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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: 85jbk on Saturday 06 January 18 03:23 GMT (UK)
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Good Morning
Many years I have spent researching and digging looking to "Find Emily's Story" as such I have formed my own findings much from the help of both documents,certificates, professional researchers, local researchers, however
I wish to request opinions of fellow researchers regarding a revisit on my research of my great
grandmother Emily Hawkes.
The sole objective is to find that PROVEN paper link to her parents! John WRIGHT her Father and Unknown Mother.
To date this remains outstanding.
As I have posted on here previously about Emily I request that all that be kept separate so as not to influence the opinions on this thread please.
I am "reworking the factual documents" so I can re access the research for my great grandmother Emily Hawkes.
This is where I am hoping your valuable comments may come into helping me find a way through to the answers I seek.
Please see the attached pdf
Regards
Jill
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When and Where Married: 20 August 1913, Roma, Queensland
Jill where exactly were they married eg church, manse, rectory, private residence?
Cando
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Can you expand your notes to include all the information from the NSW birth certificates.....mothers age....marriage details.......date and place of birth....date and place of registration.
Is this your family?
Wright Alfred : SERN 2017 : POB Nyngan NSW : POE Brisbane QLD : NOK Hawk Thomas
(NOK uncle Thomas HAWKE, St Georges QLD). Alfred KIA.
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Hi Cando
from the marriage certificate:
Reg#:13/ 002257
When and Where Married: 20 August 1913, Roma, Queensland
Name and Surname Bridegroom: Thomas HAWKES
Bride: Emily WRIGHT
Condition: Bridegroom: Batchelor
Bride: Spinster
Birthplace: Bridegroom: Yass, New South Wales
Bride: New South Wales
Profession, Trade or
Occupation: Bridegroom: Contractor
Bride: Domestic Duties
Age: Bridegroom: 52 years
Bride: 44 years
Usual Place
of Residence: Bridegroom: Taroom
Bride: Roma
Parents:
Fathers Name
and Surname: Bridegroom: John Hawkes
Bride: John Wright
Mothers Name
& maiden surname: Bridegroom: LEFT BLANK
Bride: LEFT BLANK
Fathers Rank
or Profession: Bridegroom: LEFT BLANK
Bride: Stockman
Married at St.Paul's Rectory, Roma, Queensland by Officiating Minister or registrar, Arthur E Henry.
In the presence of Vincent Fossey and F. Campbell. According to the rites of the Church of England.
The marriage was registered on 13th September 1913.
As their were areas of details left out on the marriage certificate, I wanted to follow up that this was
not left of the original church records so followed up with that at the church in Roma.
There were no details that were forth coming only change was the fact that the marriage parties had
signed in the incorrect places ! Does this make the marriage legal?
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Wivenhoe
Regarding all information on the births for children, I did all that in my attachment, so should see the details there, or was there something in particular you were suggesting?
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These are the details I would like to see from the NSW records that you have -
".mothers age....marriage details.......date and place of birth....date and place of registration."
and I cannot see this on your attached file.
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Wivenhoe
From the attachment: and added a few extra dates
Following on from this I applied to the NSW BDM for copies of the entries of the registrations of the
children's births. At first I was denied as they were now re registered under Qld BDM but then as I
pressed further and requested for History purposes I found further information not recorded on the
Queensland documents.
From Emily's first born child, Thomas Wright/Hawkes New South Wales birth certificate, Reg#24762,
born 25th June 1902, at Nyngan. Father listed as Thomas Hawke, Labourer, 40years,born at Sydney,
New South Wales. Date and place of Marriage: 26th April 1901, Cobar, N.S.W. No previous issue.
Mothers name listed is Emily Wright, 33 years old, born at Duck Creek near Nyngan, N.S.W. The
Informant is herself, Emily Wright, Mother of Duck Creek.
The Witness or Nurse is Mrs.Lawler
Registered 14th July 1902 at Nyngan, New South Wales.
This was quite a moment as Emily is giving the information herself and was the first time I had
discovered this information.
I followed up on the marriage but there is NO recorded marriage. followed up at both the
courthouse in Nyngan and NSW BDM.
The second child Emily Wright/Hawkes NSW BDM born 26 August 1904 also revealed a little more, again Emily being the
informant herself. This time she gives her birthplace as Duck Creek, Cannonbar, NSW. Emily is living
at Cobar and is 36 years old. A Mrs Williams is the Nurse or witness.
