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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: aidansrest on Saturday 06 January 18 13:04 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Looking for any information on George Williams who married Mary Frances Darling in South Shields on the 24th February 1918, and their only child, Mary Theresa, was born the following year.
Mary Frances is easy to trace (her father, James Darling, was a younger sibling of Grace Darling), but of George Williams, I know nothing.
Mary Frances was still alive in 1939, living in South Shields and gave her status as 'married' but of George there is no trace.
I suspect that I will have to buy a marriage certificate, but hoped/wondered whether anyone may be able to hazard a guess as to who he might be!
Mary Frances died in South Shields in 1956, so it would seem that the family had remained in the area.
Thanks
Sue
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Hi
There are a couple of family trees on Ancestry which give him as George Willie Williams.
He could well be the George William Williams labourer Royal Navy seaman born 28th May 1892 Darlington who is on the May 29th 1919 on the Victory II.
He signed up 16 Aug 1917.
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you!
I'll check that out
Sue
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Not him either!
He is still in Darlington in 1939 and married to someone else - drat!
Sue
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Mary Frances died in South Shields in 1956
Have you got the death for her and was she a widow when she died?
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just curious only marriage that date I can see is for a May F Darling marrying a George William
Also There doesn't seem to be a brother James for Grace Darling have you any other dates for him
apologies found one James born 1846 Bamburgh
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As an aside I went to the Grace Darling museum on holiday last year. It was fascinating and had a beautiful view of the sea. Was my first visit to Northumberland and am keen to go back :)
Back to the topic! I agree the marriage entry does say May rather than Mary.
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I cant find any one George that fits we really need the marriage cert to get a fathers name and possible age...........there is one George with father Thomas and mother Elizabeth born 1881 in Durham but no proof right one
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They married at Holy Trinity Church, South Shields according to an on-line search I have just done.
If you don't mind waiting I should be able to get over to South Shields library in the next week or two and I will check to see if they have this marriage on microfilm.
If they have I will post the details on here and you can take your search on from there.
If you have a specific date of death I could also look up a possible death notice/ memorial for Mary.
Best Wishes :)
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I forgot to add that I know the names are slightly different - George William and May rather than the names in the first post. However, I will look this marriage up when I get time and hopefully, you will then be able to judge whether these are the correct people or not and take things from there. :)
At least this will save you the price of sending off for a costly marriage certificate! :)
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Good news! I have been able to find the record today at Tyne and Wear Archives on microfilm 1246:
Holy Trinity, South Shields
Entry No: 80
Marriage between George Williams and May Frances Darling - (Note this is what it says in the record. There is a very small 's' at the end of William but it is definitely there. Mary's name is written as May but she clearly signs her name as Mary below.)
His age: 37
Her age: 33
He was a 'Widower'
She was a 'Spinster'
George was a 'Labourer'
George lived at 28 Eldon Street
Mary lived at 46 1/2 Eldon Street
His Father was recorded as George Williams (deceased) Horse-dealer
Her Father was recorded as James Darling (deceased) Labourer
By Banns
Both signed as George Williams and Mary Frances Darling
Their Witnesses were Elizabeth (Burrows?) and James (I can't make this out satisfactorily but I think that someone else who can transcribe difficult writing might be able to)
Ceremony was carried out by A R Stegall
I hope this is what you are looking for and will be helpful in being able to find out more about George.
Best Wishes :)
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Thanks so, so much - that's fabulous - I'm extremely grateful!
Sue
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You are welcome Sue!
By the way I also found the baptism for their daughter at Holy Trinity:
Entry No: 1739
Mary Teresa Kirfield
Born 16 April 1919
Baptised 4 May 1919
Parents: George and May Williams (in this record Mary is once again recorded as 'May')
Abode: 46 1/2 Eldon Street
George is still recorded as 'Labourer'
Ceremony was performed by A R Stegall
Best Wishes :)
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Once more - thanks again! That's fantastic!
I now just have to find the elusive George on the census!
Sue
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His daughter appears to have an unusual third name in the baptism. I wonder if this means anything to you? I know sometimes a family name could be added on to a child's name. I wonder if 'Kirfield' was a name on either George's side or Mary's side of the family? This is definitely how it was spelled in the baptism record. However, I suppose there may be the possibility this could have been a mis-spelling in the entry and that this should have been something else, such as 'Curfield' perhaps.
I do think it might be worth investigating why their daughter might have been given this unusual name.
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Hi
Their daughter's middle name came from the Darling side of the family. I believe that Mary's mother's maiden name may have been that
Sue
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Following on from this thread....even with the information that River Tyne Lass so kindly provided, I still cannot find George prior to his marriage to Mary Darling, nor can I find him afterwards!
