed your instructions and have found it. :)
I think this is most certainly Michael as he is described as a horse dealer. That was part of the quarrel that Dorothy was having with my ancestor James - that he kept bringing ponies back to the cottages - presumably to sell.
I am so grateful to you for finding this site for me. I know I would never have found this myself. I now believe that I now have the end story for Michael. Thanks to you! :) My gut feeling is that he is the one who died in 1873. It has been great to find this all this out - for all his failings Michael was at one time a friend of my Great x 2 Grandfather. I can't help feeling sorry for his Mother Tibby who lost him for good. What a character she appears to have been too!
Many, many thanks! :) :)
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I've become quite interested in this ALLEN/ANDERSON family! It seems quite confusing however ...
In 1841 at Newgate St, Morpeth is (along with some GREENS, and a very old DAVIDSON)
Isabella ALLEN 36
Elizabeth Allen 10
Michael Allen 8
Jane Allen 5
Eleanor Allen 2
Jane Anderson 9
HO107/835/9 pg 10
Assuming Michael, Jane and Eleanor are her children all involved in the murder case. Eleanor's birth registration is probably: Eleanor ALLAN Sept qtr 1839 Morpeth (25/277) no mother's maiden name recorded. She is baptised Ellen ALLAN 17 July 1839 at Morpeth (mother only recorded: Isabella, spinster). Can't see a baptism for Michael or Jane.
Then in 1851 at Beggar Lane, Morpeth is the ANDERSON family:
Alexander Anderson 47 Bilton, Northumberland (tinsmith)
Isabella Anderson 45 Rothbury
Jane Anderson 19 Morpeth
Jacob Anderson 15 Morpeth
Elleanor Anderson 13 Rothbury
Mary Anderson 11 Morpeth
Isabella Anderson 9 Morpeth
Martha Anderson 3 Morpeth
HO107/2418 / 207 pg 1
Mary, Isabella and Martha are all registered with mmn CAMPBELL, so I'm assuming the mother is Isabella Mackintosh CAMPBELL bap 25 Jun 1806 at Rothbury. I can see the baptisms of all these children to Alexander (hawker and tinsmith) and Isabella except Eleanor. If she is the same Eleanor in the 1841, why is she with them (called daughter)? This Jane ANDERSON I'm pretty sure is the same one with the ALLEN family in 1841, so they are obviously connected.
The ANDERSON family are in the 1861 at Bullers Green
Alexander Anderson 57 Lesbury, Northumberland (tin plate worker)
Isabella Anderson 55 Rothbury
Jacob Anderson 25 Morpeth
Martha Anderson 13 Morpeth
RG09/3871 / 8 pg 10
Alexander dies 31 Dec 1866 at Belford, and has a nice death notice published. Isabella, Jacob and Martha stay together in the 1871 at Amble (Isabella described as a hawker) and in 1881 visiting the STOREY family in Rothbury.
So how are the two families connected? I can't see another suitable Isabella, Michael or Jane (born c1836) after the 1841, and I can't see Alexander and Isabella ANDERSON in the 1841. And would suspect it was the same Isabella except for the Jane ANDERSON with her in 1841.
I think I'm getting more confused, so probably not helping in trying to find out what happened to them! ;)
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This is just quick as I am an route to work. So I may have to continue reply later.
I have read an article which records that Anderson was Tibby's maiden name. However, I do wonder if she may not have actually married. Michael is usually called Allen but the girls are usually referred to as Anderson- although you have found reference to Allan.
There are questions I still have about this family. I have done quite a bit of research. I am confused too but I suspect the second Jane may have been the daughter of Alexander. I also think she became the wife of Jacob Miller who was living nearby.
I think Eleanor may have married in. Newcastle but I am not 100%. I once found a record which said that her Father was Michael Allen hawker. However, I can't be 100% this is her.
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I am in a terrible rush as I have to start work soon so forgive anything I might write which may sound disjointed. I am very interested in solving the questions I have about the Allens/Anderson's too.
I wonder where Ellen Allan was baptised.
I believe that Alexander was the father of Jane who was the Mother of Isabella Miller who went on to marry the son of James Conroy who was called Thomas. Jane perhaps common law wife of Jacob Miller. Thomas and Isabella had their first child Sarah baptised in Amble. There were links in Amble with her Grandparents family.
