RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: MissM on Thursday 11 January 18 14:37 GMT (UK)
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Hello.
I've recently discovered a newspaper cutting from 1840 that mentions some of the Moneypennys who lived at the lock. There was a dispute over whether current resident, Rose Ann owned the house she lived in. She was the daughter of Stephen and William, her brother was living in a newer house nearby. Her father, Stephen was the son of old William who was the son of Matthew.
I wonder if anyone has any further details on the family that lived here.
I am searching for my G x 2 Matthew Moneypenny b c 1809 who I only have history for after he left Ireland. This is the first time in 30 plus years of looking, that I have found a 'Matthew' Moneypenny in any Irish records!
Any help would be appreciated!
Lynne
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Moneypenny still living very nearby (on google map).....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lb7/
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Matthew is shown on an online tree as being married to an Elizabeth Cretney who was from the Isle of Man. A tree also shows Matthew's father as James Moneypenny born 1782 Ireland-will need checking well of course.
regards.
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Moneypenny still living very nearby (on google map).....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lb7/
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Thanks Hallmark! :)
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Matthew is shown on an online tree as being married to an Elizabeth Cretney who was from the Isle of Man. A tree also shows Matthew's father as James Moneypenny born 1782 Ireland-will need checking well of course.
regards.
Thanks Paco. I have my Cretney line going back years but no father for Matthew. the Matthew whose father is James sounds like my Grandad but he (James) was born in 1852. My tree is on Ancestry. Is that where you're looking?
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Moneypenny still living very nearby (on google map).....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lb7/
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Thanks Hallmark! :)
There is a snail-mail address on link....
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http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/details.jsp?id=1700478640
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That is where the tree is with James as the father of Matthew, but it is definitely 1782 Ireland for his birth date. It actually has Jas, which is short for James.
regards.
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Thanks for the link to the Will Hallmark. Very interesting. I've saved a copy for my files. One day it will all link up!
Paco,
I've had a look at the tree but unfortunately this person has copied it off another Ancestry Tree that hasn't got any proof or verification. :(
Thought I'd finally got through my 30 year old brick wall for a minute then!
Thanks for looking. :)
Lynne
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I've had a look at the tree but unfortunately this person has copied it off another Ancestry Tree that hasn't got any proof or verification. :(
Lynne
It might be "slightly inaccurate"!! ;D
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Maybe consider a snail mail to AD with your email address in it??
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Re Ancestry, I've learned to be very cautious over the years of people who've only shared other people's trees! :D
I'll drop AD a line and see what he/she knows!
Thanks,
Lynne
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Thanks for the link to the Will Hallmark. Very interesting. I've saved a copy for my files. One day it will all link up!
Paco,
The Will is on PRONI
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=155173
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Hi! I'm new to this forum and just saw this several years' old post.
I'm a descendant of William Moneypenny, whom I believe to be the son of Stephen, the last Newry Canal lockkeeper. I'm looking for evidence that my William is or is not Stephen's son (I only have circumstantial place, time, etc. evidence), and any info on this family line. My great-great grandfather wrote an account that states his great-grandfather William was born in Maguiresbridge and left Ireland for the US after getting married.
Thanks!
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"Stephen Moneypenny became lock-keeper around 1800 and the Moneypenny family were the lock-keepers for around 85 years. Moneypenny’s Lock was the last lock before the canal entered the River Bann" It closed to navigation in 1947.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/topics/land/newrycanal2.shtml
https://discovernorthernireland.com/things-to-do/moneypennys-lock-p675221
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/weekend/walk-of-the-week-the-newry-canal-way-28788663.html says the last known commercial journey through lock was in 1936.
https://www.facebook.com/Newry.Portadown.Canal/posts/moneypennys-lock-newry-canal-number-14-lock-is-the-last-lock-as-the-canal-climbs/3393499847327242/
"The lock was originally known as 'Trueman's Lock' after a family that once lived at Brackagh House"
The BBC article and the Facebook one refer to Moneypenny’s Lock as the 14th but is clearly marked as the 15th on the 1st and 2nd edition historical OS maps 1834 & 1860 on https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-proni-historical-maps-viewer
It was is the Townland of BRACKAGH in the Parish of Kilmore (Lower Orior portion), Co Armagh and that is the 'address' any records would be under (about two miles south-east of Portadown).
