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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: teach3r on Saturday 06 January 18 09:52 GMT (UK)
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Good morning and thank you as always for any help that can be given.
I confidently ordered the death certs of my great grandparents only to find that I may have made a mistake somewhere.
I have checked back through what I do know. My grandparents are Kenneth William Patterson and Barbara Mary Nicholson married 9 December 1947. On their marriage cert (attached) Barbara's father is shown as Ernest Nicholson, Army officer retired, of 50 Hull Road Withernsea.
On the 1939 register I have Barbara M Nicholson living with Ethel M Nicholson and Ernest Nicholson, army pensioner. I have assumed that this is the correct Barbara living at Bellevue, Waxholme Road. She is 13 in 1939 and then 21, 8 years later when she marries so seems likely.
I have then ordered Ernest's birth and death certs based on the date given for his birth in the 1939 register. Ernest's death cert (attached) shows him as a retired cabinet maker of Bellevue, Waxholme Road (same address as 1939). In the 1911 census I have him as "Chair maker (Manf. upholsterer & cabinet maker)" and 1913 marriage cert as "chair maker" so it isn't a huge leap to see him as a cabinet maker on his death cert. Also the addresses and dates match. The witness on Ernest' death cert is his Son Stanley William Nicholson (baptism details attached)
My problem is with Ethel. On the marriage cert her maiden name is Grant. On the 1939 register her DoB is 14/03/1893. I couldn't find a death cert based on this date but I ordered one (attached)based on 14/03/1894 (exactly 1 year difference), however this states that she was a widow of Ernest Nicholson (retired gas board worker) and that her address was 48 Kirkfield Road.
As gas board worker and cabinet maker seem too far apart and there is a year difference in the birth dates do I have the same person? The different addresses on the death certs are only about a mile apart and only a few houses away from the informant Joan Kathleen Nicholson (daughter in law). I can't find any details as to who Joan married to become a Nicholson (it doesn't seem to be Stanley).
Any help identifying whether I have the correct Ethel May would be appreciated (I think that I do - it is just the cabinet maker vs gas board worker that is throwing me!), as would any help identifying who Joan Kathleen is.
Many thanks,
Nic
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Details on death certificates are reliant on the knowledge of the informant, this leaves them wide open to errors, I suggest the birth date and occupation are errors by the informant.
There is no birth registered fitting the date on Ethel's deaths certificate, but there is one in 1893 in Sculcoates that matches the 1939 Register, the mother's maiden name is Godfrey. In 1876 in Sculcoates William Grant married Mary Godfrey, this matches the family in in 1911, where William is a gardener as per the marriage certificate.
I think you have the correct death certificate, you need to try and discover the identity of Joan Kathleen Nicholson
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Both Ernest and Ethel left WILLS, I would invest in them as they should provide som answers.
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Hi
It looks like Joan Kathleen may be the Joan Kathleen Morgan who married Alan Nicholson in Eygpt in 1944 while in the services.
If so they came back to East Yorkshire and had 2 children.
Alan was born 1920 to a Mr Nicholson and formerly Miss Grant Mar 1920 at Sculcotes.
It looks like he died in Leeds Mar 1981 born 9 Feb 1920.
Ethel May Grant was born in Sculcotes June qtr 1893 mothers maiden name Godfrey.
William Grant had married Mary Godfrey in Sep 1876 there so that fights with Ethel's marriage certificate
Other children Herbert Mar 1877,Elizabeth Dec 1878,Ellen Sep 1880,William Sep 1882,George Dec 1884,Harold Dec 1886,Ruth Dec 1888, Frank Mar 1891 ,Evelyn June 1895 and Stanley Mar qtr 1901
William is a coachman /gardener born in Brocklesby Lincs in 1854 and Mary born 1858 in Melton Yorks.
The David and Gail family tree on Ancestry has photos of William and Mary.