I believe my two x Grt Grandparents were living Newgate Street Morpeth in 1851. The family beside them I believe to be James parents and siblings. There is a story in a newspaper about Margaret, the sister of James having later attacked one of the witnesses in the murder trial. She appears to have been sent to the Hexham House of correction for this then I have lost all track of her. Ann Conroy later married Adam Drummond. I found a baptism for what I believe may have been their illegitimate child before they married. The baptism which took place at a Church close to the cottages records the child was born at Waterloo.
One of James daughters was given an emergency baptism before death by Margaret Dalton. I believe she was Isabella Miller's aunt Margaret Dalton ne e Miller.
There is another newspaper story about Edward Conroy having robbed I think it was Jacob? Anderson at Amble. I think this may have been my ancestors brother, unfortunately. What Blacksheep ancestors I seem to have had.
(I am amending this to note that I mean that it is unfortunate that Edward seems to have committed this crime; I do not think think it is unfortunate that Edward was James brother. I thought it was important that I clarify my wording on this point and what I meant.)
The Andersons/Millers/Conroys all appear to have been connected. Sorry, This is all very rushed and I don't have my dates or anything to hand.
I do wonder if Jane who was implicated in the murder may have married her 'Best' husband at a later point? I can't see a marriage at the time the newspapers day she was married.
Thanks so much maddys52 for your post, your efforts and your interest. Very much appreciated. :)
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Hi maddys52,
I forgot to mention this morning that I think the 1841 family you show is Tibby's family.
I think the Jane Anderson who is age 9 may be Alexander's daughter.
However, I do not think that Tibby and Alexander's wife are the same person. I think that Tibby may have been related to Alexander and that may be why Jane seems to be staying with her in 1841. I wonder if Tibby may have been Alexander's sister? I do think there is a relationship link but I am unsure what kind exactly.
Thomas Conroy and wife Isabella who I have mentioned before lived in Amble for a while. As my ancestors appear to have had a habit of moving around but staying near close relations I think they may have moved to Amble to be near Isabella's Grandmother's family. Isabella's mother was called Jane Anderson before she became the 'wife' of Jacob Miller. However, I haven't been able to find a marriage record for these two.
Thomas (James & Elizabeth's youngest son) and Isabella called their youngest daughter Jane Anderson Conroy. The latter died young. She had been born in New York, North Shields where Thomas and I believe, Edward's family moved to. They lived near Isabella's parents who also lived in New York in later years. Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson are both buried at Earsdon. There was a lovely memoriam notice published for Jane after her death.
Jane and Jacob's son Michael Miller went on to marry Elizabeth Watson my Great x 2 Grandfather James' Granddaughter. Her Mother was Mary Watson nee Conroy who was James and Elizabeth's eldest child. Sorry, This seems to be sounding a bit complicated.
Jane and Jacob had several children - one was called Alexander Miller - I think she probably called him after her Father Alexander who you have noticed in Beggar's Lane.
I wonder which Church Ellen Allan was baptised at?
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I have put a search on freebmd and a Jane Allan married a John Best in the June quarter of 1871 in the Glendale registration district. I wonder if this may be Tibby's daughter Jane who was implicated in the crime?
I know the papers once reported that Tibby and family had relatives in another part of Northumberland but I can't remember exactly where now off the top of my head.
The newspapers refer to Jane being now Jane Best in the 1860s. However, I have often found that sometimes people have the appearance of being married but not actually marrying the assumed spouse until several years later.
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Ellen ALLAN was baptised at St Mary the Virgin, Morpeth on 17 July 1839, with mother recorded as "Isabella ALLAN, spinster".
I agree that Alexander's wife is not the Isabella who was involved in the murder trial, and that the Jane ANDERSON in the 1841 with them is Alexander's daughter. Though why she is there I'm still not sure. Alexander is likely the son of John ANDERSON (lic hawker) and Sarah MILLER (daughter of Jacob MILLER of Morpeth) who was born 28 Sept 1804 and baptised 7 Oct 1804 at St Mary the Virgin, Lesbury (don't you love a really detailed baptism entry ;D )
Have to go now (housework beckons), but will keep looking at this interesting family ;D
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Thank you maddys52. This is a bit of a rush again today as I am off for a big family celebration event. I will be able to respond better at some point tomorrow my apologies that this is again a bit of a rush job.