Records are however scant in Ireland, no census survive for 1800's, and parish registers may or may not exist, even less are online. Some DATES would assist? The majority of Moneypennys seem to have been Protestant rather than Catholic I see pre-1864 Church of Ireland and a Presbyterian marriage?
Brackagh Townland falls into Banbridge Registration District (sub District of Tandragee) for non R.C civil marriages records 1845-63 & civil (Vital) Births, marriages & deaths 1864 onwards.
Moneypennys were also Farmers in Brackagh in the 1850-80's.
A Sarah Moneypenny, aged 80, Spinster (Lockeeper & Tole Collector) died Brackagh 13 May 1898. Others were not far away in Tandragee.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namel=Moneypenny&district=Banbridge&submit=Search
All the locations are Townland names https://www.townlands.ie/ but you need the right spelling to locate them https://www.swilson.info/db/townlanddbs.php
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The PRONI Guide to Church Registers lists their holdings on microfilm.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records
and RootsIreland is an Irish site with transcriptions of certain periods of some parishes.
http://rootsireland.ie/armagh/online-sources.php
The closest Church of Ireland church to the Lockhouse was/is Mullavilly in Kilmore Parish https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/IRL/ARM/Kilmore/MullavillyParishChurch
Note there are 3 churches in Kilmore and only the parishes with a black dates and a red tick are transcribed and online on RootsIreland. Mulavilly parish data exists from 1821 but only accessible in PRONI on microfilm (they offer a research service for a fee) or by contacting the parish https://mullavilly.armagh.anglican.org/page-9/page11.html
Parish history https://www.libraryireland.com/topog/M/Mullavilly-Lower-Orior-Armagh.php
There is a chance that the pre-1821 records are included in the mother church of St Aidan's, Kilmore, further west. If so those exist from 1789 are transcribed on RootsIreland.
The next closest Church of Ireland are Seagoe Parish Portadown, whilst records date back to 1671, they are only online from 1821 and St Mark's, Ballymore Parish, Tandragee where registers date back to 1783 but again are not available online.
Presbyterian churches existed in Ballymore/Tandragee and Seagoe/Portadown but surviving registers are likely not old enough for you.
Really the question is what year is written in the account for William's birth in Maguiresbridge as that is an entirely different area and I would be dubious about linking the two and if Maguiresbridge is correct. Maguiresbridge in Co Fermanagh is rather distant from Moneypenny's Lock.
Maguiresbridge is in the large Parish of Aghalurcher but by its border with Aghavea Parish. https://www.townlands.ie/fermanagh/magherastephana/aghalurcher/maguiresbridge/tattinderry/
Is in Lisnaskea Registration District. There is only one single Civil Registration entry for a Moneypenny in Lisnaskea: death of a Joseph aged 102 in the Workhouse 1897 (allow a wide margin for Irish ages in records) and none in adjacent Enniskillen District. It was a remoter area, more R.C. (registers of which don't start till 1835-60's) & even harder to research.
Co Armagh and Belfast city were were the surname was recorded 1850-1864 https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=Moneypenny
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Online trees indicate that this particular William was born in Maguiresbridge in 1765, and died in 1845 in Virginia, USA. A family history indicates William was married to a Mary Jane Kenny about 1790-95 in Maguiresbridge, Co. Fermanagh, but no parents are named for either. Of the known children of the couple, none were named Stephen.
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1765 is before any parish baptism registers survive for the area (see the PRONI guide) and 1795 before any marriage records so you will find no evidence in Ireland.
If the forname Stephen does not appear in subsequent generations unlikely there is any connection to Stephen the Lockeeper. Google irish naming tradition or pattern.