Registered 8th September 1904
Emily's third child, James also born at Cobar, 11th April 1907. Emily also shows herself as the informant and again giving
herself as being born at Duck Creek, Near Cannonbar. 38 years old. Now living at Meryula near Cobar.
The Nurse or Informant again is Mrs. Williams.
Registered 14th May 1907
Just as a note, on the original NSW certificates the fact that under issue; none of the children are
listed on each others birth certificates.
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Hi
Signing in "wrong" spot does not invalidate a marriage contract.
JM :)
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Older siblings NOT listed on NSW b.c. .... with their mum as informer suggests she did not provide the registrar / deputy registrar with details of her marriage to the father .
JM
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majm
thank you for confirming my note of invalidity of marriage
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majm
just as a note also the children were younger siblings, and what are your thoughts on why perhaps this was not given up as information?
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Hi
Signing in "wrong" spot does not invalidate a marriage contract.
JM :)
Please note that I confirm it is NOT invalidated if signed on "wrong" spot.majm
thank you for confirming my note of invalidity of marriage
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majm
just as a note also the children were younger siblings, and what are your thoughts on why perhaps this was not given up as information?
please note that younger siblings details cannot be recorded on a birth cert because they had not yet been born when their older siblings births were being registered.
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I would have though as each child is born, the siblings are added
therfore when Thomas was born, well obviously first born no siblings
Emily born, her birth certificate would have shown Thomas as an older sibling and first born followed by James birth certificate showing both Thomas and Emily as siblings.
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Surnames do NOT become a feature of NSW birth certs until about 1969. INDEX uses the surname that baby's mum was usually known by at time baby's birth was registered. That can be her married surname, OR surname of her then current partner or ANY name she chose to use. INDEXED surname does NOT mean that is the actual dad's name.
JM (on kindle reader so apologies for directness on replies)
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I would have though as each child is born, the siblings are added
therfore when Thomas was born, well obviously first born no siblings
Emily born, her birth certificate would have shown Thomas as an older sibling and first born followed by James birth certificate showing both Thomas and Emily as siblings.
Sblings born in wedlock and of SAME marriage in that era. Have you sought their baptisms ....
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majm
oh no have not followed through with their baptism certificates, one to track down. The children may have been baptised at the time of their parents marriage in Roma, Qld.1913
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Any suggestions on Emily's parents?
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There are a number of public trees with photos of Emily WRIGHT 1868-1960 and her father John 'Jack' WRIGHT. The trees shows that John "Jack"WRIGHT's mother was an Aborigine and the people in the photos indicate that this could be the case. One of your previous threads mentioned that Emily may have been of Maori descent.
Are any of the trees yours?
There are a number of public trees for John "Jack" WRIGHTand his wife Mary Ann POTTER.
These are claimed to be their children - Mary 1861–1904, Louisa 1863-1899, Emily 1868-1960, Mary A 1869-1904, Henrietta "Ettie" 1874-, Walter 1878-1918, Louisa 1880–1938, Janet 1884-1947,
According to the trees John died 27 Feb 1936 at Trangie.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
WRIGHT John Four Mile Road, Trangie Labourer.
Death
2688/1936
WRIGHT John 105 years Trangie
District Narromine
I found these obituaries and and they show conflicting info. Probably a bit local folk lore as well. The local registrar has his age as 105 which may have been taken from John/Jack's pension record.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99601632
Trangie News and Narromine Advocate 28 Feb 1936.
118 Years Old.
TRANGIE RESIDENT DIES.
Daughter Aged 94.
Claimed to be 118 years of age, an old-age pensioner, named Jack Wright, passed away yesterday morning at Trangie.
There is no authentic record of this remarkable old age, but it has been established that a daughter aged 94 is living at Newcastle.
Jack Wright, who has been drawing the pension ever since it was made available 26 years ago he was one of the first to be enrolled retained remarkable use of his faculties.
Until a year ago he was active and was a familiar sight in Trangie. It is only comparatively recently that his sight and hearing were almost perfect. Only five years ago he was
more active than many men but half his age.
His father lived at Orange where he was married twice, rearing a family by each wife.
Jack Wright was his first son by his first wife, who was an aboriginal, and was born at
Windsor.