However, I forgot to mention that James and Elizabeth's son James was baptised at St Francis Xavier, at Cheeseburn Grange which is R C Church near the cottages. His sponsor was 'Jane Anderson'. Son James was born on 19 February 1853 and baptised on 22 May 1853. Brother John was baptised here too in 1855 as well as Mary Drummond who I believe to be James niece - daughter of sister Ann.
I have looked at the Miller's - they appear to have started at Gateshead then to Longbenton area then off to Morpeth and finished off at New York.
I live in hope though that I will find out more on the interesting Tibby's family one day. I do wish I could find out if Alexander's daughter is related to her some day.
You are correct I believe in all you have recorded. :).
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Hi maddys52,
I have hunted out my notes which I wrote down a good while back concerning two possibles for Tibby's daughters who are recorded on the 1841 census:
Elizabeth Allen who was baptised in Alnwick on 28 February 1830. Parents Michael Allen and Isabella.
Ellen Allen marriage to John Morrison
22 August 1857, St Nicholas, Newcastle
She was recorded as 'a hawker' but then a line was crossed over these words.
Her father was recorded as Michael Allen - a hawker
Her husband John was a cartman and his Father Robert was also recorded as a cartman.
Their witnesses were William Watson and Isabella Kelly.
I am not 100% that these are Tibby's daughters but I think there is a chance they may be. Hopefully, one day perhaps in the future someone may be able to confirm or refute whether these are actually Tibby's daughters or not.
I have also found some old notes I have regarding some Anderson baptisms.
Jane Anderson baptised at St Mary, Morpeth
4 December 1831
Parents Alexander and Isabella
Abode: Buller's Green
Alexander a 'Yeoman'
Jacob Millar baptised St, Mary Morpeth
3 April 1836
Parents Alexander and Isabella Anderson
Abode:Morpeth
Hawker
Mary Anderson baptised St Mary, Morpeth
Baptised 1 March 1840
Parents Alexander and Isabella Anderson
Abode: Buller's Green
Tinner
Isabella Anderson baptised St Mary, Morpeth, 24 April 1842
Parents Alexander and Isabella Anderson
Abode: Buller's Green
Tinsmith
Also just to add some dates to the deaths of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson mentioned yesterday:
Jane died 27 February 1895 and was buried at St Alban, Earsdon on 2 March 1895
Jacob died in 23 January 1900 and was buried at St Alban, Earsdon on 26 January 1900.
This Jacob and a brother called George (perhaps twins?) were baptised at St Bartholomew, Longbenton. The baptism records that the family's abode was 'Gateshead'. It does seem a long way to go for a baptism when there were more closer Churches.
Many thanks for your help over the past week. :)
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This Jacob and a brother called George (perhaps twins?) were baptised at St Bartholomew, Longbenton. The baptism records that the family's abode was 'Gateshead'. It does seem a long way to go for a baptism when there were more closer Churches.
They were baptised on the same day, however in the 1841 census at Newgate St they are shown with different ages - George (13) and Jacob (11)
HO107/835/9 pg 11
:)
Do you have all his siblings? Looks like 9 children in all to Jacob and Ann MILLER.
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Also, just to add to your list of ANDERSON children baptisms -
Martha bap 12 Dec 1847 at St Mary the Virgin, Morpeth, abode: Morpeth - though no parents names were recorded this looks like a good match for the Martha who appears with them through the censuses.
The baptism for Elizabeth ALLAN and marriage for Ellen ALLAN also look good ;)
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There are a number of baptisms/burials of Allen/Allan, Miller, Drummond, Anderson family members on this site (which does not pretend to be comprehensive). Lots of Stewarts also - not sure if related?
https://sites.google.com/site/soldierssailersandstrangers/births/baptisms-1800
Gives a rough idea of how these inter-related families of muggers/potters/hawkers etc moved around Northumberland and southern Scotland. I have often come across these names as I have worked through Northumberland registers looking for my mobile hinds and shepherds and am very much enjoying reading this thread.
It is an ambitious task but I think potentially a genuine contribution to the social history of the region if you expert Rootschatters could work out the dynamics of this fascinating group of families.
