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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: warwickconway on Thursday 04 January 18 00:35 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am currently researching my ancestor David Morgan, who according to several census records (1881, 1891 and 1901) was born in 1852 in Stoke Lacy.
I have had no luck in finding a birth listed, his presence on 1861 or 1871 census or a marriage to Mary Ann Griffiths (presumably before 1881) with whom he had a daughter Agnes in 1885.
He later married Emily Bathsheba Knight in 1891 after the death of Mary Ann. He died in 1911.
Any help would be appreciated as I can't access hard copy resources living in Australia.
Thanks
Warwick
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There is this marriage...
David Morgan m Lucy Ann Griffiths. 1873, Kington, Herefordshire.
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The birth registration for Agnes Morgan with mother's maiden name Griffiths in Aston district is Jun qtr 1883 rather than 1885. Do you have that certificate to confirm it is the correct Agnes?
Have you traced the parentage of the "niece" Nora J Rogers, 10 b Hereford, who is with the couple in 1881? Birth reg as Norah Jane Rogers mmn Griffiths, Sep qtr 1871 Hereford and Dore.
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The birth registration for Agnes Morgan with mother's maiden name Griffiths in Aston district is Jun qtr 1883 rather than 1885. Do you have that certificate to confirm it is the correct Agnes?
Have you traced the parentage of the "niece" Nora J Rogers, 10 b Hereford, who is with the couple in 1881? Birth reg as Norah Jane Rogers mmn Griffiths, Sep qtr 1871 Hereford and Dore.
There is another Agnes born 1885 herefordshire...
MORGAN, AGNES mmn BATTOM
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in WEOBLEY Volume 06A Page 521
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Here is the marriage...
David Morgan m Mary A Griffiths. 1913, Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales. 11A 2423
The date seems strange.
Forget that theres so many David Morgan's marrying Mary A Griffiths
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Norah Jane Rogers, her mother was probably Mary Ann's sister.
Sarah GRIFFITHS m William Rogers 1869 Hereford.
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David MORGAN m Mary Ann Griffiths. 1882, Merthyr Tydfil 11a 735
Think you will have to get marriage cert. to find Davids father's name.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. After speaking to several relatives, I confirmed Agnes birth took place 24th April 1883 in Aston, sorry for the confusion. Someone also had a copy of the later marriage of David to Emily Bathsheba Knight on 24th October 1891. His father is listed as Thomas Morgan, a gardener. He is not listed as being deceased on the certificate.
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Who was Mary Ann's father on the marriage certificate please, and who were the witnesses?
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I don’t have a copy of the marriage certificate of Mary Ann Griffiths and David Morgan. I only have the marriage certificate of the second marriage to Emily, this was gave me David’s father’s name.
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Oh sorry. I see you did say that.
The reason I ask is because in Talachddu in 1861 there is a Maryanne Griffiths, 5, daughter of David Griffiths. This is consistent with your Mary Ann's birthplace as claimed in a later census.
At the next address on the census sheet is a David Morgan, 9, son of Thomas, a farm labourer - leading me to wonder whether the two might have been neighbours in childhood. It would not of course explain where Stoke Lacy comes into it, and farm labourer is not a perfect match for gardener - but a market gardener could have been described as either.
Obviously these are common names in the region. I'd suggest the 1882 certificate would be well worth the £9.25.
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I was running on the same lines as you, avm228, but then on the 1881 census David Morgan bn Talchddu is in Lewisham, so is probably not the same person.
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From what I can recall (I don’t have the census in front of me) when I looked on the 1881 census Mary Ann and David were already married. If so, the Merthyr marriage may be inaccurate as it is too late.
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From what I can recall (I don’t have the census in front of me) when I looked on the 1881 census Mary Ann and David were already married. If so, the Merthyr marriage may be inaccurate as it is too late.
That's why you need the certificate- but just because they said they were married doesn't mean they actually were.
Mind you, they were already settled in Aston by 1881, so Merthyr is not an obvious location for a later marriage - especially as neither seems to have been from Merthyr.
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I was running on the same lines as you, avm228, but then on the 1881 census David Morgan bn Talchddu is in Lewisham, so is probably not the same person.
Ah. Shame! I must say the Stoke Lacy bit is mysterious indeed.
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I was running on the same lines as you, avm228, but then on the 1881 census David Morgan bn Talchddu is in Lewisham, so is probably not the same person.
Ah. Shame! I must say the Stoke Lacy bit is mysterious indeed.
Maybe I should skip a generation and try to work back from Thomas Morgan the gardener. If his son David was born approximately 1852 near Stoke Lacy, maybe Thomas Morgan was in the area in 1851.
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I live a few miles from Stoke Lacy. It's such a small village I wonder why David would consistently list this as his birthplace unless he was born/lived there at some point. I have tried following other David's born about the same time in the area with no success so far. I can't see an obvious Thomas Morgan living in the Reg Disricts of Bromyard or Leominster in the 1851 census either
I notice that when David died in 1911 probate was granted to his wife and a James Wiggett assistant foreman. Do you know who James Wiggett was and whether he might have been a relative??
Kay
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From what I can recall (I don’t have the census in front of me) when I looked on the 1881 census Mary Ann and David were already married. If so, the Merthyr marriage may be inaccurate as it is too late.
I would'nt rule it out just yet, on the '81 and '91 census's she says she was born Brecknockshire, Wales , here are 2 possible births...
Mary Ann Griffiths, 1855, Crickhowell, Brecknockshire. 11B 118
Mary Ann Griffiths, 1855, Brecknock, Brecknockshire. 11B 109
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I live a few miles from Stoke Lacy. It's such a small village I wonder why David would consistently list this as his birthplace unless he was born/lived there at some point. I have tried following other David's born about the same time in the area with no success so far. I can't see an obvious Thomas Morgan living in the Reg Disricts of Bromyard or Leominster in the 1851 census either
I notice that when David died in 1911 probate was granted to his wife and a James Wiggett assistant foreman. Do you know who James Wiggett was and whether he might have been a relative??
Kay
Sorry Kay, I don’t know who that is. He could possibly have been associated with his second wife, Emily. I’m not sure. Thanks for looking at neighbouring districts. The Morgan line does seem to be a real mystery.
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Bromyard isn't a neighbouring district - it is the actual registration district covering Stoke Lacy, where David's birth ought to have been registered had he been born there.
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Bromyard isn't a neighbouring district - it is the actual registration district covering Stoke Lacy, where David's birth ought to have been registered had he been born there.
If he was born there, I'm inclined to go with your theory about Talchddu.
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I've been trying to investigate a famous Morgan that was born in Stoke Lacy to see if there is a possible connection with David, so far I have'nt been able to make that connection.
Henry Frederick Stanley Morgan. ( founder of the Morgan Motor Company ).
born 1881, Moreton Jeffries Rectory, Stoke Lacy, his father was rector there, Henry George Morgan, born 1852,Stoke Lacy , died 1836, Bromyard, Herefordshire. His father was Rev. Henry Morgan born c1822, died 1887.
These time frames would fit with Davids father, Thomas.