He came to Trangie and was remembered by the fathers of present residents as an old man. In those days he was a hard worker and a hard drinker, too. In this connection he often told the story of how a bush publican could not cash one of his cheques, claiming that he had insuffcient change. Jack set about reducing the amount by buying drinks. Each time be did so he asked if the publican had enough and was told that he had better 'shout' again.
He did so until at last, becoming disgusted, he took the cheque and chewed it up. After that he never drank again.
Tobacco, often cited as one of the curses of civilisation, was his chief consolation, and he used it for smoking and chewing.
During his lifetime he saw many different things come to pass and many were the tales be used to tell.
An effort is being made to secure these for publication.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article162514133
Mudgee Guardian and North Western Representative 2 Mar1936
DIED AT 118
Hardy Old-timer
BELIEVED to have been 118 years of age, Jack Wright a Trangie pensioner, and a veteran of the old school, has died.
Born in Windsor, he was the father of 11 children, most of whom predeceased him, but also died of old age.
He was partial to smoking and chewing tobacco, and gave up drinking only because a bush publican would not cash his cheque until he had spent most of it.
He is survived by a daughter, aged 94, who lives at Newcastle
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article131590083
The Dubbo Liberal and Macquarie Advocate 1936
Mr. Jack Wright died at Trangie on Thursday. His estimated age is be tween 112 and 118 years. About four years ago, it is said that he received a certificate giving his age at 114, but
this has not been found. He has been drawing the pension ever since it started, about 26 years ago. He had a family of eleven, but has outlived most of them. One of the surviving daughters, who is living at Newcastle, is 92 years of age. Deceased has been living in Trangie as long as anyone can remember.
Up till a couple of years ago, when his sight became impaired,he was very active, and until five years ago could step dance. About 40 years ago he was a heavy drinker, and right up to his death he was very fond of tobacco. His mother was a full blooded aborigine and his father a white man.
Recently lie had been under treatment at the hands of Dr. Maclean for heart trouble, and this was the cause of his death. After eating a good meal, he went to bed in the best of spirits and passed away in his sleep.
The funeral took place yesterday morning, the police being in charge.
There are similar reports in various NSW newspapers.
Cando
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I confirm that as per the 1870 NSW Electoral Roll for THE BOGAN, that Duck Creek was located within the NSW Police District of Canonbar. For example:
NSW ER 1870 THE BOGAN
Canonbar Police District and with mention of DUCK CREEK:
AIRY, Henry, of Colane, residence, Duck Creek
WEELER, Charles, Murrawanable, residence, Duck Creek
WETHERLY, Thomas, Colane, residence, Duck Creek
And from Greville’s 1875 PO Directory:
CANNONBAR (in Dubbo Police District)
George DAVIS, cook, Eenaweena
Mick DAVIS, stockman
NONE with surname HAWKES or variations.
John MORGAN, storekeeper, Murrawombie (I suggest this is same location as Murrawanable on the 1870 ER)
W. WRIGHT, overseer, No. 17 West Bogan
John WRIGHT, labourer, Eenaweena.
So that places a chap named John WRIGHT, and a chap named George DAVIS, both at Eenaweena in at least the mid 1870s. Now to find who else was on the pastoral station ‘Eenaweena’ to then consider where that station’s paper records may be held IF EXTANT….
Fingers crossed :)
JM
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Sands 1905 Pastoral Directory
CANONBAR
Henry CAMPBELL, Enaweena, Warren
15 horses
25 cattle
5901 sheep
NSW Electoral Roll 1902 THE DARLING,
polling at Ennaweena, 68 persons enrolled.
Henry CAMPBELL as a grazier.
NONE with surname WRIGHT.
Polling at Nyngan (JM notes that the polling place of Nyngan and the NSW BDM district of Nyngan should not be considered to be exacting same geographical territory as each other … BDM was part of the Registrar Generals Office – ie part of the Land Titles Office, and the Reg Gens and were all very active at closely protecting their own administrative areas of responsibility …. VERY !!!.)
Alfred DAVIS, Nyngan, jockey
George Thomas DAVIS, Block 387, labourer
Mary Ann DAVIS, Block 387, domestic duties
William Walter DAVIS, Jeffrey’s selection, labourer
William Watts DAVIS, Miandetta, labourer
NONE with surname HAWKES or variations
Harry POTTER, butcher, Nyngan
Francis Walter WRIGHT, Mudal, station hand
Walter WRIGHT, Nyngan, labourer
Noting Emily’s children’s births
1902 Thomas, registered Nyngan district
1904 Emily registered Cobar district
1907 James registered Cobar district
JM
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Question, if I may ....