This thread may be of interest:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719191.msg5656797#msg5656797
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Thanks maddys52 - I will add Martha's record to my collection.
Also many thanks SelDen for your interesting post and links. I can't see any name of recognition but it is always good to let others know of new links which may be helpful. So thank you.
I am not at home at the moment so don't have my dates to hand but I have done some background research on the Miller's and Anderson's and have found out a little bit on the Drummonds. As I say I believe some of those named are linked to my Conroy ancestors.
Ann Miller was an interesting person to research. She was the sister of Jacob and aunt of Isabella Conroy ne e Anderson I believe. I believe I have found her in Tynemouth workhouse under the name of Ann Smith with illegitimate daughter Jane Smith baptised at Christ Church, North Shields. She then goes on to marry Daniel Mackbride as Ann Miller and has some children with him. She next married Peter Conroy. In one census I believe some of her Mackbride children have been given the name of Conroy. She has a daughter called Bridget amongst other children to Peter who later becomes Bridget Gilboy on marriage. The Gilboys are also linked with the Conroys through marriage.
I will put some dates to all this soon for those who may be researching these people either now or in the future perhaps.
Many thanks SelDen. It is interesting to hear that you think the histories of these people may add to the social history of the region. :)
Best Wishes.
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Trying to find that link between the Jane ANDERSON who is with the ALLEN's in 1841, but unsuccessful so far. I know you thought "Tibby" was possibly related to Alexander ANDERSON.
Alexander's baptism says his father was John ANDERSON and mother Sarah MILLER (d.o. Jacob MILLER). It also says he was their first son. Other children that I can see to this couple are:
- Jane (born 29 May 1799, bap 3 Jun 1799) at St Michael and All Angels, Ford (noted as 1st daughter, and that mother from Ancroft, Durham)
- Sarah (born 31 May1807, bap 4Jun 1807) at St Mary the Virgin, Ponteland (noted as 3rd daughter)
So unfortunately there is another daughter I can't find, hoping it would be Isabella ... but no luck so far.
Btw, thanks SelDen for the links!
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Greetings from Australia. I am a direct descendant of Michael Allen, of the Matfen Murder saga. I have had a very quick look at the first page of this thread and will look at the rest soon, but very excited to find it. Sadly, Michael never made it back to the UK. He was granted Ticket of Leave in 1861 and Conditional Pardon in 1866. He married Mary Ann McLochlin (nee Wellington) in 1866 and the only child of this union was my great grandmother, Isabella Louisa Allen, born in 1868. Michael died in 1873 aged 39 in Geraldton, Western Australia. Mary Ann married again the same year Michael died and went on to have another 7 children to George Robinson. Isabella, a midwife, died aged 60 in 1928. Until she married she continued to use the surname of Allen and did not take on the Robinson name despite being only 5 when Michael died.
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Welcome to RootsChat Suryniji,
This was a very interesting thread involving some interesting families, it was good to be reminded of it this morning. :)
I'm sure River Tyne Lass will be pleased to hear from you and interested to hear what became of Michael ALLEN.
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Welcome to RootsChat Suriniji!
Thank you so much for joining this thread! How extraordinary it feels to hear from a descendant of Michael!
I am very interested to know what became of this family as they were lodgers and friends with my own ancestors and shared the fate of becoming co-defendants in that sad and infamous trial.
There are so many questions and mystery, it is hard to know where to start. Aside from the murder, I do wonder about the interconnectedness of the Conroy/Miller and Anderson families. I suspect the Jane Anderson age 9 who seemed to be with Tibby & family in 1841 may have been of some family relationship with them. A Jane Anderson of that age went on to marry Jacob Miller (son of Jacob Miller) and she became the Mother of Isabella Miller who married my Great Grandfather's brother Thomas Conroy. Isabella's brother Michael Miller married Elizabeth Watson who was the daughter of my Great Grandfather's sister Mary Watson nee Conroy. From various records and newspaper reports I do think these families were familiar and interconnected with each other.
I do know that there are descendants of Jacob and Jane Miller nee in my area. (Tyneside) Although, I do not know them personally. At one point, I hoped to contact a descendant from this Conroy/Miller/Anderson line who was also very interested in family history but this person died in tragic circumstances before I could contact.
