RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ayashi on Saturday 30 December 17 15:10 GMT (UK)
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Just received a batch of certs (yay!)
Including... a death certificate with no cause of death on it :-\
One might have thought that a rather important point...
>:(
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Until 1874 entering the cause of death was not a legal requirement, but from 1874 a doctor's certificate was necessary before a death certificate could be issued.
Stan
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Thanks.
I am a little bit mad about it though, the cause of death was the whole reason I bought the cert ::)
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Thanks.
I am a little bit mad about it though, the cause of death was the whole reason I bought the cert ::)
That must be maddening! I have found with some London Deaths that I have managed to avoid ordering the Cert by finding the Death Register Entries; which give the cause of Death. I don't know if this just applies to London though? (London Death Registries are on Ancestry).
Romilly.
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In terms of burials only rarely have I found cause of death mentioned with my relatives. In fact, I can only think of one off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure I must have looked for this little guy's burial but apparently not found it yet.
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Until 1874 entering the cause of death was not a legal requirement, but from 1874 a doctor's certificate was necessary before a death certificate could be issued.
Stan
For the background see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=658541.msg5074709#msg5074709
Stan
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In terms of burials only rarely have I found cause of death mentioned with my relatives. In fact, I can only think of one off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure I must have looked for this little guy's burial but apparently not found it yet.
I'll see if I can attach this Burial Register. My G/Grandfather is the bottom entry, left hand page.
Romilly.
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I too have cause of death in the burial registers - pre 1837. London, and my favourite parish registers for Tadcaster, where parents are also cited. The baptisms are even more wonderful - parents and grandparents with occupations, day and date of birth and the same for the baptism. :D :D
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Regretfully only my paternal side is London and surrounding. My maternal side favours multiple areas around the UK usually focusing in towns and villages only just large enough to bother a map maker.
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Thanks.
I am a little bit mad about it though, the cause of death was the whole reason I bought the cert ::)
Just out of curiosity, how old was the person and when and where did he die?
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1841 Kendal, Westmorland. He was 8 years old.
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Did you get the cert from GRO? Perhaps they just missed off the cause of death when copying it. You cold always try contacting Kendal archives and see if they will look at the original (if they have it) to see if a cause of death was given. I've never had a death cert with no cause of death, I've had, old age, visitation (which I think is short for a visit from the angels!) etc. but never nothing at all.
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In terms of burials only rarely have I found cause of death mentioned with my relatives. In fact, I can only think of one off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure I must have looked for this little guy's burial but apparently not found it yet.
Transcribing late-C18 Formby burials recently, I have found patches where the curate has entered cause of death, commonly consumption, as one might expect. I wonder why he started doing it, and then stopped after a year or two?
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Lizzie,
"Visitation" is a bit grander than the Angels - it's God himself (or herself?).!
One of my 3xgreat grandfathers died from "Visitation of God" in 1864, as decided by a coroner's jury !
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Lizzie,
"Visitation" is a bit grander than the Angels - it's God himself (or herself?).!
One of my 3xgreat grandfathers died from "Visitation of God" in 1864, as decided by a coroner's jury !
You live and learn, I wonder if the ones with a Visitation of God were more upper class, than the ones who only had angels come for them?
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Visitation of God is listed in the 1909 Manual of the International Causes of Death 2nd Revision As: Cause of death not specified or ill defined. It had been said that death from Visitation of God might imply a punishment from God of someone who was sinful, but it could also mean someone who was blessed by God because they were spared from enduring a distressing illness, or they were rewarded for their virtuous life by admission to heaven. It was very common in the nineteenth century.
See http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/English/EnglishV.htm
Stan
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I guess nowadays such a death would be subject to a coroner's report at least and possibly even a post-mortem to find out the cause of a sudden death.
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I guess nowadays such a death would be subject to a coroner's report at least and possibly even a post-mortem to find out the cause of a sudden death.
All depends on whether a doctor has been treating the person and is able to give a cause of death - even today "Old Age" is used quite regularly as a valid cause (doctors will often admit they have no idea of anything more specific to put)
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Medical Certificate of Cause of Death Notes for Doctors
"Old age, senility – do not use ‘old age’ or ‘senility’ as the only cause of death in Part I unless a more specific cause of death cannot be given and the deceased was aged 70 or over." http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l8t/
Stan
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Medical Certificate of Cause of Death Notes for Doctors
"Old age, senility – do not use ‘old age’ or ‘senility’ as the only cause of death in Part I unless a more specific cause of death cannot be given and the deceased was aged 70 or over." http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l8t/
Stan
That's out of date - the age limit is now 80+ .....