From the NSW Birth certs for Thomas, Emily and James .... the exact wording for the informant's address, and also the exact wording for the places of birth for these three children...
Although I do think seeking baptismal records may give up first hand info rather than 'officialdom' info... :D
JM
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Just mentioning that perhaps IF there maybe a possible connection between the 1913 marriage witness F Campbell and the CAMPBELL family back at Enawenna ?
I have dug out my box of "strangers" papers for Western Land Div. And will go through it over this evening .... fingers crossed.
JM
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majm
As to your question if you may, yes and as follows
NSW Birth certificate: this was extracted 29th July 1997 by me
and exact details as follows:
Thomas Wright/Hawkes
No. 24762
Date & Place of Birth of Child: 25th June 1902, Nyngan
Name and whether present or not: Thomas, Not present
Sex: Male
Fathers Name, Occupation, age and birthplace: Thomas Hawke, Labourer,40 years, Sydney, New South Wales
Date and Place of Marriage, previous Issue: 26th April 1901, Cobar, New South Wales, Nil
Mothers Name and Maiden Name, age, and birthplace: Emily Wright, 33 years. dzuck Creek,near Nyngan, NSW.
Informant: Emily Hawke, Mother, Duck Creek
Witness:Lewis Hickey(reg) and Mrs.Lawler
Particulars of Registration: Wm L Reed, 14th July 1902, Nyngan
NSW Birth Certificate: This was extracted 17 September 1997 by Me
Emily Wright/Hawkes
No.21287/1904
1. Child:
Family Name: Wright
Christian or Given Name(s): Emily
Sex: Female
Date of Birth: 26 August 1904
Place of Birth: Cobar,NSW
2. Mother:
Family Name: Wright
Maiden Family Name: Wright
Christian or Given Name(s):Emily
Occupation: Blank
Age: 36 years
Place of Birth: Duck Creek, Cannonbar,NSW
3.Father: Completely left blank
Family Name:
Christian or given name(s):
Occupation:
Age:
Place of Birth:
4. Marriage of Parents:Completely left blank
Date of Marriage:
Place of Marriage:
5. Previous Children of Relationship: Completely Blank
6. Informant(s)
Name: E Wright
Address:Cobar
Mother
7. Registering Authority:
Name: Donald McLeod Graham, District Registrar
Address:8th September 1904
8. Endorsement(s): Not any
As a side note to this birth certificate is the following: This birth record has been superseeded by a later record. This certificate is issued at the request of Jillann Kerr. dated 17th September 1997.
I also requested a birth transcript from NSW-Joy Murrin Services and the only extra information that was revealed was The Nurse and Or Witness was a Mrs. Williams. With comments: TO THE SIDE " The Within named Emily Wright was registered as the lawful issue of Thomas Hawkes And Emily formerly Wright, 17 September 1913"-Registrar Generals Office , Brisbane, Qld, 24 September 1913.
NSW Birth certificate: this was extracted 25th September 1997 by me
and exact details as follows:
James Wright/Hawkes
No. 12471/1907
1. Child
Family Name: Wright
Christian or given name(s): James
Sex: Male
Date of Birth: 11 April 1907
Place of Birth: Cobar
2. Mother
Family Name: Wright
Maiden Family Name: Wright
Christian or Given name(s): Emily
Occupation- Left Blank
Age: 38 years
Place of Birth: Duck Creek,near Cannonbar, NSW
3. Father: Completely Blank
Family Name:
Christian or Given Name(s)
Occupation:
Age:
Place of Birth:
4.Marriage of Parents: Completely Blank
Date of Marriage:
Place of Marriage:
5.Previous Children of Relationship: Completely blank
6.Informant(s):
Name: Emily Wright, mother
Meryula near Cobar
7. Registering authority:
Name:Henry Thomas Adams,District Registrar
Date: 14 May 1907
As a side note, the re registered Qld birth for James reveals that the Witness for this birth was also Mrs.Williams. The informant on this certificate is Thomas HAwkes, Father himself.