Ernest could have changed profession and it does look as though everything else fits.It depends on how well the daughter in law Joan Kathleen knew her father in law.He would have been retired by the time she married.Did he talk about his previous profession?Did she never ask?
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you so much Jebber and Cidedrinker
Jebber: I have just ordered the wills to see what they might contain.
Ciderdrinker: Is it still possible to get a certificate even if the marriage was in Egypt?
Thanks again,
Nic
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Hi
Yes it is possible to get a marriage certificate
It's under GRO index Army marriages 1881-1995
Alan Nicholson Cairo Eygpt 1944 page 639 line 48 is the reference from FindMyPast but I'd just go with the year 1944
General Register Office
Telephone: 0300 123 1837
Text relay: 18001 0300 123 1837
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 4pm
I've not ordered them myself so if it was me i'd phone them up and ask exactly what details they need and order it that way rather than online.
Joan K
Last name Morgan
Marriage year 1944
Marriage place Cairo
Country Egypt
Spouse's first name(s) -
Spouse's last name -
Page 639
Line number 125
It's supposed to cost £9.25
Ciderdrinker
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Easy to order online - just use the Overseas Events form on GRO Online and enter all the index info found (including volume title, page no etc).
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Thanks avm
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Since the kind help on this thread, I have ordered the Will for Ernest Nicholson which has thrown up more questions than it answers!
Ernest's will contains the following: All my possessions to my son Bernard Nicholson the property known as Belle Vue, Waxholme, Withernsea, East Yorkshire to be let (not sold) the rent to be paid for his use to his mother Mrs Margaret Lavinia Dixon
I would be grateful for any help tracking down when Bernard was born and who Mrs Dixon was. Both of these names are new to me. Interestingly, Bernard is living in Paignton, Devon.
As always, thank you in advance for any help that can be given.
Nic
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A Margaret Lavinia DIXON died in Dec 1983 in Exeter, her DOB is given as 14th Sept 1900.
Possibly the lady in question?
Margaret Lavinia Hadfield was born in Sculcoates in Dec 1/4 of 1900 (fits with the date above)
and marries as below.
Marriages Sep 1922
Dixon Edward to Hadfield Sculcoates 9d 322
HADFIELD Margaret L to Dixon Sculcoates 9d 322
B N's (as per the will) birth is on FreeBMD but is in the 40's, so probably still alive.
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Thank you Carol,
So do you think I should be looking for a previous marriage between Margaret and Ernest Nicholson that led to the birth of Bernard Nicholson and assume that she divorced Ernest and then remarried hence the different surname?
Thank you for your help.
Nic
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Thank you Carol,
So do you think I should be looking for a previous marriage between Margaret and Ernest Nicholson that led to the birth of Bernard Nicholson and assume that she divorced Ernest and then remarried hence the different surname?
Thank you for your help.
Nic
I have tried looking on FreeBMD but cannot see a further marriage. My feeling is that they just had the baby during wartime and gave him his father's surname.Maybe they were both still married to their previous partners?
I did however just notice that the birth is registered under Nicholson and Dixon.
Carol
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Sounds a good bet, thank you. Bernard is Hull 1945 9d 329, mother's maiden name Hadfield. I will order a copy of the certificate. Ernest's will makes sense now!
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Hi Nic
As I mentioned in an earlier post ,it is likely that B is still alive,he's only a few years older than me!
Rootschat's rules say that anyone who has not been proved to have died must not be mentioned here.
That's why I have been a bit cryptic with saying his name.
By the way do you know that you can get a PDF for birth or death from the GRO for just £6,they email you it within about 3 days rather than the 7-10 days to send it for the full price by post.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Thank you for the head's up about naming those still alive. I wasn't aware of it but in hindsight it is a sensible rule and one that I will try to adhere to from now on.
Thanks for the info regarding the certificates. Yes, I did know about that great PDF service from the GRO although I think it is still a pilot. Much of my research is based on having the actual certificates so a few pounds saving is very welcome after having spent several hundred over the years.
Regards,
Nic