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Even saying like "Called by God" or something equally vague would be acceptable compared to nothing.
Yes, I did get the cert from GRO. I can try contacting the Kendal RO but it may be as suggested previously that the cause was omitted, especially in a cert as early as 1841.
I got a batch of child deaths just for curiosity. Makes for sad reading.
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I got a batch of child deaths just for curiosity. Makes for sad reading.
I too have bought a number of child death certs (using the pdf advantage), both for interest re the cause, but also as a way to plot their movements, and yes, some very sad stories including some families with a number of infant deaths (all had causes though, inc one ‘found dead in bed’ resulting in an inquest).
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There is a essay on Infant Mortality at http://www.rootschat.com/links/08ev/
Stan
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This latest batch:
Inflammation, aged 3 months
Enteritis, aged 4 days
Typhus Fever 4 days, aged 7 years
Tabes Mesenterica 4 weeks, aged 3 years
Rubeola 8 weeks Tabes Mesenterica 1 week, aged 1 year
And of course the above chap.
I also have an ancestor who died in 1851- found his burial but doesn't appear to be any corresponding death cert!
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One of my 4 x g.grandmothers died on 14 October 1837 in Egremont Cumberland and buried on 16 October, but there is no death certificate for her. What there is, however, is a parish record giving her date of death, which the local archivist kindly found for me. It's always worth contacting them, if GRO haven't got what you are looking for.
Have you looked on FreeBMD for a death record of your ancestor, GRO accept they have quite a few records not on their site at the moment.
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I looked on several databases. The only theory I've really come up with is that he died on board ship (he was a mariner) and got buried in the church yard next to the ship's next port. The Deaths at Sea register began in 1852 ::)
I've emailed Kendal :)
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I thought he was only 8 years old. Was he already a mariner 🤔
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I have an ancestor who died in December 1864 and I have her burial but no death cert has been found. Her burial gives her place of residence, which is where she always lived. Again there can be several reasons, some entries were garbled or missed off the BMD register or death not registered even though I am sure a death cert had to be given for a burial when civil reg began.
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I thought he was only 8 years old. Was he already a mariner 🤔
We are talking about two separate people now ;)
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I thought he was only 8 years old. Was he already a mariner 🤔
We are talking about two separate people now ;)
Sorry :-[
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I thought he was only 8 years old. Was he already a mariner 🤔
We are talking about two separate people now ;)
Sorry :-[
Don't worry. Sorry I confused you :)
The original gripe about the missing cause of death was the eight year old.
A few posts ago I mentioned an ancestor who didn't have a death cert at all- he was the mariner.
:)
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I thought i'd kept on top of the thread, but no worries. 😀
I'd have been very disappointed too if i'd had no cause of death. Hope the local office can help.
Reminds me i have a few more to buy before the pdf trial stops.
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I looked on several databases. The only theory I've really come up with is that he died on board ship (he was a mariner) and got buried in the church yard next to the ship's next port. The Deaths at Sea register began in 1852 ::)
As I mentioned in another thread recently, coastal parishes (in my case Formby, Lancs) frequently buried unidentified bodies 'cast up by the Tide', usually 'a Man', but occasionally a woman or child. Mariners lost at sea will often have no known grave, although they may well have been buried somewhere, and their loss at sea may be recorded.
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I'm reasonably confident it is his burial- right area for his MN records, his name wasn't massively common, the age matches and his MN records end that year. I think he might well have been estranged from his family at this point so perhaps they didn't seek to have him moved to their home area. The abode on the burial just says "infirmary", which we did wonder if it was workhouse, but again no corresponding certificate. I did buy one for someone with the same surname in case it was mucked up but it wasn't him. I think he's one of life's great mysteries ::)
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I once had a similar disappointment when at the Durham Archives. I was searching for a great x 2 Grandfather's marriage record on my Mother's side. I was trying to find the name of his Father. However, I discovered that at the particular Church he married at whoever had filled out the paper work on all marriages for that period had chosen to omit all details for everyone's Fathers completely!! ::) >:(
(Including names and occupation for Fathers on loads of marriages.)
I wrote to the registrars to see if it would be worth buying the certificate but was told that the Fathers were not on the certificate either.
I have an idea who his Father was but just wanted to confirm it.
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I've got one marriage which simply reads "[date] William Brady to Isabel" ::)
Just got a reply from Kendal Archives- they don't have the certificates but did look up his burial- no cause of death, as I suspected. Will try their recommended people :)