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Thanks for the replies, Jon and Eileen. According to a letter written by William's great-grandson, William was born in 1781 in Maguiresbridge and married Mary Jane Kenney (in Maguiresbridge) before they both immigrated to the States, arriving in 1798. One family historian suggested that Mary Jane was from Maguiresbridge, but William was not because there were no records of Moneypennys in that area at that time. From what I can gather, most of the Moneypennys were living in Armagh in the late 1700s. The Sarah Moneypenny lockkeeper is an interesting find; her location in Brackagh is between Newry and Maguiresbridge. The family was likely Protestant; there has never been a Catholic identity of which I am aware.
Online trees do suggest that William's father was Stephen Moneypenny. I visited Moneypenny's Lock in 2019. The gentlemen who generously gave me a tour (despite the place was no longer open to the public) said that Stephen had a son named William who emigrated. Yet I have not been able to find evidence that they are the same William. The family line that continued in the US named their boys Thomas and William for two hundred years, but I don't know of any Stephens.
I've exhausted the links you've provided, Jon. These sites are helpful in the search. The limitation, as you pointed out, is the timing. Any records from the US ports of arrival begin far after William and Mary Jane would have landed here. The only conclusion I can make is that I need to plan another trip for research!
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I hope you have some luck with your search for William and Stephen.
I'm going to try those links Jon posted and hope I come across my Mathew/Matthew somewhere - but I won't be holding my breath!
Lynne
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missmoneypenny
I see nothing special about Sarah's location. All the lockeepers residing in Brackagh Townland, near Portadown, would have lived at the house located beside what is now referred to as Moneypenny's Lock due to the fact they did live there for >85 years.
The canal runs between Newry & Portadown but Newry is basically irrelevent to both Brackagh and Maguiresbridge. If you were travelling from Newry you would go via Armagh City or through Monaghan Town.
One family historian suggested that Mary Jane was from Maguiresbridge, but William was not because there were no records of Moneypennys in that area at that time
As no marriage registers survive for the period before 1800 for Maguiresbridge and Aghalurcher parish for any denomination and no baptisms before 1788, and none are online, establishing if Moneypennys are recorded could only be inferred by reading the subsequent microfilm in PRONI. I do agree that subsequently there is only the one civil entry I mentioned and the surname is prevalent in Armagh. Freeholder and Name search on PRONI for the 1st half of the 1800s period also show all Moneypennys from Armagh.
I'm not sure what you would look at on a further research trip. Any marriage entries c.1790 will be minimal, listing just the names of the parties, no parents, they may say of Brackagh or they may say of Kilmore or may be just names & date so if a register existed is unlikely to lead to a breakthrough. I feel you need to discount Maguiresbridge or discount Stephen.
William was born in 1781 in Maguiresbridge and married Mary Jane Kenney (in Maguiresbridge) before they both immigrated to the States, arriving in 1798
Whilst the legal age for marriage was 12 for woman and 14 for men such young marriages were pratically unheard of. If it had been common there would have been public pressure to raise the legal minimum age of marriage earlier than 1929. The average age was 25 even in the 17th Century. In the late 1840s GROI reports indicate only 5% of males married under 21 (full age; the vast majority of those being 19-20). https://archive.org/details/op1247297-1001/page/n3/mode/2up. Mid 1880's in England GRO reports show less than 1 in 1000 males married under 18.
I suspect you are putting too much faith in ages recorded in subsequent records, people tended to underestimate their ages on census and informants on parent's deaths. I would suggest that William was more likely baptised/born in the 1770's if a register existed / entry was found.
On 1810 naturalization petition William says he arrived 1794-5. There are hundreds of trees with William Moneypenny. One of the typed documents does mention a John Moneypenny from Enniskillen, Fermanagh.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/81659093/person/36473029027/gallery?galleryPage=1
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/1653487/person/-1905779445/gallery?galleryPage=1
Many of the 415 trees https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1030/?name=william_moneypenny&count=50&keyword=fermanagh&keyword_x=1&name_x=1 show William's father as Stephen and mother as Mary Jane Nesbitt. That is a distortion of the relationships from Familysearch from a marriage after Stephen's death 1837, aged 87, as clearer when you consult the actual 1848 certificate on https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1848/09342/5382728.pdf which is for a (Farmer, not a lockeeper of Shanecrackan, Mullaghbrack).