Date:
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Thanks,
I notice on the NSW registration for James that Thomas was the informant. Does it actually state the relationship for Thomas to James?
I did not find ANY strays that could help advance your quest in my ‘strangers’ box. Very sorry
JM
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The children may have been baptised shortly after birth. It can be significant to remember that Clergy were not/are not discriminatory re the marital status of the parents, the ceremony is not about the parents. :)
JM
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cando
I am assuming the trees are at ancestry?
And Yes The Emily in these trees is My Emily Wright....but is she part of this family?? The million dollar question, how do I prove this?? There is NO Connection to date other than jumping leads. I have the death certificate of John Wright died Trangie 1936 and do believe strongly to be be Emily's Father, but again how do I prove this?? The cert has no issue naming any children, no wife, no family. Lots of reports and articles in papers and oral stories but worth do they really hold?
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majm
that registration was the QLd one not the NSW one and yes the relationship is stated as Thomas Hawkes, Father
The Children's births were registered in 1913
Many thanks for your post, I really am at a lost as to where to go next to prove these connections, is there further I can do?
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NSW ER 1902 THE DARLING
Polling in Nyngan
Lewis Evan HICKEY, of Nyngan, medical practitioner.
Catherine LAWLOR, of Nyngan, domestic duties
Philip Edmond LAWLOR, of Nyngan, butcher.
So for her firstborn delivery she sought a doctor to attend her and not just an accoucheur. Could he have been assisted by Catherine LAWLOR ( with an O) Philip Edmund Lawlor’s NSW birth registered 1879, Dubbo, with parents as Catherine and John. They were likely married at Wellington … nee CAFFREY … umm…. and perhaps Catherine knew of Emily and her parents back then?
Speculation of course … and banned from family history….
Don't do anything until I have contacted my NSW BDM retired rellie and spoken with him and reported back here. :)
JM
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1902, A Doctor in a Hospital or the house, curious... again speculation and like you say banned in family history! but so much goes on.
Rechecked the birth certificate and the spelling for Lawler is just that on the certificate but as we know variations on each ones interpretation of the spellings. So Yes could very well be as you suggest, Lawlor.
I await your contact
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In the mean time, I share (no names of course)...
right era and Western Div of NSW... my Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother and their children .... born Tilpa, Louth, Bourke etc from mid 1870s until death of Great Gran while still nursing her youngest (Dr Sides did all he could). Great Grandad was a Drover's Captain and his bachelor brother was a Shearer. The Droving Plant moved from 'there' as far as Charters Towers and beyond, to the North; as far as Abercrombie to the east; to Vic border in the south-west and to Adelaide too.... Some trips were 14 months in duration. We 'know' when Great Grandfather was home from counting back from dates of birth for the children.... And better still, although Great Grandfather was illiterate, Great Gran was excellent at bookkeeping, diary writing and general correspondence. My NSW BDM contact is a rellie, (and descendant of same western div family) and a former senior officer (retired now). Better still, despite a lifelong career at BDM he continues to enjoys family history still.
Fingers crossed there will be a penny dropping and a crack appearing soon.
JM
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thank you for sharing and didn't they live extreme lives back then, I too would assume Thomas spent much time away being a contractor and working the stations, not that I have found too much on him either,
here's to that penny dropping and that crack opening
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Polling at Nyngan (JM notes that the polling place of Nyngan and the NSW BDM district of Nyngan should not be considered to be exacting same geographical territory as each other … BDM was part of the Registrar Generals Office – ie part of the Land Titles Office, and the Reg Gens and were all very active at closely protecting their own administrative areas of responsibility …. VERY !!!.)
Alfred DAVIS, Nyngan, jockey
George Thomas DAVIS, Block 387, labourer
Mary Ann DAVIS, Block 387, domestic duties
William Walter DAVIS, Jeffrey’s selection, labourer
William Watts DAVIS, Miandetta, labourer
NONE with surname HAWKES or variations
Harry POTTER, butcher, Nyngan
Francis Walter WRIGHT, Mudal, station hand
Walter WRIGHT, Nyngan, labourer
Noting Emily’s children’s births
1902 Thomas, registered Nyngan district
1904 Emily registered Cobar district
1907 James registered Cobar district
JM
A small offering.
Trying to draw any connection between the above noted Harry POTTER and the suggested mother of Emily, Mary Ann POTTER.
