RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: ariedl on Saturday 30 December 17 16:13 GMT (UK)
-
Hello all! I have started to dive into a branch of my family with which I'm not very familiar, and am already confused enough that I need advice. Here's what I know:
My great-grandmother, Martha Hutchison, was born on 1 June 1875 in Dundee, to David Hutchison and Jane Grant. Her father was born or baptized on 4 September 1851 in Aberdeen, to David Hutchison and Jane Lodge.I feel pretty confident about these facts, having Martha's birth, marriage, and death certificates, as well as her father's birth or baptism, marriage, and death certificates.
In trying to hammer down her grandparents, however, I've encountered different information and am not sure if it's the kind of variation that one typically encounters in genealogical research, or if I'm actually looking at two different sets of people with the same names.
Martha's grandfather is listed as a railway worker on the vast majority of documents I have found:
William, born 29 June 1860, father listed as Railway Labourer
James, born 28 August 1864, father listed as Railway Labourer
Wilhelmina, born on 8 October 1867, father listed as Railway Labourer
Martha, married 9 September 1892, father listed as Railway S??? (sorry, can't make the second word out)
David, married 24 July 1905, father listed as Railway S???man (still can't make out second word, possibly 'serviceman')
Seems pretty settled, but on the only marriage record I can find for a David Hutchison and Jane Lodge, in Old Machar on 16 March 1851, David is listed as a potter. On James' birth certificate, his parents marriage is listed as 15 October 1849 in Aberdeen. On Wilhelmina's birth certificate, it is listed as 5 September 1842, also in Aberdeen. I have been unable to find either of these weddings on SP, but you would think these discrepancies would be enough to throw out the marriage record I do have. However, on Martha's father's marriage certificate from 19 September 1870, his father is listed as a "Potter." Finally, on Jane Lodge's death certificate from 20 July 1870, her husband is listed as a "Hawker of earthenware."
A secondary issue that I'm not sure is really an issue, is the 21 year range from the birth of the first child I can find (Mary, 26 February 1846) to the last (Wilhelmina, 8 October 1867). Jane would have been approximately 25 when Mary was born, and 46 when Wilhelmina was born, so it's definitely possible, just seemed like a long range to me.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and would be happy to provide information I may have left out, if I have it.
Thanks for your help!
-
Martha, married 9 September 1892, father listed as Railway S??? (sorry, can't make the second word out)
David, married 24 July 1905, father listed as Railway S???man (still can't make out second word, possibly 'serviceman')
Without seeing might it be railway signalman?
-
Without seeing might it be railway signalman?
It could well be! Here are the two documents where I can't make out the word...
-
The occupation is Railway Surfaceman.
Isobel
-
I'm a bit confused. Is the David who married Elizabeth Hyland in 1905 age 50 ( i.e. Born around 1855) the same David who was married to Jane Grant ( who you say was born in 1851)?
Isobel
-
The occupation is Railway Surfaceman.
Isobel
That's definitely it! I had never heard of the title before.
I'm a bit confused. Is the David who married Elizabeth Hyland in 1905 age 50 ( i.e. Born around 1855) the same David who was married to Jane Grant ( who you say was born in 1851)?
Isobel
Yes, his first wife, Jane Grant, died in 1880, and he eventually remarried in 1905. I suspect that the listed age of 50 is off by a bit.
-
I'm pretty sure there is only one David Hutchison/ Jane Lodge. Martha born in 1856 in Aberdeen who married in 1892 ( per the certificate you uploaded) is living with David and Jane nee Grant in 1871 ( transcribed as Hutcheon on Ancestry). They are all described as lodgers but Martha is almost certainly the same one who appears in 1861 as the 5 year old daughter of David ( a Labourer) and Jane nee Lodge ( Constitution Rd Dundee - transcribed as Hutchen on Ancestry). David is also listed on that census age 9 along with a Margaret age 7 and William age 9m ( whose birth cert you have viewed and which shows father's occ as Railway Labourer).
Isobel
-
Looks like David Snr may have been in Dundee Prison in 1871. He is described as a Hawker, age 49 , born Dumbarton. In 1861 David was given as age 40 per Scotlandspeople index ( ancestry says 49) born in Glasgow.
Isobel
-
I'm pretty sure there is only one David Hutchison/ Jane Lodge. Martha born in 1856 in Aberdeen who married in 1892 ( per the certificate you uploaded) is living with David and Jane nee Grant in 1871 ( transcribed as Hutcheon on Ancestry). They are all described as lodgers but Martha is almost certainly the same one who appears in 1861 as the 5 year old daughter of David ( a Labourer) and Jane nee Lodge ( Constitution Rd Dundee - transcribed as Hutchen on Ancestry). David is also listed on that census age 9 along with a Margaret age 7 and William age 9m ( whose birth cert you have viewed and which shows father's occ as Railway Labourer).