That error has been copied and perpetuated.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/13073776/person/-125379972//facts
Barring that there no evidence I see that your William's father was 'Stephen'.
"Notes on the Irish Origin of the Moneypenny & Kenny Families of West Virginia, by David Armstrong" https://h3scpd.wildapricot.org/resources/HCPD%20Publications/HCPD%20Journals/21-Issue%201.pdf
Their 1st known son James is thought to have been born 1797 in the US.
The older research & Ancestry trees suggests they may both have been born c.1765 see images on
and https://www.geni.com/people/William-Moneypenny/6000000069302123115
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LCP2-9JG
https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/m/o/n/Chuck--Moneypenny/GENE1-0001.html
As lockeeper Stephen was born c.1750 based on the Belfast Newsletter death entry he is also too young to be father of a William born 1765-70. https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/49425:2193
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/FER/Aghalurcher
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Starting from Stephen's death 1837, aged 87 [born c.1750]. https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/49425:2193
Stephen had a son William and a daughter Rose Ann, William took over Stephen's role as Lock keeper when his father died 1837; his sister lived adjacent in the old lock house 1840.
Stephen's father was William, also Lock-keeper and Stephen took over when William died, old William had lived there for years. A New lock-house was built in the time of Stephen 1808 by the Newry Canal as the old house was dilapidated & he moved into it from the old. The roof & bits of the old house were recycled into the new but the old was repaired some 10 years later. Rose moved from new to old alter her father's death, saying it was left to her in his Will. William had lived in the old one. Moneypenny ownership was disputed, it was given rent free to old Billy Moneypenny as long as he lived etc then Widow Trueman passed to Stephen whilst the lease lasted. The dispute seems to have been about actual ownership of the garden + old house and Rose Ann lost.
William's father (Stephen's grandfather) Matthew Moneypenny had lived there before the building of the canal (1742).
Trueman's farm now in the possession of William Adams surrounded the lock-house on 3 sides with the canal on the other on the estate of the Count de Salis, Townland of Brackagh, he considered he owned the old.
This is the story & newspaper cutting referred to in the opening question on the thread by Lynne / MissM.
Newry Telegraph 11 August 1840 (2 columns same page).
The Newry Navigation Company. John Jones vs. Rose Ann Moneypenny.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl/0000998/18400811/005
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl/0000998/18400811/007
or access page using a free 3 trial views on registration to British Newspaper Archive (after that is subscription)
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1840-08-01/1840-09-01?basicsearch=moneypenny&newspapertitle=newry+telegraph
William (Junior), widower, Toll Collector, died Brackagh 11 May 1873, aged 90 [1783] https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020700/7262894.pdf at the 15th Lock mear Portadown, interred MULLAVILLY https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/1087111:2193
William's wife Rosanne, aged 75 or 78 died 15th Lock 30 Apr 1864 https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/1066937:2193 there is no civil death registration
and Rose Anne, spinster, in 1878, aged 63 [1815!] https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020524/7202380.pdf
both registered by a Sarah Moneypenny, likely the spinster aged 80 mentioned before (Lockeeper & Tole Collector) died Brackagh 13 May 1898.
and presumably his son William in 1887, aged 64 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06216/4778730.pdf he was 'of Belfast' in Belfast News-Letter 16 June 1862 when his daughter Lizzie aged 8 died at her grandfathers residence, the 15th Lock near Portadown 13 Jun 1862.
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I hope you have some luck with your search for William and Stephen.
I'm going to try those links Jon posted and hope I come across my Mathew/Matthew somewhere - but I won't be holding my breath!
Lynne
Hi Lynne,
How’s your search for Matthew going? I’ve been looking myself and can’t find anything.
I’ve seen a few family trees linking Jas and Matthew but can’t find anything else!
It does make sense if he was from Armagh/Portadown area.
Many thanks,
Lizi