A snip-
HARRY POTTER, last heard of with Belcher and Co.,
Bourke, in 1892, supposed now to be at Dubbo or Nyngan, please write to Mother, Hartley, Whitney, Hampshire, England.
The Daily Telegraph (Sydney, NSW : 1883 - 1923)
Wed 15 Mar 1899
Sue
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A small offering..thank you..therefore ruling out a connection between the noted Harry Potter and Emily.
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Looking further at both Wright listings,
Francis Walter Wright, Mudal, station hand
Walter Wright, Nyngan, Labourer
is there anything that connects these two Wright men to Emily?
I do have Walter down as a brother to Emily, but again all jumping leads. I also have the death transcription for Walter Wright. Is he or isn't he the brother?
This again is the million dollar question
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Comments
Assume all events prior to 1913 marriage in Qld actually occurred in NSW and are registered with NSW BDM, but acknowledge we have not YET found Emily’s birth, so we are attempting to find her parentage without having her birth cert at hand. We need to recognise that some current family history buffs promote themes that assume that children of mixed marriages were not registered. NSW BDM’s registers have NOT ever had a column where a baby’s ethnicity was noted as part of the civil registration process. It is quite possible that spelling variations OR failure of a rural district’s deputy reg. gen to forward a quarterly return, OR the failure of the Sydney based reg gen’s office to adequately read the long hand script on the quarterly return are MORE ACCURATE reasons for lack of any index sighting. It was NOT until after WWI that pro forma forms became available for mums/dads to complete as part of the registration of a birth. Before then, it was: Baby’s mum/dad to stand at tall/wide counter at admin section of a local court house (Clerk of Petty Sessions or Sheriff’s office part) and answer verbal questions while clerk wrote the answers in their local ledger. Ledger faced the clerk, who after recording the verbal answers then turned the ledger to face the informant and said “Sign here”. Unlikely that the clerks were instructed to say “Please carefully read my scribble entered in each column and then sign to confirm you have given me truthful information and I have recorded it truthfully”. The quarterly returns were sent by post to Reg Gen’s office in Sydney, and included in with the various documents for Deeds, Land Titles etc . Reg Gen’s office did NOT have a ‘follow up’ policy if NO quarterly return received for the BDM section.
In 1902, Emily tells us she is aged 33 years. (son Thomas’ birth cert) 1902 less 33 gives birth year of about 1869. (25 June 1902)
In 1904, Emily tells us she is aged 36 years (daughter Emily’s birth cert) 1904 less 36 gives birth year of about 1868 (26 August 1904)
In 1907, Emily tells us she is aged 38 years (son James’ birth cert) 1907 less 38 gives 1869 (11 April 1907).
You may need to look for a NSW birth, born in Autumn/Winter NSW, in 1869. Her given name may be indexed as Emily, or that may be her middle given name. Also in that era in NSW, Emma and Emily are inter-changeable.
Also, need to consider if Emily was from first or second marriage for Jack.
Jack WRIGHT died 1936, aged either 105 or 118 (or thereabouts).
1936 less 1871 is 65 years.
118 less 65 gives Jack as aged 53 when Emily was born
105 less 65 gives Jack as aged 40 when Emily was born
So
look at possible NSW BDM deaths for Emily’s mum, assuming Emily was from first marriage and that Jack was informant and gave details of the children of first marriage…
They are still thinking of more options and will phone me again on the weekend.
PS Use less is more with the online NSW BDM index. If you have the CDs they may be better option for that era. Also familysearch using Australia as location is a good option.
JM
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cando
I am assuming the trees are at ancestry?
And Yes The Emily in these trees is My Emily Wright....but is she part of this family?? The million dollar question, how do I prove this?? There is NO Connection to date other than jumping leads. I have the death certificate of John Wright died Trangie 1936 and do believe strongly to be be Emily's Father, but again how do I prove this?? The cert has no issue naming any children, no wife, no family. Lots of reports and articles in papers and oral stories but worth do they really hold?
Surely you have considered some DNA investigations
Cando
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cando
Thank you for your suggestions, DNA was considered and something we undertook a couple of years ago now,involving several family members one being my oldest living aunt and granddaughter of Emily Hawkes nee Wright.
I have to say I feel no further advanced because of it however, with my lack of understanding of it all no doubt.