Isobel
Wow, that's great that you found this census record! I guess the transcription was far enough off that 'fuzzy matching' for Hutchison on SP didn't include it. I'm glad to see Margaret on there, as the only time I had seen her name was when she signed her mother's death certificate. The Margaret Lodge listed as a boarder may also help me find out more about the Lodges.
Looks like David Snr may have been in Dundee Prison in 1871. He is described as a Hawker, age 49 , born Dumbarton. In 1861 David was given as age 40 per Scotlandspeople index ( ancestry says 49) born in Glasgow.
Isobel
This definitely seems like it's likely him! I wonder about the way his occupation changes from hawker to railway labourer and back, but if it is the same person, I'm sure there is an explanation for it (regardless of the likelihood of me finding out what it was!).
So you don't think the marriage in 1851 after the birth of at least one child is anything to worry about? Or the multiple marriage dates? Researching a different line of my tree, I have seen all kinds of inconsistencies in names, but not so much with dates and occupations, so I wasn't sure how much weight to put on them.
Thanks for all of your help!
Alec
-
Martha, married 9 September 1892, father listed as Railway S??? (sorry, can't make the second word out)
David, married 24 July 1905, father listed as Railway S???man (still can't make out second word, possibly 'serviceman')
Surfaceman. A very common occupation - these were the men who walked the lines looking for flaws and checking that the lines and sleepers were lying correctly.
-
Hi All,
I'm new to Roots Chat but have been fascinated by your discussion on David Hutchison and Jane Lodge. I have many of the same documents as they are my 2nd Great Grandparents. I am descended from David Hutchison (Jnr) and Elizabeth Hyland, who had 2 sons, Richard and David. I would be interested to know if anyone has traced the death record for David Hutchison (Senior)? I have only seen Jane's death cert from 1870. It does seem unusual that David was a Potter and Railway Surfaceman, maybe a Potter by trade but not much money to be made from it as the industrial revolution progressed? Also, could I ask if the great grandchild of Martha Hutchison (b 1875) who began this topic; is descended from her marriage of Patrick Keenan or John Davidson? My grandfather Richard remembered his elder sister fondly and named one of his daughters Mary, after Martha. Thanks again for your information and discussion.
-
Hi All,
I'm new to Roots Chat but have been fascinated by your discussion on David Hutchison and Jane Lodge. I have many of the same documents as they are my 2nd Great Grandparents. I am descended from David Hutchison (Jnr) and Elizabeth Hyland, who had 2 sons, Richard and David. I would be interested to know if anyone has traced the death record for David Hutchison (Senior)? I have only seen Jane's death cert from 1870. It does seem unusual that David was a Potter and Railway Surfaceman, maybe a Potter by trade but not much money to be made from it as the industrial revolution progressed?
Welcome! I don't have much information on the elder David Hutchison, but I haven't made an extremely thorough go of it yet. I'm still confused by some of the info I've found on David junior, so I haven't moved past him yet.
Also, could I ask if the great grandchild of Martha Hutchison (b 1875) who began this topic; is descended from her marriage of Patrick Keenan or John Davidson? My grandfather Richard remembered his elder sister fondly and named one of his daughters Mary, after Martha. Thanks again for your information and discussion.
I'm descended from the marriage of Martha Hutchison and Patrick Keenan. I would love to compare notes or trees if you're interested. If so, I can send you my email address via private message.
Thanks for posting!
Alec
-
It does seem unusual that David was a Potter and Railway Surfaceman, maybe a Potter by trade but not much money to be made from it as the industrial revolution progressed?
I don't think that is at all odd.
Bear in the mind that the majority of the railways were built in the mid-19th century, leading to a big demand for railway workers. Maybe David didn't much like being a potter, and/or his business was declining because hand-made pottery was being supplanted by much cheaper factory-made china and crockery. It would be quite credible for him to change careers to one that offered far better job security and probably better pay than the uncertain returns from hawking.
It's a bit like the late 20th century, when people from all walks of life in the Aberdeen area changed career to work in the oil industry.
-
Thanks for the responses. Yes Alec, I would be happy to share trees or any information that may help each other. I have a reasonable amount of info on David Jnr, I don't have so much on the wider family, I keep hitting dead ends. Having finally made contact with another Hutchison descendent I'm motivated to start searching again. Kind regards, Beccy.