If he was 37 years of age in 1918 his year of birth should be c1881 and I thought with his father's name known (George Williams), and occupation (horse dealer), it would have been, if not easy, at least do able!
Sorry to ask again, but can anybody find him with his parents?
Cheers
Sue
PS Although Mary states she is married in 1939, the couple may have divorced or separated, so it is possible that he may have died prior to this point without her knowing!
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As an aside as he was a widower I wonder if it's possible to find his earlier marriage for more clues?
Might help if we knew who his wife was and they are together on a census :)
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A Mary T Williams married Samuel Glendinning on 16 April 1938 at Holy Trinity, - according to an on-line search.
I wonder if this person may have been George and Mary's daughter? If daughter married it may help to have her marriage record researched too to see if there is more information on George. This might include whether it not he was still living or deceased. This might give better information about what type of labouring work he did. Witnesses may be someone connected to George. Daughter Mary may have chosen a half sibling to be her witness.
I am on nightshifts at the moment but I think I will be able to get to the archives again the week after next if you agree it might be worth having daughter's marriage researched. Perhaps, you could let me know if the person mentioned is their daughter or if you know the name of another spouse? If anyone can find this sooner for you I am sure this would be great but if no one else can I would be happy to help with this.
Searches of local directories (such as Kelly's or Ward's) of that time period may also be helpful. If Mary is named on an address for a particular year this may indicate she was then head of the household and George had died.
Finding Mary's burial record could narrow down her date of death and then death notices and memoriams could be looked for. Death notice is very likely to reveal if husband was living or deceased. Memoriams can sometimes reveal more information too or give more clues. If Mary remained around the Eldon Street area then presuming she was buried this may have occurred at Harton Cemetery. There is a link which somebody out there probably knows about which records the names of people who have grave stones there. One researcher has taken photos of all the graves. I can't remember the link off the top of my head but hopefully someone will know and attach the link to another post.
It would be good if George 's former spouse could be found somehow.
These are just some ideas to consider. :)
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Hi
Mary Teresa Williams did indeed marry Samuel Glendenning on the 16th April 1938, and then I believe they divorced as Mary remarried in South Shields to Frederick Charles Duffield on the 3rd February 1947.
One of their daughters has asked me to look into her family history, so it is possible that she may have some of her parents documentation.
On saying that, she knew nothing of Samuel, other than he and her mother divorced. She also knew very little of her father (Frederick) - not even the name of his father.
Mary Frances Williams died in South Shields (1st district) during the December quarter of 1956 (Register 8c - Entry 471).
She indicates that she is still married on the 1939 register, but I suspect that she and George may have parted.
It would be great if you could find anymore information as I work full and am unable to get through to South Shields.
Thanks again for your continued interest!
Sue
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I will see if I can find out a bit more for you. Due to work (I also work full) this likely won't be until about another two weeks.
The second marriage appears to have taken place in a registry office judging from the codes on an on-line search. However, I hope to find the first marriage. Hopefully, more clues will be found which might be helpful in trying to nail this 'elusive George.'
Best Wishes :)
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Thanks so much...I'm extremely grateful for your help!
Sue
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Holy Trinity
Entry No: 336
16 April 1938
Mary Teresa Williams & Samuel Glendinning
There is an ink smudge over his age but this looks like 22
Her age: 19
Bachelor and Spinster
Samuel was a labourer
His residence: 28 Eldon Street
Her residence: 46 1/2 Eldon Street
His father: Thomas Glendinning - Boilerworker
Her father: George Williams - Labourer
Both signed names
Witnesses: Robert Glendinning and Janet Glendinning
By Banns
As the entry does not show 'deceased' next to George's name this may indicate he was still alive.
Best Wishes :)
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Many, many thanks.
I shall pass this on to the lady concerned, I know that she will be very grateful (as Iam) for your interest and research.
Thanks again
Sue
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Harton Cemetery
Entry: 2337 Page 94
Mary Frances Williams
Widow
Age 72
Place where death occurred: 46a Eldon Street
Buried 21 November 1956
Place of Burial: Section T Grave No: 7907
In register T 90
Best Wishes :)
PS: You are very welcome - I just saw your post after posting this one.
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Shields Daily Gazette - Tuesday November 20 1956
'WILLIAMS.- So. Shields. 46a Eldon Street on Nov. 19. aged 72 years, Mary Frances (nee Darling), dearly beloved wife of the late George. Interment Wednesday. Friends please meet at Harton Cemetery 2.45 p.m. Deeply mourned.'