With My Aunt being the closest tested and sharing 25% DNA to Emily Hawkes nee Wright the result showed her mtDNA haplogroup was S2, with only one mtDNA match in two years! This match appears to not want any contact as no reply has been forthcoming to several emails.
With My Aunts Matches at FTDNA she shows 12 as being Paternal and None as being Maternal.
FTDNA My Origins described as:
83% European
>British Isles >59%
>Southeast Europe > 13%
>West and Central Europe >8%
>Iberia >3%
&
15% Central/South Asian
>Oceania> 10%
>Central Asia >5%
and just for comparison My Heritage shows
83.6% Europe
> North and West Europe> 68.6%
>Irish, Scottish and Welsh> 46.2%
>English >5.4%
>Scandinavian> 17%
15 % South Europe
>Italian >8.3%
Iberian > 6.7%
12.3% Oceania
>Papuan>6.4%
>Melanesian> 5.9%
Asia 4.1%
South Asia 4.1%
Further exploration is needed, just grasping a better understanding is needed to work through it all.
Jill
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I thought you wanted to connect or prove that you and the other surviving descendants of John/Jack WRIGHT were related. Would need to ask another descendant of John WRIGHT but not Emily WRIGHT nee HAWKES. I'm ignorant in these matters.
My own family history is, as someone commented to me sometime ago, dead boring. So easily researched and well before so much information was online. I really wish I could find a few skeletons to upset some snooty rellies...oh did I say that :-X :-X :-X :-X So I really have no need to learn about DNA testing. I have read though that some of the more easily obtained ie cheaper tests, are not all that definitive. I may have misinterpreted the info....nothing new for me.
I'm sure someone who is an expert will come along and offer their opinion.
I think you need to take notice of some of the 'stories'. Not everyone bothered to enrol to vote and as you have discovered, not everyone bothered to register their children's births. Often it was the tyranny of distance from a local bdm registrar and often it is was ignorance.
Cheers
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Yes of course this is correct however when this is the only option available at the time you run with it until more willing participants want to also test, and to actually find a willing Wright descendant, which one and who do you ask and how much funds do you spend until you have the correct one, the process of illumination. I would also be happy to actually find the birth mother as well mentioned somewhere on the records located within our record system, something I have yet to find.
I have to comment that I also began researching back when the fishe were the source and researching was only available at the LDS centre or a local group who began in a small way.
and I have to say they were good days spent looking at all the old reels as well, spending hours trying to interpret them because in parts they were almost illegible. So over these many years i have amassed many papers and records. BUT not what I want to find the most.
Well you said it right there yourself.... you might have some skeletons in the closet just by testing, many a skeleton been found by way of DNA I would think!
Cheers and thanks again for all your input always valuable
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Hi,
The retired rellies 'brains trust' is still on the case!
Some questions :
Does that DNA report give any indication of Aboriginal heritage?
If so is it earlier than Jack - who may have been son of mixed marriage..
Have you checked for official court docs either QLD or NSW clues eg probate or sequestration for Jack or Thomas...
More questions tomorrow...
JM
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majm
Hi and good to hear from you again, go the "brains trust", what would we do without these wonderful rellies who like to help out. Thank You.
As I am not a DNA champion and my knowledge is very limited and only picked up from reading on sites of other DNA posters etc
From my understanding I can say that the only way it implies any aboriginal heritage is through the % listed as Oceania. This would need to be verified
however.
The following is a snipet from an explanation from FTDNA back in 2015.
The Reference populations used for FTDNA's myOrigins don't yet include separate clusters for Aboriginal or Maori ancestry- they would most likely be included in the "Southeast Asia" cluster at present, but hopefully they'll add more detail in the future.
Also interestingly and perhaps worth noting at this stage, but again My lack of DNA knowledge is unable to confirm this. Recently published was that of Aboriginal DNA confirms Aboriginal people have a long-lasting connection to country, by lead researcher Professor Alan Cooper of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-09/dna-confirms-aboriginals-have-long-lasting-connection-to-country/8336284
If you watch the short video, it will show the map of the migration and also shows what I understand to be the different groups which are shown by different letters. Of one of these letters is the "S" group of people. My Aunts mtDNA haplogroup is S2.
Is this a connection to this group of people in the area at that time????
I tried to contact several people to try and establish more understanding on this but to date no reply.
Please find a pm regarding official doc
Regards
Jill