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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: auntie2014 on Thursday 04 January 18 21:41 GMT (UK)
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This is a snippet from an 1863 Gloucester Massachusetts death record for Catherine (Byrne) Duffy that lists the names and birthplace of her parents. Catherine is originally from Westmeath. I can’t determine what is her mother’s maiden name? To me, it looks like Grosler, but I can’t find any records with that name.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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It looks like Grosler to me, too.
Putting the word into Google, it comes up with an Ingrid Grosler on a social media site, so it is a surname. Origin?
Dawn M
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I found some trees on ancestry with the Grosler surname but they all have German origins. I was expecting Irish or English. Thank you Dawn!
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That was I think it says too...maybe you could try the alternative spelling of Grossly.
Carol
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After a bit of googling around, I don't envy your task.
If your Grosler is of German/Austrian/Swiss origin there could be numerous variations to check out. It may be one of many, many variants originating as a name given to a big person: “Gross”, “Gros” or “Grose”. The name apparently became so common (like “Schmidt”) that people were encouraged to add suffixes (e.g. “Grossman”, meaning “big man”; Grossbauer” (“big farmer”); and “Grosslicht” (“goodlight”); and many, many others.
To further complicate matters, there are also (mis)spelling variations that add an “o” (“Groosler” etc) and ones that drop the “r” (like “Goos” and “Goss”) with and without suffixes like “man” and “ler”. (While “Gross” and “Goss” have completely different origins, because of spelling and pronunciation variables you end up with crossovers.) I’ve also seen “Von Grossler” (plus variants).
Numerous Austrian spelling variations (Grießler, Griessler, Grassler, Graßler, Grössler, Grossler, Griesler, Grässler, Gressler, Großler, Grasler, Greßler, Gräßler, Grissler and Grösler) are given on this site:
http://namenskarten.lima-city.at/austria/Größler/ (http://namenskarten.lima-city.at/austria/Größler/)
Perhaps searches using wildcards like *Gr*sl* or *G*sl* will capture many of the variants.
Good luck!
Peter
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This is a snippet from an 1863 Gloucester Massachusetts death record for Catherine (Byrne) Duffy that lists the names and birthplace of her parents. Catherine is originally from Westmeath. I can’t determine what is her mother’s maiden name? To me, it looks like Grosler, but I can’t find any records with that name.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
On FS there was a John Byrne born in Westmeath
Name John Byrne
Event Type Pension
Event Year Range 1760-1913
Event Place United Kingdom
Birthplace Westmeath
Birth Year (Estimated) 1789
From United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records and theses are on Find my past. Some records are quite full and perhaps this John is a relation and being Army records they may have recorded the mother's name more clearly.
The other idea is to find her marriage certificate as these generally were recorded by the people themselves and they would have usually got it right!
ETA Just now wondering if you would confirm which is her maiden surname
Byrne/Burns & variations or Duffy
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I have noted that the original of the death certificate has the MS as Burns.
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familysearch.org has the record
Name Catherine Burns Duffy
Event Type Death
Event Date 28 Oct 1863
Event Place Gloucester, Massachusetts
Gender Female
Age 65
Marital Status Widowed
Birthplace Ireland
Birth Year (Estimated) 1798
Father's Name Matthew
Father's Birthplace Ireland
Mother's Name Bridget Grosler
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I have the parish register entry for her marriage, her maiden name was Byrne.
Her father was Matthew Byrne and her mom was Bridget G?? She married a man named Thomas Duffy.
I never thought about looking through records from England. That is another source that I need to try.
It is funny that the death records show her estimated age to be 65 (born in 1798). Yet her gravestone says she was 74, which means she could have been born in 1789. The information must have been reported by 2 different people.
Thank you all for your help.
Auntie
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Where and when did Catherine marry?
When did she emigrate?
Do you know if she had brothers or sisters?
have you looked at any of their records to see if they have a clue as to the maiden name?
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Where and when did Catherine marry?
When did she emigrate?
Do you know if she had brothers or sisters?
have you looked at any of their records to see if they have a clue as to the maiden name?
Done some searching, and from an online tree in FS (submitted January 2017) she appears to have married in Mullingar Westmeath in June 1822 to Thomas Duffy
These are the possible children
Patrick duffy born 6/8/ 1832 married Mary Fitzpatrick in Milltown Westmeath in 1852 died in Mass 1880
Maria M Duffy later Galvin
Bridget Duffy married Daniel McPhee and later Winchester
Julia Duffy 1839 -1879 later Bowie married in Mass
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Now looking in Westmeath
In 1796 list of flax growers in Co Westmeath there is a
Matthias Byrne from Portloman. This is an unusual spelling for Ireland, actually Matthew is not all that common even with the usual (Eng) spelling. It is a continental spelling and also a saint's spelling.
In Griffiths Valuation in the period 1848-1864 there are two Matthew Byrnes - one at Glascarn Townland Mullingar and the other at Piercefield T/L Portnashangan
Just pondering if the surname could be
Crowther
Growther
Grothers
Grothier
Cruthers
I will do some more searching tomorrow.
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Yes, she married Thomas Duffy in June of 1822. She had four children: Bridget, Maria, Julia and Patrick. I haven’t been able to determine when she emigrated, or if she came with her husband, or as a widow. (the family tree that you found might be mine. :))
I think you might be on to something with Matthias Byrne from Portloman. I just found a 1786 church marriage record in Mullingar parish for “Mathew Burn and Bridget Galagher”. I wonder if someone in Gloucester could have misinterpreted what they were told.
I am looking through birth records now and have found four children of the Burn/Galagher marriage. None of them named Catherine, but the births are fairly widely spaced so there could be some missing.
Regards
Auntie
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Yes, she married Thomas Duffy in June of 1822. She had four children: Bridget, Maria, Julia and Patrick. I haven’t been able to determine when she emigrated, or if she came with her husband, or as a widow. (the family tree that you found might be mine. :))
I think you might be on to something with Matthias Byrne from Portloman. I just found a 1786 church marriage record in Mullingar parish for “Mathew Burn and Bridget Galagher”. I wonder if someone in Gloucester could have misinterpreted what they were told.
I am looking through birth records now and have found four children of the Burn/Galagher marriage. None of them named Catherine, but the births are fairly widely spaced so there could be some missing.
Regards
Auntie
Great. I am wondering if there might be earlier children of Thomas and Bridget. Patrick seems to have been born around 1832. I found some other pre 1832 children Alice 5/8/1826 and Martha 16/3/1829 and a John born around 1826. ETA not saying that these are their children but there is a 10 year gap between marriage and Patrick's birth-date.
I will keep looking.
PS Quite usual for people writing down records to misinterpret what they have heard. An Irish accent heard by an official with say German speaking parents may hear some thing completely different from an official with Irish forebears.