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Memoriam notices
Shields Daily Gazette - November 19, 1957
'WILLIAMS.- Treasured memories of my dear mother died Nov. 19 1956. As I walk in the house and see your empty chair, I would give the world and all I owned if I could see you sitting there, for no one knows the pain or the longing to have you home again. - Always in the thoughts of her loving daughter Mary, son-in-law Fred and Grandchildren.'
WILLIAMS.- In loving memory of my dear sister Mary Frances Darling, who died Nov.19 1956. - Will never be forgotten by her loving sister Grace.
WILLIAMS. In loving memory of my dear aunt Mary who died Nov. 19 1956 - Always in the thoughts of Bella, George and family.'
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I have been on a very tight schedule today and just had time (literally as I was running late) to stick to my agenda of looking for the marriage + death notice and memoriam(s).
However, I am going to do another search for the elusive George when I can get back to the library in a few weeks. I did notice that when I was scanning through looking for Mary's burial there was a burial at that cemetery for a George Williams + third name + different address. I wonder if this could be George in hiding? Perhaps he married under a middle name? This might be why he cannot be found if he is on pre-marriage census under a different surname and if buried under a different surname.
I haven't had time to check this out further today although I would have loved to. However, in a few weeks I will look for this burial again and check out for any death notice/memoriam to see if this person may be George in hiding? However, please don't get your hopes up too much in case this all turns out to be barking up the wrong tree.
As Mary is described as his 'beloved wife' in death notice this suggests to me that when George died they may have been even if not good then perhaps reasonable terms at least. I have come across bitter splits when researching and in such cases words like these do not tend to appear.
Will post again in a few weeks. Hopefully, there may still be a chance of 'elusive George' being traced.
Best Wishes :)
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Once again, my sincere thanks!
I am handing over the family history document shortly but will add that there is a small possibility of more information.
I can't thank you enough for the help and assistance you have provided - its been invaluable.
Sue
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I hope you don't mind my asking - but I take it you are not a professional researcher? ??? It is just that I only research for family historians or those helping others voluntarily.
Obviously, I would not want to do research which someone else would profit from.
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No! I'm a library assistant! I just help people as a hobby!
Usually customers who enquire at work and we are unable to assist in our department
Sue
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Oh! That is alright then. I am reassured. :) I will get back about the elusive George in a couple of weeks.
I think library assistants are great. The local studies staff at my local library in North Shields are all fantastic. Always very helpful, knowledgeable and passionate about their work. :)
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Yes! I agree! Only cos I'm one of them!
Not in Local constantly, but love my time in there.
Once again though, thanks for your interest
Sue
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Hi Sue,
I have managed to visit the library to search for George but unfortunately the person who I thought may be him is not him. He is proving to be elusive indeed! ??? Sorry, I have been unable to find him either. :-\
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There was a George Williams born in the December quarter of 1881 in the Morpeth registration district - Mother's maiden name 'Todd'.
I wonder if there is a possibility that this could be George? It might be worth it for the lady you are helping to search Morpeth church records for a possible baptism to show names of both parents. It would be a big task but this might be worth it if this finally leads to her finding George. :)
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Hi
Thanks for all your help and advice, I will certainly pass this suggestion on to her.
Your help as been invaluable and greatly appreciated, we'll let you know if we ever solve the mystery!
Cheers
Suw
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You are welcome Sue. :)
Another, possibility which may or may not come to anything, is that a George Williams married a 'Jannet Elizabeth A Rump' at a registry office in South Shields in the December quarter of 1907. A Janet Williams died in South Shields in the September quarter of 1963.
It might be worth considering if George was not really a widower at the time of his marriage to Mary. :o
When you are facing a brick wall like this one it is often worth considering all possibilities. :)
Please do let me know if this mystery ever gets solved. :) It is quite an intrigue how someone can seemingly go missing like this. ???
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I am able, if still interested, to solve the mystery of George Williams. He was my great grandfather. I am new to rootschat. Iam willing to share all that I have about him. An interesting man. My interest is in his second family. My grandmother was his daughter from his first marriage.
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Hello
aidanset
For some reason I cannot message you direct.
I have been in contact with the lady looking for George Williams and given her all the information I have including a photograph.
I discovered him from a "different angle" but if you look up 21 Prudhoe St. North Shields in the 1939 Register that is our George.
Regards
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Mazdaman,
You will need to make one more post to send personal messages.
Welcome to Rootschat
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/223778108/elizabeth-thomasin-snowdon
Just to add for any who may have interest in the 'Darling' family history...
I am a contributor to Find A Grave and I recently found this small memorial in Section G General at Preston Cemetery, North Shields. Elizabeth Thomasin Snowdon was the niece of the famous life saver Grace Darling.