Just out of curiosity, have you had dna tested? If so, I wonder if you might match with descendants of Jacob and Jane, which might lend support that Jane Miller nee Anderson was related to Tibby.
I do feel sorry that Tibby (Isabella) lost her son Michael for good it would seem. I think this scene as depicted in the Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury dated 2 August 1856 is really quite sad and you can imagine the state of her anguish ..
... 'Outside the Moot Hall where the prisoner was tried, Mrs Allen (who was made familiar by the Matfen Murder for which she was also arraigned as "old Tibby Anderson") was standing on Tuesday afternoon waiting the result of her son's trial, and when it was communicated to her, she threw her arms about in a state of wild and frantic excitement, and wrung her hands in despair, crying out "they had transported her innocent bairn". So great was the crowd that congregated around her, that she had ultimately to be driven off the ground by the police.'
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Terribly sorry for the delay. I'm so new to rootschat that I did not realise there had been responses. I only came on here tonight to finally try and read the whole thread, which I still have not done as it is just so mind boggling. From what I have read of it so far, a wealth of information has been provided. I am very fortunate to have found this link, and I thank you all. I will get through it all eventually ;D Yes, I have tested, as has my father and my two siblings, so I would hope that this could help confirm the tangled web. River Tyne Lass, Is there a way I could discuss this information privately with you? I have a tree on Ancestry which is also connected to my DNA.
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This is great to hear from you again. :D How remarkable to hear from a descendant of my Grt x 2 Grandfather's friend!
Yes,I will give you my email by pm.
If Jane Miller nee Anderson was related to your ancestor Tibby and family, I think you will probably connect DNA wise to descendants of my ancestors Thomas Conroy and Mary Watson nee Conroy who were the brother and sister of my Great Grandfather Simon (James & Elizabeth's third child).
Mary's daughter Elizabeth married Jane's son Michael and Thomas married Jane's daughter Isabella.
Jane and husband Jacob have a memorial in St Alban, Earsdon.
It will certainly be interesting to try to suss things out. :)
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I have just been contacted by a convict researcher about Michael Allan, convict no.4585. I googled him and came across this forum so hopefully I have posted a reply correctly. I am sure they will get back to me with more info. I already had this
From Freemantle Prison Australia
ALLEN, Michael
4585
1 Jan 1858
Nile
Date of Birth: 1833
Marital Status: Unmarried
Occupation: Horse dealer
Literacy: Illiterate
Sentence Place: Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Crime: Robbery with violence
Sentence Period: Life
Ticket Leave Date: 14 Oct 1861
Conditional Pardon Date: 11 Oct 1866
Greetings from Australia. I am a direct descendant of Michael Allen, of the Matfen Murder saga. I have had a very quick look at the first page of this thread and will look at the rest soon, but very excited to find it. Sadly, Michael never made it back to the UK. He was granted Ticket of Leave in 1861 and Conditional Pardon in 1866. He married Mary Ann McLochlin (nee Wellington) in 1866 and the only child of this union was my great grandmother, Isabella Louisa Allen, born in 1868. Michael died in 1873 aged 39 in Geraldton, Western Australia. Mary Ann married again the same year Michael died and went on to have another 7 children to George Robinson. Isabella, a midwife, died aged 60 in 1928. Until she married she continued to use the surname of Allen and did not take on the Robinson name despite being only 5 when Michael died.
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Lovely to see your post Sue - amazing that you are descended from the friends of my bloodline ancestors. Do you know much about what happened to the rest of Michael's family? Tibby etc? I am interested. There was an Anderson whose daughter married into my Conroy side and it would be of interest to know if Tibby had any links to that Anderson family.
Several years ago I found a marriage record for which I suspect relates to sister Ellen and I think I posted the details on some thread on here although I can't recall the thread title right now.
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Actually the post re the marriage of Eleanor/Ellen was on this thread. Here is some info from the entry I found:
Ellen Allen marriage to John Morrison
22 August 1857, St Nicholas, Newcastle
She was recorded as 'a hawker' but then a line was crossed over these words.
Her father was recorded as Michael Allen - a hawker
Her husband John was a cartman and his Father Robert was also recorded as a cartman.
Their witnesses were William Watson and Isabella Kelly.