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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Grandma Chris on Friday 29 December 17 17:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Grandma Chris on Friday 29 December 17 17:20 GMT (UK)
This photograph was sent to me by a relative in Salt Lake City , Utah.  My great ,great grandparents went to Utah in 1872 . Their eldest son,my great grandfather stayed in Cardiff. I do not recognise the family so would like to know when it as taken to help my search for an answer.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 30 December 17 11:36 GMT (UK)
I would say this was 1890s around mid/late decade.
Carol
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 30 December 17 13:18 GMT (UK)
Not a lot to go on  :-\  but just maybe a little hint, if they still held with their British roots or to follow the British monarchy as fashion, the lady is in black that could hold with Queen Victoria in mourning black, being alive pre 1901 and that ladies dress with tight arms and shoulders with puffy bits are seen more reminiscent in Edwardian dresses. Thus say 1898 -1901
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: chinakay on Saturday 30 December 17 18:40 GMT (UK)
It's not a colour photo. Every dark colour looks black in a b&w photo. This is as Treetotal says from the mid/late 1890s.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Brentor boy on Saturday 30 December 17 19:21 GMT (UK)
The photographer was Thomas Lamb Paviour. In 1891 he was living in Doncaster area, 1901 Bridgend and 1911 in Cardiff.

There are two examples of his work in the National Archives, dated 1903 and 1904 whilst he was operating in Cathays, Cardiff.

I cannot find any more detailed information about him, where and when he worked, on sites relating to Victorian photographers.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 30 December 17 19:47 GMT (UK)
Agree with Carol and China (who wouldn't?    ;D)   Mid/late 1890s.

Wiggy   
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 30 December 17 20:48 GMT (UK)
The Lichfield mercury (Lichfield, England), Friday, October 27, 1893 there was ? a Thomas L Paviour living at Rugeley in Staffordshire

Bridgend (1901c) is some distance from Cardiff (1911c) and that Lady has a Queen Mary look in her hair and dress style about her.

Photo could be much later.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/06/26/52/062652a9ba701304368759c46befffaa--princess-victoria-princess-mary.jpg
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Brentor boy on Sunday 31 December 17 09:47 GMT (UK)
With a modern car and the motorway, the 20 mile commute between Cardiff and Bridgend is no great challenge. In 1900 it would have been quite a different story. Would Thomas Paviour have had  a car?

I suspect he established his business in Cardiff circa 1901/3 and that is the earliest date for the photograph. Is it not possible that fashions in remoter parts of the country might have lagged behind urban centres of fashion?
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 31 December 17 10:27 GMT (UK)
See here:

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-cartes-de-visite-visiting-card-portrait-of-two-attractive-victorian-56787093.html

It's possible that it's a reprint of an earlier photo.
Carol
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Brentor boy on Sunday 31 December 17 10:38 GMT (UK)
See here:

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-cartes-de-visite-visiting-card-portrait-of-two-attractive-victorian-56787093.html

It's possible that it's a reprint of an earlier photo.
Carol

I claim no expertise in fashion or photography and so am content to accept your suggestion.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 31 December 17 11:22 GMT (UK)
Agree with mid-late 1890's.
The small "puffball" sleeve was a style that signalled the end of the gigot sleeve style so 1896-99.
If this was a reprint it would have had come from the original plate of the original photographer.
They look late 20's-mid 30's if it helps.
When your GGGrandparents emigrated they would have been very young, 5-10 yo I would think.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 31 December 17 13:23 GMT (UK)
Is it possible to find who was (or business) in residence at 81, Wyeverne street, Cathays, Cardiff on the 1901 census. ? That may refine help the parameters dates   :-\ or  not
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 31 December 17 16:13 GMT (UK)
Don't know if this link might help

Paviour, Thomas Lamb (aka T L Pavioux)

For lots of data, for research projects or for further clarification, contact us
Don't forget, we also hold original photographs taken by many of the photographers listed ..........

http://www.victorianphotographers.co.uk/index.php/victorian-photographers-p/paviour-thomas-lamb-aka-t-l-pavioux-/p_41360.html
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 31 December 17 16:31 GMT (UK)
Is it possible to find who was (or business) in residence at 81, Wyeverne street, Cathays, Cardiff on the 1901 census. ?

That may refine help the parameters dates   :-\ or  not

81 Wyeverne Rd Cathays Cardiff - William Hustin & family
1901 RG13; Piece: 4978; Folio: 121; Page: 40
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 31 December 17 18:59 GMT (UK)
Is it possible to find who was (or business) in residence  on the 1901 census. ?

That may refine help the parameters dates   :-\ or  not

81 Wyeverne Rd Cathays Cardiff - William Hustin & family
1901 RG13; Piece: 4978; Folio: 121; Page: 40


So THE PAVOUR STUDIO was post 1901 census or Thomas L Paviour was not commuting between Bridgend and at 81, Wyeverne street, Cathays, Cardiff. 1901.

Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Grandma Chris on Monday 01 January 18 11:39 GMT (UK)
Thank you all so much for your help with this photograph. My 2x great grandparents were Mormons who went to Utah in 1872 with their all children except my great grandfather Thomas John Gardner. His children were born in 1875,1877,1879 and 1882. Maybe it is a photo of one their  families which was sent to Salt Lake City although the connection with Mormons was never mentioned in the family.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 01 January 18 12:27 GMT (UK)
Earliest sighting of "Paviour, Wyeverne Road" in Cardiff

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4147894/4147896/13/paviour
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 01 January 18 12:34 GMT (UK)
This photograph was sent to me by a relative in Salt Lake City , Utah.  My great ,great grandparents went to Utah in 1872 . Their eldest son,my great grandfather stayed in Cardiff. I do not recognise the family so would like to know when it as taken to help my search for an answer.


If your great ,great grandparents went to Utah in 1872  and your great grand father stayed in Cardiff, is it likely this family in the photo also stem from your great granddad in Wales also seeing as it was photo framed in Cardiff Wales UK.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Grandma Chris on Monday 01 January 18 12:54 GMT (UK)
Yes that was what I thought . But Thomas died in 1889 when his children were 14, 12, 10 and 7.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 01 January 18 12:59 GMT (UK)
National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c13394451
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 01 January 18 13:13 GMT (UK)
Brentnorboy,
Reread posts and see you had identified 1903/4 National Archives - apologies.

On the 1901 Census, Thomas, living in Pencoed, describes himself as "working at home". Prior to that I can see him managing a sweet factory in Pontypridd and showing prize poultry!
 
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 03 January 18 18:43 GMT (UK)
Gets more strange this thread, the picture frame printed address says 81 Wyeverne Street Cathays Cardiff

Can't find a (now or old) map or record -Yet ? that there was ever a street called Wyeverne Street in Cardiff. Yet there is a Wyeverne road Cathays Cardiff.

We have 2 links ( one Nat Archives and one Wales newspapers) with an address for T L Paviour 42 Wyeverne road, Cardiff (which is Cathays)


I can understand a document error ! or newspaper error with a ward  street or road but not a print address of a photographers own address on his  likely lots of his  photo frames.
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 03 January 18 19:18 GMT (UK)
This is a 1901 map that shows the present Wyeverne Road named Upper George Street
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/Map/318500/177500/12/100633

The map would have been drawn up some time before publication. Wonder of the name change around this period was causing some confusion?
Title: Re: Date of when Cathays Cardiff photograph was taken.
Post by: Spidermonkey on Wednesday 03 January 18 19:32 GMT (UK)
1909 street directory of Cardiff mentions Wyeverne St in it's description of Thesiger Street (from Wyeverne Street to Woodville Road)

http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p16445coll4/id/64252/rec/2

Mind you, if you then turn to the description of Wyeverne XXX, it only has a Wyeverne Road, (and describes it as formerly Upper George Street)